Just How Fatigued Is Fatigued?

Greetings everyone!

So, I have a big question.

Can sleep apnea, on its own, left untreated or minimally treated- can it cause an extraordinarily dehabilitating fatigue?

I'm not referring to a 'sort of tired' type fatigue. I mean, can it cause such a high fatigue that you can't work, cook food, see friends or do some of the most basic of things?

Obviously the ideal is to simply treat the sleep apnea, but...CPAP compliance hasn't been working despite my efforts. (Looking to potentially try an oral appliance)

This is something I really need to know. To make sure it's just sleep apnea that's the issue and not something else going on like Chronic Fatigue Syndrome.

Could it be caused by sleep apnea? Yes

Could it be something else? Yes

It seems some people can have sleep apnea, even in some cases quite severe, and somehow not be burdened by fatigue, and yet others, with even milder causes, can be ruined by it. I think fundamentally it comes down to how much it ruins your quality of sleep, and from my observations it certainly doesnt seem that there's a direct correlation between severity and the impact on quality of sleep. You'd assume there was some correlation, but I don't feel like it's a hard and fast rule either.

So yes, logically you'd assume that IF you sleep apnea is totally ruining your quality of sleep, leaving you in a perpetually sleep deprived state, then it would be reasonable to assume that could leave you with some pretty debilatiting fatigue.

Until you've treated the sleep apnea, you can't rule it out. I would assume the general advice would be to keep going with CPAP, observe your number using sleepyhead, and once it appears you've got the SA under control AND have given your body sufficient time to catch up on sleep debt (sadly this often isn't an overnight thing), then re-evaluate.

Equally, it could be a combination of things. 50% of the fatigue might be due to SA, 50% might be a hormonal imbalance.

Have you had any blood work done? Thyroid is always a good starting point, can often present a constant fatigue and exhaustion (albeit, many things can.)

If you can, I'd look to get some blood work done whilst you contintue with CPAP, and try and cover all bases. If you've got hypothyroid for example, then no amount of CPAP is going to resolve that.

We are not doctors and so cannot possibly answer your question(s). Sleepiness (to whatever degree) is a major symptom of OSA, fatigue not necessarily. See a doctor!

You need to see your doctor and have a complete physical and mental health evaluation to rule out other potential culprits for your symptoms. You need more than just some basic labs...they need to dig deep.
Start with the basics though and then start ruling out potential culprits.

Maybe, just maybe, it is something that isn't related to OSA and cpap couldn't help even if you could/would use it religiously (which I don't think you are doing).
There's nothing that says you can't have more than one problem contributing to unwanted symptoms.

I know you have had trouble with consistent cpap usage for various reasons so your mild/moderate OSA is poorly treated but I am not so sure that OSA is the lone problem here. See a doctor and get the ball rolling for a really thorough physical and mental health evaluation.
Do it for peace of mind if nothing else.

In the meantime maybe answer some questions that you will need to know the answers to as part of the complete evaluation..

How many hours of sleep are you getting?
Are those hours of sleep fragment with many wake ups? If so, approx how many?
How much cpap used sleep are you getting?
Do you take any medications of any kind? If so, what?
You are young...late 20s if I remember correctly? Don't remember if male or female....which is it? You mentioned bobby pins at one time to help hold the mask in place so I assume female with longer hair but in today's climate...the guys have longer hair and probably have bobby pins around somewhere.
When is the last time you had a routine complete work up with the usual labs...like thyroid tests.
Have you ever had more extensive work ups...like vitamin D levels or hormone levels?
How's your sleep hygiene....take a long hard look at your sleep/bedtime routine....do you do anything that is bad sleep hygiene.
While sleep or poor sleep isn't always the lone cause of our unwanted symptoms...gotta rule it out and optimize our sleep hygiene to get it ruled out as a culprit.

I’m not sure I can answer any of your questions but I can tell you that you are not alone.

I almost can’t do anything anymore. Sometimes my house will be empty of food for days before I can find energy to go to the store. Not a day goes by that I don’t consider calling in sick to work. When I’m there I feel pretty useless. On my days off I’m typically asleep by noon. I stopped making any kind of plans a long time ago.

You, too!
See a doctor!
Please.
If you are female, you might have to push harder.
Some doctors seem to think women SHOULD feel lousy.

Kabuto wrote: ↑

Sun Jun 10, 2018 6:52 am

Greetings everyone!

So, I have a big question.

Can sleep apnea, on its own, left untreated or minimally treated- can it cause an extraordinarily dehabilitating fatigue?

I'm not referring to a 'sort of tired' type fatigue. I mean, can it cause such a high fatigue that you can't work, cook food, see friends or do some of the most basic of things?

Obviously the ideal is to simply treat the sleep apnea, but...CPAP compliance hasn't been working despite my efforts. (Looking to potentially try an oral appliance)

This is something I really need to know. To make sure it's just sleep apnea that's the issue and not something else going on like Chronic Fatigue Syndrome.

Back in my day it was just called Lazy! Chronic Fatigue to my thinking, means bed ridden. I see untreated Sleep Apnea as more of a long term health problem, kind of like Death from 1,000 cuts. Jim

chunkyfrog wrote: ↑

Sun Jun 10, 2018 11:05 am

You, too!
See a doctor!
Please.
If you are female, you might have to push harder.
Old doctors seem to think women SHOULD feel lousy.

I don't know, I was palmed off for years, a young male.. Active, eat well etc. 'Try running instead of lifting weights' - the worlds dumbest nurse practioner.

Or maybe, i'm perpetually tired and feeling off because there is actually something wrong?!

I don't know about the states, but my experience in the UK here is, they don't really want to do much unless they HAVE to. They're more than happy to write a script for anti-depressants, and ofc any complaint of feeling 'off', that's the first thing they want to look at.

It's sad, it actually makes me angry lol. I've been complaining to them for years about fatigue, they did bare minimal blood tests and left it there. Heck, even an average joe could see I was tired, people always used to tell me how tired I look. Yet a doctor never ONCE suggested they look at my sleep (I did my own home study.)

But ofc, paradoxically, if you do your own research, and then go in there - you're a hypochrondriac.

Luckily the doctor on Friday didn't really have much choice but to refer me to an ENT when I put a sleep report infront of him categorically showing 15 times an hour I was having respiratory difficulties during sleep. I think the fact he had a medical student sat in with him also, put him under pressure. He hadn't even heard of UARS or anything similar before, only sleep apnea. I almost felt like I was sat there educating him lol.

God help people that blindly rely on these doctors!! (Ofc, not all doctors are useless, I'm sure there's an abundance of really genuinely caring and knowledgable doctors out there. Sadly, I'm yet to meet one myself, but there's time yet.)

Kabuto wrote: ↑

Sun Jun 10, 2018 6:52 am

Greetings everyone!

So, I have a big question.

Can sleep apnea, on its own, left untreated or minimally treated- can it cause an extraordinarily dehabilitating fatigue?

I'm not referring to a 'sort of tired' type fatigue. I mean, can it cause such a high fatigue that you can't work, cook food, see friends or do some of the most basic of things?

I missed a fair amount of work before I got my first cpap, I was so tired in the mornings, I just couldn't drag myself in to the office.

The lower oxygen levels caused by sleep apnea have a number of affects on your body. The most noticeable is feeling very sleepy during the day, even when you are at work. The symptoms start when you get up - you feel like you've been run over by a bus. Your thinking is fuzzy, your mood is low, decision making becomes a chore.

For me, around about morning tea things picked up as my oxygen saturation levels finally got back to where they should be. But, the poor nights sleep had done it's thing and around early afternoon I was feeling tired and sleepy again. My body felt fatigued. I was ready to just lie down but work wasn't finished so I had to carry on. My memory had deteriorated to the point where I missed/forgot daily events such as scheduled meetings, duties etc. Someone would ask me to do something and unless I wrote it down the chances were that I wouldn't remember. In short, I felt like crap and operated in a similar manner.

If this sounds familiar then this is all classic OSA symptoms.

For me, xPAP changed all that - it revolutionised my life. It didn't happen overnight but with a bit of perseverance and a lot of help from this forum I've got on top of this seriously debilitating ailment.

So to answer the question stated in your thread title - VERY!

Apart from all the good answers above:
On untreated OSA, one of my main thoughts during the day was along the lines of

Oh, this asphalt looks so soft and comfortable, maybe I could curl up a bit on the side of the road and sleep for a short while.
(There's a reason they take away your driving license, at least here, if you won't follow the prescribed treatment. Luckily I didn't own a car.)
Still not sure how I got through university and the first few jobs, but needless to say I was job hopping for many years, not staying long anywhere, as people wanted to get rid of the money draining "worker" I was.
Relationship-wise, with family, friends, all of them, I got so touchy, I shouted at everybody. I remember two (poor) girlfriends who tried to kindly wake me up with breakfast in the morning... not a good idea at the time.

I immediately stopped having those nasty hypoxic headaches.
It took months to feel energized--but not feeling like crap was encouraging.