cpap.com vs dme

dataq1 · Post by **dataq1** » Mon Feb 05, 2007 12:04 pm

Hi Mattman, we've missed your input for several days.

mattman wrote: However, I think they are most likely selling below some providers costs on certain items.

Since you are in the business, and in a position to know, please tell us just what is the wholesale price of a universal hybrid mask complete with three cushions, three nasals, and headgear? My suspicion is that Cpap.com is selling with a slim margin. Since you have the access to the information, can you show me otherwise?

mattman wrote:You cant buy smart card readers." - From a DME provider this is true.

I bought my card reader and software from Cpap.com. Their sales reps insist that they are licensed DME providers.

mattman wrote:Smart card readers are for doctors only." - According to mfg policy - this is true.

If true, it's insulting. If true, who enforces this policy? Or is it more of a "guideline"?

mattman wrote:Changing your own pressure is illegal" - Going by the letter of the law and certainly from the liability standpoint of a provider this is also correct.

I can accept the notion the DMEs do not want to expose themselves to any potential liability. That's certainly different from being illegal. But if changing one's pressure is illegal, who enforces this?

Rabid1 · Post by **Rabid1** » Mon Feb 05, 2007 12:13 pm

[quote="Linda3032"]Come on Rabid - Matt does a service here of offering up the point of view from "the other side". I think we all go overboard in making bold statements that we can't back up as "true".

I for one appreciate Matt and his point of view. Sometimes we all go overboard in accusing the "evil DME" of stupidity. Of course, Jackr's DME pretty much fits the bill.

I think we all should be a little more tolerant of the opinions of others.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Mon Feb 05, 2007 12:28 pm

Rabid1 wrote:Matt,
Leave it ot you to spew more misinformation!

Either back-up the above statements or quit posting them as facts.

I know you very much are convinced I am wrong and attempting to spread lies and misinformation.

My question to you would simply be: Why?

You ask me to back my statements up. I would ask you the same. Why are you convinced I am "spewing more misinformation"?

What is it that has you so vehemently doubting me?

By the way, I will attempt to wade through literally thousands of pages of information to find the one or two sentances that back me up. However, I would also simply say this:
When you open your own business then you can choose to either heed information or not. Until it's your own neck being risked cut us some slack huh?

mattman

Goofproof · Post by **Goofproof** » Mon Feb 05, 2007 12:42 pm

I wouldn't call a "Evil DME", stupid. Anyone who can make a 200% to 400 % on his products, isn't Stupid, their customers are uniformed and stupid.

You need to realize who the people are on the forum, and where they are coming from. Be they XPAP users or DME, then take most of what the DME's are putting out, and flip it so it will be correct. Jim No smiley implied.

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dataq1 · Post by **dataq1** » Mon Feb 05, 2007 12:42 pm

Hi Matt,
I hope you weren't replying to me, in that you'd research thousands of pages to find back up.

The wholesale price should be in your book.

Cpap.com is either a licensed DME or not, this is not something I've asked you to search.

The legality of changing one's pressures is akin to my deciding to use my cpap tonight or not. It's my choice and I accept the consequenses of those actions. So if you can find a ready reference to the illegality of a client changing his own pressures, fine. Just don't spend hours and hours looking for something that, frankly, I don't think you'll find.

BUT I am really interested in the wholesale price! That should be relatively easy.
Cheers,

mattman · Post by **mattman** » Mon Feb 05, 2007 1:00 pm

dataq1 wrote:Since you are in the business, and in a position to know, please tell us just what is the wholesale price of a universal hybrid mask complete with three cushions, three nasals, and headgear? My suspicion is that Cpap.com is selling with a slim margin. Since you have the access to the information, can you show me otherwise?

Sorry, but that I won't post for fairly obvious reasons. It's not appropriate for me to be discussing specifics of either my buiness or that of anyone else be it this forums owner, yours or my neighbors Aunt Marge. I think you can agree with that.

Regarding my statement though, I don't think it's far out of line at all. It's pretty normal business practice to have loss leaders that you sell below cost to capture a customer. I do it on certain items (either by choice on cash sale items or by force due to insurance contracts) and I'm sure everyone else, this forums owner included, does the same.

mattman

dataq1 · Post by **dataq1** » Mon Feb 05, 2007 1:16 pm

Mattman:
That's the kind of answer I'd expect. Wholesale prices for automobiles are readily available, wholesale prices for carpeting, lighting fixtures, gasoline, and yes, even prescription drugs are available. Nevertheless, I'll accept your need for secrecy to support the system. (However in asking for respect for that secrecy you lay yourself wide open to the charge of price gouging, price fixing.)

Ok, some facts. Respcare (teleflex) publishes a Manufacturer's Suggested Retail Price of 209.00 for the Hybrid. Based on that FACT, it is not inconcieveble that the wholesale price is 160.00, which allows the DME a 30% profit if sold at MSRP.
What I'm trying to get to here is that if cpap.com is selling at 175.00 they are still taking a profit, although a small one. That certainly is their right.

I don't believe that they are selling at a loss, as you assert.

Sleepy Dog Lover · Post by **Sleepy Dog Lover** » Mon Feb 05, 2007 1:27 pm

Thanks for your info Mattman. So far, I have been very lucky and have one of the "good" DME's (there have to be a few ). Of course, I did everything possible to stay away from the evil Apria thanks to this forum.

From what I know of the wholesale world, your wholesale prices may have nothing at all in common with CPAP.com or anybody elses wholesale prices. You discount would mostly be based on total sales from that provider, and that obviously varies from DME to DME. I will also add that the same reasoning may be the reason behind some evil DME's to steer people towards certain products.

I'm with Linda, while I may not agree with some of Mattman's comments, I find them informative. I feel that way with other members also, especially some of the guests.

TANSTAF1 · Post by **TANSTAF1** » Mon Feb 05, 2007 3:15 pm

If you had to have a staff of hundreds to fill out all the BS paperwork that insurance company and government bureaucrats demand you'd have a better understanding of why DME's charge what they do.

It is not the DME's "fault." The system forces them to do it.

We need to eliminate the corporate tax break for health insurance and let everyone individually get the tax break and establish their own medical savings account so we will become better, thoughtful, cost-conscious consumers of medical goods and services. Hopefully this will happen before the system is reformed and we get one where we have no choice at all, the price is sky high (to support the government bureaucrats large take), and the waiting line for care goes 'round the block and through the calendar.

Vader · Post by **Vader** » Mon Feb 05, 2007 4:36 pm

TANSTAF1 wrote: It is not the DME's "fault." The system forces them to do it.

Well let's not get carried away here....

I agree that we should try to be friendly and respectful to Mattman (and for that matter, everyone) because he is after all, a pretty good sport about most the comments directed at him and his profession. But we can dance around this topic till Armageddon, and no matter what... a great deal of DME's are just plain greedy and FOS. Maybe not "all of them", you know...just like politicians, they're not "all" bad.
Many of us have had first hand, bad dealings with the bad ones, so let's not kid ourselves about this situation, maybe "the devil made 'em do it ", but greedy DME's REALLY DO EXIST.....

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Slinky · Post by **Slinky** » Mon Feb 05, 2007 5:25 pm

I'm sure due to volume alone that MattMan doesn't get anywhere near as good a wholesale price as an outfit as large as cpap.com does on any of the equipment.

And as already stated, there is the suggested retail price, doesn't mean the Seller "has" to charge that price.

I love the stickers of price on new cars. Does anyone "really" pay that sticker price. I don't think so. I'm not good at nor comfortable bargaining but I never paid full sticker price on any of the three new cars we bought. (The first was a gem, the next two were lemons, we've bought ONLY used since then and more than gotten our money's worth out of the used ones).

dataq1 · Post by **dataq1** » Mon Feb 05, 2007 8:56 pm

I really like your new avatar Slinky.
And I also agree that Mattman is a good sport for putting up with all the arrows that are shot his way. I do appreciate seeing the other point of view.
However, Mattman (and others in attempting to defend the stereotypical DME) occasionally comes up with some real outragous statements, like:

mattman wrote:"You cant buy smart card readers." - From a DME provider this is true.

Cpap.com is a DME. Cpap.com sells smart card readers. Ergo, DMEs can and do sell smart cards readers. It is their choice to sell them or not.

Mattman, I do appreciate the zeal with which you defend the business that you are in, but please don’t insult our intelligence. You destroy your credibility with incautious, bold and emphatic assertions that are just plain wrong.

mattman · Post by **mattman** » Mon Feb 05, 2007 9:23 pm

There is a world of difference between an internet retailer and a traditional brick and mortar DME.

In the realm of what you are specifically referencing here, ie buying the software, I am correct. You cannot buy the software from most traditional brick and mortar DME business.

We are under a world of contractual, supplier, local, state and federal regulations that an online retailer such as this one don't even begin to have to deal with.

Let me ask you one question in an effort to help you understand. Why do you suppose is it that this forums owners have setup all the different business entities to provide all the different services they do?

The main answer of course is that I don't know nor is it any of my damn business.
However, from being in the business I can wager a pretty educated guess. It's to avoid all the different regulations that I cannot get around. One of them being selling the software.

You can either chose to believe me or not. I can't really make you believe otherwise. Just remember that it is extremely easy for you to say what I can or cannot do something because there is nothing for you to lose if you are wrong.
I however have everything to lose. And frankly I'm not willing to risk that in cases where I know what I'm allowed to do and generally not even willing to do so in cases where it's not entirely clear.

mattman

chrisp · Post by **chrisp** » Mon Feb 05, 2007 10:14 pm

WOW , Its late and all I have time to say is........................................................................................................BEWARE of THE EVIL DME !!!!!!!!!!

:twis ted:

betty303 · Post by **betty303** » Mon Feb 05, 2007 10:50 pm

I am a newbie at this game of figuring out where to go for what equipment, how to find the best deal, what works best for what kinds of issues, what I can do to help in my own progress, etc. etc.

What mattman's comments did for me was give me valuable information about how to have better insights/skills to manuever through this game, and to whom I should talk about what kinds of things - the DME, my doctor, cpap.com, or this forum - and when I should keep my mouth closed and thoughts/questions to myself until I am dealing with the "right" player.

Thanks mattman.

Mask