From nasal pillows to full face mask

Tried my F&P 431 last night and had the following problem.

After over six years of trying to keep my mouth shut so I wouldn't leak air, the feeling of having my mouth open was too freaky for me to sleep. I think if I were using this when my nose wasn't congested and I fell asleep nose breathing and then in my sleep went to mouth breathing it wouldn't be a big deal.

Anybody else dealt with this?

JeffH

Hey Jeff,

I'm going through that now. I was using Swift nasal pillows and just went to the F & P 431 FF mask as well. It is very weird! I automatically close my mouth and then have to force myself to relax and open my mouth. It reminds me of learning how to snorkel and scuba dive a long time ago. It has gotten better (been about 9 days now?) but now I just have to learn how to adjust it properly as I still get alot of leaks. Anyway, you can still breathe through your nose with the FF mask or if you alternate nose/mouth breathing like I end up doing out of habit, it will just take a few breaths for the airflow to find the new path. I'm not ready to give it up yet, just have to keep working at it.

Good luck!!

Mary

Yep. When I switched from Swift nasal pillows to Hybrid full face mask I had to train myself to leave my mouth open. Felt horrible at first but after a few weeks it became easier. Now I associate an open mouth with feeling better the next day.

I never used a nasal mask because I am definitely a mouth breather.
With my first three FF masks I would breath through my mouth with no problem.

Now with the hybrid the chin flap seems keep my mouth shut and I only breath through my nose now.
I actually like not mouth breathing better which is just the opposite of Rooster!

Just because your using a full face mask doesn't mean you have to breath through your mouth or through your nose. Just breath whatever way is most comfortable as long as the pressure is getting in somewhere!

In my experience, the full face mask actually encourages me to open my mouth and, for me, the consequence of mouth breathing with the full face mask is that I quickly develop an absolutely terrible case of dry mouth -- lips glued to my teeth and throat so dry I can't swallow. I find myself getting out of bed at 3 o'clock in the morning for a drink of water and not being able to go back to cpap again until the following night. How do you other FF mask folks deal with the dry mouth problem?

tooly125 wrote:................................
I actually like not mouth breathing better which is just the opposite of Rooster!

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Just like you Tooly, I prefer to breathe through my nose and keep my mouth shut. The problem is the air pressure backs up in my mouth and causes blowfish cheeks which wakes me up hundreds of times per night. An ff mask was the solution; I can leave my mouth open and my cheeks will not inflate.

Someday, someone is going to invent something better than xpap!

rooster wrote:

tooly125 wrote:................................
I actually like not mouth breathing better which is just the opposite of Rooster!

.........................................

Just like you Tooly, I prefer to breathe through my nose and keep my mouth shut. The problem is the air pressure backs up in my mouth and causes blowfish cheeks which wakes me up hundreds of times per night. An ff mask was the solution; I can leave my mouth open and my cheeks will not inflate.

Someday, someone is going to invent something better than xpap!

It is better to breath through your nose, that's how humans were designed, the mouth is the backup plan. You retain more internal moisture by breathing through your nose.

Practice parking your tongue forward on the roof of you mouth, and pull suction on it. If you can train it to do that you may cure the mouthbreathing chipmunk for good. Jim

Someday, someone is going to invent something better than xpap!


research notes they are trying to figure it out - I am sure the cpap co's don't want them to though - interesting info from SLEEP journal - at least someone is trying woozle

Study Objectives:

It is well established that medical conditions such as obesity and cardiovascular disease are associated with increased levels of inflammatory biomarkers such as C-reactive protein (CRP). Prior studies have produced inconsistent results regarding the association between sleep disordered breathing (SDB) and CRP, possibly due to the confounding effects of obesity or medical comorbidity. The present study examined the association between degree of SDB and level of CRP independent of prevalent medical conditions and obesity.

Design:

Cross-sectional study.

Subjects and Setting:

University-based clinical sample referred for diagnostic polysomnography.

Measurements and Results:

The study sample consisted of 69 men (mean age 40 years; mean BMI of 31.2 kg/m2) free of prevalent medical conditions including hypertension, diabetes mellitus, and cardiovascular disease. Measurements of morning and evening CRP levels were performed along with full-montage polysomnography. Confounding due to obesity was assessed by adjustments for body mass index, waist circumference, and percent body fat. A strong association was found between degree of SDB and serum levels of CRP, with or without adjustment for age and several measures of adiposity. Between the lowest and highest quartiles of apnea-hypopnea index (AHI) the mean difference in adjusted level of CRP was 3.88 μg/ml (P < 0.001). Moreover, an independent association between serum CRP levels and nocturnal hypoxia was also observed, whereas no association was noted with parameters of sleep architecture.

Conclusions:

While more research is needed to elucidate causal pathways involving the effects of sleep-related hypoxia on low-grade systemic inflammation, the results of this study suggest that mechanisms other than adiposity per se could contribute to the inflammatory state seen in adults with SDB.

I'll relate my experience with masks and mouth breathing.
For the first year I was using a Ultra Mirage FF mask, as this is what the DME brought to my home. I had horrible dry mouth, and if I tried to keep the mouth shut got blowfish cheeks that would eventually "explode" my lips apart.
I eventually realized that the way lower portion of the UMFF mask hit my lower jaw, and with the headgear tightened the way my DME instructed me, the mask was actually forcing my lower jaw backwards toward my spine. That rearward force caused my throat to close. (In CPR training, the way you keep an airway open is to thrust the jaw away from the spine).

Also, because the mask hit me between the lower lip and the chin, the tightness of the headgear forced my mouth to be open. If I adjusted the mask a bit lower on my face, it caused my mouth to be forced closed but so much so that I had painful teeth every morning from the pressure between my upper and lower teeth.

You can imagine how well I slept with all that going on.

Then one day I met another XPAPer who showed me his FP431 mask. I tried it on and was really pleased that it looked like my chin would be supported but not held in place with the bungee cord headgear. So I got my own FP431 mask. I like that alot, I could now preferentially breath through my nose, and if necessary (nasal congestion or whatever) could take a breath through my mouth if I needed to with little effort. In short, the FP design supported my mouth from falling open as I relaxed in sleep. But alas, there's never a perfect solution... The forehead piece gave me semi-permanent marks on my forehead that would eventually develop into a bruise... I mean actual black&blue bruise. Even that I could deal with, but the way the side plastic shell would dig into my upper cheeks in the area of my cheekbone was too much. When creasing developed into redness that to actual blood and later scabs. I knew that the FP431 was not my solution.

Next I tried the Hybrid, never had tried nasal pillows before and took a while getting used to them. But I loved the way there was nothing to prevent me from wearing glasses, I didn't have anything pressing on my cheekbones, nothing pressing on my forehead, and it supported my chin from falling open during sleep.

I am going for septoplasty next week, and the doctor told me I wouldn't be able to use my hybrid, for perhaps a month. So I've gotten another FP431 and did a bit of surgery on it, reshaping the plastic shell around the cheekbones. So far that's working out well, but when I'm given clearance by the surgeon, I'm back to the Hybrid.

Anyway, that's my story ... should anyone care!
Cheers and a GOOD nite's sleep to all,

Dataq1 - I would be interested to hear how you "did surgery" on the FF mask to ease the pressure against the cheeks. How did you reshape the shell?

My UMFF small is to short/tight and the medium presses too hard against my cheeks if I get it positioned to stop the leaks out the bottom.

I keep thinking that if I could find a mask that had shaved down the shape along the cheeks, I might have something that would work better. Maybe your solution could help me.

Good luck next week.

-Betty303

dataq1 wrote:I'll relate my experience with masks and mouth breathing.
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CPAPopedia Keywords Contained In This Post (Click For Definition): mirage, DME, Nasal Pillows

Good story, thanks for sharing it.

betty303 wrote:Dataq1 - I would be interested to hear how you "did surgery" on the FF mask to ease the pressure against the cheeks. How did you reshape the shell?

Betty: I confess I've yet to figure out how to post a photograph or a diagram on this forum. It looks like I'd have to find a website to host a picture. In the meantime, if you will send me a private message with your email address I'll take a couple of pictures to show you what I did.
Thanks for the wishes of luck for next week.

Re: surgical alteration to FP 431
Betty: I used a grinder to cut away the side of the mask as indicated below.
Photo shown with the cushion removed. This didn't change the seal, but did stop the hard plastic shell from cutting into the cheek between the nose and eye.