Any of you suffer from panic disorder too?

btolman · Post by **btolman** » Sun Jan 14, 2007 7:48 pm

just curious.

Sleepless in St. Louis · Post by **Sleepless in St. Louis** » Sun Jan 14, 2007 8:18 pm

Depression and anxiety can be a common symptom of lack of proper sleep. I had issues with this and I've talked to many others as well. I used to think that depression and anxiety lead to sleep problems. But, being successfully treatred for OSA has caused my issues with this to basically disappear. I think that your mental health and sleep are closely related regardless of what causes what.

NightHawkeye · Post by **NightHawkeye** » Sun Jan 14, 2007 8:40 pm

Before starting xPAP therapy I was prone to hyperventilation when I'd wake up during the night. (Hyperventilation is associated with panic attacks.) Hasn't been a problem since starting xPAP. Funny thing about OSA is that it can easily change one's CO2 threshold. Most docs don't have a clue about this aspect of OSA though.

Anyone interested in the connection between rapid breathing, not breathing and changing one's CO2 threshold can simply google "apnea divers". These guys deliberately shift their CO2 thresholds in order to stay underwater longer.

Regards,
Bill

Sleepless in St. Louis · Post by **Sleepless in St. Louis** » Sun Jan 14, 2007 9:16 pm

I've seen you post this before and have always been intrigued by it. What I was calling panic attacks in my mind may have been hyperventilation events. Mine always seemed to happen about the same time of day but never at night. Scary, scary feeling to not be able to catch your breath for not apparent reason. I have not had one of these in the months that I've been on xpap.

JEFFB · Post by **JEFFB** » Sun Jan 14, 2007 9:36 pm

btolman wrote:just curious.

SORT OF. I HAVE TIMES THAT MY BACK PAIN GETS TO BE SEVERE ENOUGH THAT I HAVE TO GET UP FROM MY WORK AREA AND DO SOME EXERCISES I CAN USE. THE FEELING IS VERY INTENSE AND CANNOT BE IGNORED.

btolman · Post by **btolman** » Sun Jan 14, 2007 11:13 pm

no, mine is panic disorder, I have had no attacks under cpap, but more frequent ones in the daytime.

Maybe its stress.

I sleep great, now!

WillSucceed · Post by **WillSucceed** » Mon Jan 15, 2007 6:54 am

btolman:
Panic disorder, untreated, always disrupts sleep. Patients with panic d/o describe episodes of waking up at night, sitting bolt upright in bed, gasping for breath, heart racing, often sweating, feeling a sense of overwhelming "what is happening to me?"
These feelings tend to subside fairly quickly but can occur again during sleep. These feelings can also happen during the day when awake.

Once treated, most often with a selective seratonin reuptake inhibitor (SSRI) like Prosac, Paxil, etc., patients can get amazing relief from symptoms. The panic d/o is not cured by this, just treated such that they symptoms don't disrupt the person's life.

NightHawkeye · Post by **NightHawkeye** » Mon Jan 15, 2007 8:11 am

WillSucceed wrote:btolman:
Panic disorder, untreated, always disrupts sleep. Patients with panic d/o describe episodes of waking up at night, sitting bolt upright in bed, gasping for breath, heart racing, often sweating, feeling a sense of overwhelming "what is happening to me?"

. . .

Once treated, most often with a selective seratonin reuptake inhibitor (SSRI) like Prosac, Paxil, etc., patients can get amazing relief from symptoms. The panic d/o is not cured by this, just treated such that they symptoms don't disrupt the person's life.

Hmm . . ., I'd always assumed that legitimate panic attacks, not associated with OSA, actually existed. Reading this description though makes me wonder if all panic attacks aren't related to OSA and the shift in CO2 threshold it can cause.

I wouldn't be a bit surprised to see, in another ten or twenty years, the New England Journal of Medicine publishing the results of a distinguished study showing a high correlation between OSA and panic attacks. (sigh . . .)

But, what the heck do I really know. I certainly don't have the esteemed medical education of those who know far more than I do. I've merely lived through the experience, and happened upon a solution superior to that provided by modern medical drugs

Regards,
Bill (just connecting dots)

roster · Post by **roster** » Mon Jan 15, 2007 8:32 am

I went to six doctors over a period of six years and was told that I was suffering from stress and then later than I had not completed grieving for my father who had died 45 years earlier! I was treated with beta blockers, talk therapy, sedatives and SSRIs (antidepressants). Every medication made me feel worse.

I finally quit going to doctors and began to suspect sleep apnea. A sleep study confirmed this. Once the cpap therapy started becoming effective the stress/anxiety/depression started to go away.

My sleep doctor who is also boarded in psychiatry explained the mental symptoms. Being sleep deprived is a form of mental torture; low blood-oxygen levels is also. Most interesting was the adrenalin connection. 57 apnea episodes per hour meant my mind and body were entering the fight-or-flight mode 57 times per hour. Each time my body was producing extra adrenalin. So when I arose each morning my blood-oxygen level was low, my adrenalin levels were high and I was sleep-deprived.

My psychiatrist and talk-therapist could not explain why I could be severely anxious during the morning and then not in the middle of the afternoon in the midst of a stressful job. My sleep doctor says that it probably took some hours after awakening each morning for my adrenalin levels to normalize. It also took some time with normal blood-oxygen levels to settle down the brain.

BTW, after I had the sleep study I called one of my doctors, the psychiatrist and the talk therapist and had some clear words with them about screening their patients upfront for sleep apnea. I am sure their adrenalin levels went up when they heard what I had to say!

Here's hoping that after some time of cpap therapy your panic disorder goes away.

Sleepless in St. Louis · Post by **Sleepless in St. Louis** » Mon Jan 15, 2007 9:14 am

Good for you Rooster. That's pretty much how I felt towards my docs at the end of the day. I don't think many docs are trained to look for OSA or even suspect it when listening to a patient describe their symptoms. Some of this I blame on drug company marketing, which is top notch IMO. Doctors are inundated by this on a daily basis so that they think of the latest drug that has been marketed to them as they listen to a patient. What you have this set of complaints. HMMMM I just heard about a new drug that addresses this. Then it's a George Carlin said in one of his skits, "Give him 2 in the mouth" (pop thest pills.). Most patients then are relieved that they may be able to expect some sort of relief and that their insurance company will probably pay for most of it, that they buy into the model as well. Everyone in the chain is a little to blame. People often get temporary relief but have to stay on these meds which in some cases are very addictive. They never address the real underlying medical problem that brough on the problem to begin with. My feeling is that until this chain can be broken, this will continue to happen. I don't know the answer but formus such as this are part of it.

NightHawkeye · Post by **NightHawkeye** » Mon Jan 15, 2007 9:31 am

Sleepless in St. Louis wrote:I don't know the answer but formus such as this are part of it.

Absolutely! Anything that improves communication of information helps. Individually, a physician can simply ignore a patient's concerns when it contradicts what the physician thinks he knows. However, a number of patients voicing similar concerns become very much harder to ignore, especially when they've become educated to insist upon a particularly effective treatment option which might be contrary to standard practice; for example, requesting an APAP .

Regards,
Bill

roster · Post by **roster** » Mon Jan 15, 2007 9:44 am

Sleepless in St. Louis,

You reminded me of something. About a year ago I saw a friend that I see regularly and asked him how he was doing. He had a shocked look on his face and said he had pneumonia and was taking antibiotics. He said he went to the GP with fatigue and was totally surprised to find out it was caused by pneumonia.

I missed him this fall at a couple of breakfast meetings he usually attends. When he finally showed up I asked him where he had been. He said he had been badly fatigued and just could not get of bed many mornings. Bingo, a light goes off, I ask him a few questions about other symptoms and insisted he get a sleep study scheduled.

He was diagnosed in November with severe obstructive sleep apnea and has joined the hosehead world! He is convinced that he never had a touch of pneumonia!

We have to watch out for our friends because their doctors are often missing this.

rooster

roster · Post by **roster** » Mon Jan 15, 2007 9:57 am

Also, my dentist had been watching my bruxism progress for several years. I now know I was grinding my teeth while struggling to breathe at night.

I alerted the dentist that this is a symptom of sleep apnea and suggested he alert patients of the other symptoms and dangers.

I suggested the ADA should have dentists question patients about other symptoms of sleep apnea when they observe bruxism.

Frankiedude · Post by **Frankiedude** » Mon Jan 15, 2007 10:45 am

I have been lurking here for a month or so (having started therapy 12-06) , and am observing amazing parallels to my own life...I used to suffer panic attacks that would seemingly come from nowhere during the day (age 23-35ish). I learned how to stop them from occurring after years of hell, but was still riddled with unexplained anxiety since. After being diagnosed with pneumonia this past summer, my health never recovered significantly. I had been experiencing night gasping/ wakeups for probably 3 or so years (I am now 45). After fruitless MD visits throughout the summer and fall [including diagnoses of high blood pressure and athsma (?)] , I researched my symptoms- and alerted my pulmonary specialist of my feelings that apnea may be involved . Sleep study ensued, and VOILA!!! Rookie Hosehead! I feel much improved, there is room for more, and when I correct my mouthbreathing problem it should be great. I feel that I have had OSA for years, and it became progressively worse. SO happy to address it, because I feel I might not have made it another year due to my deterioration. Thank you for absorbing my blurb!

roster · Post by **roster** » Mon Jan 15, 2007 11:41 am

Frankiedude, I guess the position of the medical profession has been "If you can't treat it with drugs or surgery, we aren't interested." What a shame your docs did not consider sleep apnea on your first visit!

Any of you suffer from panic disorder too?

Any of you suffer from panic disorder too?

Re: Any of you suffer from panic disorder too?