I'm a 49 year old parent of 2. I have Delayed Sleep Phase and Complex Sleep Apnea. I have called many sleep clinics, and worked with one locally, but none of them seem to understand or accommodate people with circadian rhythm disorders. As I talk to more and more places who say, "of course we'll wake you at 5 am," or "why don't you just stay up the night before so you can be sure to sleep during your study?" I feel more and more isolated.
In November I had a home sleep study that said my AHI was 12.6, and started using an APAP machine. I can sleep 9 hours without it, but I wake up feeling awful. With the machine, I can sleep for 2 to 3 fragments of 1.5 to 3 hours a night, and I still wake up feeling awful, and the aerophagia is either awful or just unpleasant all day, depending on my settings. They wanted to do a study in the lab to get better data, so we tried that, but I was only able to sleep for 100 minutes. They required lights off at midnight, and I fell asleep early (for me), which always messes up my schedule. I slept for an hour and a half, then couldn't sleep again until just after 5 am, ten minutes before they woke me up. They used that data to change my settings, and my AHI did improve some, varying between 6 and 12, but the aerophagia became much much worse, and I was miserable.
I returned to the sleep doc, who said the next thing to do is try a BiPAP machine. He was reluctant to sell it to me, because he wasn't sure it would help. The problem was that when they turned the pressure up during my test, the the obstructive events went down, but the 'central apnea' events went up. But perhaps a BiPAP or ASV machine would work better for me. I could rent a BiPAP machine from the DME down the street. They said it would take 14 business days (today was day 7, but who's counting).
It seems to me that I get very little, if any, deep sleep. My short lab study showed 0%. I'm thinking that my other health issues are more likely symptoms of sleep deprivation than causes, but at any rate, treating them would certainly go better if I could get decent sleep. Chronic sleep deprivation is gradually ruining my health. My family and career are suffering from my extreme lack of energy. It seems very clear to me that the first thing to try would be a lab sleep study during my actual sleep hours to test a BiPAP.
Is there such thing as a sleep clinic that can do a test like this? My sleep doc says he doesn't think so, but it seems to me like a pretty easy accommodation to make. Am I wrong?
Lab sleep study for night owls?
- NightWatch23
- Posts: 28
- Joined: Wed Nov 29, 2017 5:07 pm
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Re: Lab sleep study for night owls?
How about we look at what data you have on your current machine to start?
Do you know about available software? If not..
https://sleep.tnet.com/equipment
Some examples
viewtopic/t103468/Need-help-with-screen-shots.html
Do you know about available software? If not..
https://sleep.tnet.com/equipment
Some examples
viewtopic/t103468/Need-help-with-screen-shots.html
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Re: Lab sleep study for night owls?
I don't know if this will be of use to you, but I use a 'pleasant undertaking' regimen when I desire to fall asleep rather more quickly than usual. On most nights, I fall asleep between 10-30 minutes, depending on what my mind wants to deal with or to entertain. If I need to fall asleep quickly, I fire up a steam locomotive from dead cold. There are various steps, and I need to assign a time and material quantity to every step, and to recall all the steps in a sequence. Because I like steam locomotives, and enjoy what it takes to fire them and to operate them, the process of starting to build a fire is about as far as I go. Next thing I know, I have had my first jerk, turn a bit, get comfortable again, and try to resume the process chain. Then, I wake up and the daylight is showing through the curtains. I would urge some to cost out a construction project, or actually build a house. If you like collecting stamps, what is involved in getting that Holy Grail item.
So, it's the pleasant undertaking that draws the mind in, but the mind will quickly move on to loosely associated concepts and events, and it is this that lets you fall asleep. Or, so it has been with me.
Exercise prior to 1800 hrs is also good for making one tired physically. Getting off screened digital devices prior to 2200 hrs is important, and earlier if at all possible.
Also, my brother was told to commence the use of a CPAP a year ago. His problem was something akin to yours....he'd fall asleep just fine, but he'd lie away from 0200 until 0500 hrs. The CPAP helped his snoring (he had mild apnea at worst), and the device helped him to stay asleep. I feel confident that, once you get seen by a truly competent authority who can regulate your CPAP, you'll soon find yourself sleeping for at least four full hours at a time, and quite possibly close to twice that.
Good luck!!
So, it's the pleasant undertaking that draws the mind in, but the mind will quickly move on to loosely associated concepts and events, and it is this that lets you fall asleep. Or, so it has been with me.
Exercise prior to 1800 hrs is also good for making one tired physically. Getting off screened digital devices prior to 2200 hrs is important, and earlier if at all possible.
Also, my brother was told to commence the use of a CPAP a year ago. His problem was something akin to yours....he'd fall asleep just fine, but he'd lie away from 0200 until 0500 hrs. The CPAP helped his snoring (he had mild apnea at worst), and the device helped him to stay asleep. I feel confident that, once you get seen by a truly competent authority who can regulate your CPAP, you'll soon find yourself sleeping for at least four full hours at a time, and quite possibly close to twice that.
Good luck!!
Re: Lab sleep study for night owls?
Her problem isn't getting to sleep but staying asleep.
Re: Lab sleep study for night owls?
I have delayed rem sleep, I have no stage 3-4 sleep, always very tired. At my study I was awake from 2am- 5am which is usual for me, but they kept the study going until 730 so they caught the hypopnea. I have the advantage sleeping really hard every other day.
I don't understand why you have to end at 5am. Not that many wake up that early. Maybe you can practice changing your sleep schedule to getting up earlier. You might have to get a home study or get into collecting data and solve the problem yourself.
I've had to do that a lot lately, even buying my own cast since your workers comp wouldn't do anything. I think sleep is worth doing whatever it takes
I don't understand why you have to end at 5am. Not that many wake up that early. Maybe you can practice changing your sleep schedule to getting up earlier. You might have to get a home study or get into collecting data and solve the problem yourself.

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Re: Lab sleep study for night owls?
Try calling a Sleep Doc who is a neurologist. The ENT and Lung sleep docs are pretty much Apnea-oriented and really can't deal with the other sleep disorders.
- NightWatch23
- Posts: 28
- Joined: Wed Nov 29, 2017 5:07 pm
- Location: South Puget Sound, WA state
- Contact:
Re: Lab sleep study for night owls?
Thanks for the replies.
Pugsy, I've been meaning to post my latest data and ask for help, but I've been using almost all my functional time for family and work. I know I need to do like they say on the airplane, and put your own mask on before assisting others, but it's hard.
D.H., alas, my sleep doc is a neurologist. My primary doc chose him partly because of that, and partly for reputation as the best in town. Although I believe it's under-diagnosed, the current estimates say only 1% of people have Delayed Sleep Phase.
I found a support group for circadian disorders, and it turns out they maintain a list of sleep clinics with flexible testing hours. There are four in the U.S. and one in Brazil. All of the U.S. ones are east coast.
Circadian rhythm disorders are poorly understood generally. Most people think I should try a nice cup of herbal tea or something. It doesn't work that way. Here's a decent article if you're interested: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4308960/
Pugsy, I've been meaning to post my latest data and ask for help, but I've been using almost all my functional time for family and work. I know I need to do like they say on the airplane, and put your own mask on before assisting others, but it's hard.
D.H., alas, my sleep doc is a neurologist. My primary doc chose him partly because of that, and partly for reputation as the best in town. Although I believe it's under-diagnosed, the current estimates say only 1% of people have Delayed Sleep Phase.
I found a support group for circadian disorders, and it turns out they maintain a list of sleep clinics with flexible testing hours. There are four in the U.S. and one in Brazil. All of the U.S. ones are east coast.
Circadian rhythm disorders are poorly understood generally. Most people think I should try a nice cup of herbal tea or something. It doesn't work that way. Here's a decent article if you're interested: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4308960/
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