Discouraged...

I started using a BiPAP in May 2014, it's been a miserable experience, but I've stuck with it.

I currently use a Resmed VPAP S with H5i Humidifier, heated hose, and Airfit F20 mask/headgear. I used the Quattro Air for the first year or so...

I never felt improvement in sleep. I started using an app on my phone that allowed me to rate my sleep from 1 to 5, and I rarely rated it 3 or above. I rarely woke feeling rested. I rarely could stay asleep more than 6 or 7 hours and felt like I needed much more (partly due to my son who is now about as old I've been on BiPAP).

Finally, at this year's follow-up appointment, and making the same complaint as every single prior year about my mask and headgear hurting, feeling like my pressure was too high, having almost zero dreams for all these years, and not feeling rested and still feeling overwhelmingly sleepy after maybe 8pm, she adjusted my pressures down from 16/12 to 14/10. My AHI was fine, but I had very frequent mask leaks. After lowering the pressure, I immediately felt some improvement. It's been just at one week, but I feel somewhat rested when I wake, and I'm having dreams again.

The reason I'm discouraged is that aside from my mask and headgear hurting and waking me with pain, and aside from waking what feels like hourly tossing and turning, and despite feeling some recent improvement, I kinda regret ever getting diagnosed with sleep apnea, because I haven't slept well since. I miss the frequent vivid dreams I used to have (like 4 to 6 distinct dreams a night) and I miss that I actually felt rested prior to using this bipap.

My plan is to switch masks. I got fitted for a F&P Simplus and it's the most comfortable I've ever tried. I'm going to start using whatever the software is to at least look at my data and try to understand WHY I'm technically treated and have good AHI, but feel worse than I did with untreated severe sleep apnea.

Other than that, I'm at a loss, and actually considering if it's worth it for my sanity to stop using the machine so I can actually sleep.

Has anyone else had a similar experience?
Thanks in advance

Without data, there is nothing but guesses.
See the three links below and start working towards improvement.

Stopping treatment is just inviting a heart attack or stroke and believe me, you don't want to go out that way. A heart attack took my father and a stroke my mother. She suffered for 2 years before dying. A miserable existence. Please keep trying.

Yourbrokenoven, I went into AFib this past summer...quite a dismaying shock to a very fit man. My cardiologist, among other tests, prescribed a sleep clinic. Long story short, I have severe apnea (obstructive). But, my sleep was excellent. I dreamt, awoke refreshed, no headaches or irritability...nada. I still don't have to get up to pee, and I'm 65!!! But, I was getting 30 AHI's per hour.

What I wanted you to know is that, like you, I don't feel my quality of sleep is any better. In fact, I'm somewhat more groggy throughout the day, although in fairness my cardiologist and pharmacist both warned me that the beta blocker I'm now on might have that effect. Still, one way or another, I'm somewhat worse off in the sleep department if for no other reason than I awaken two or three times, at least, to adjust my nose mask so that my eyelashes don't get blown off by the blow-by. IOW, the leaks jerk me out of sleep sometimes. That can't be good. My charts show that I am getting good quality sleep and a good seal. It's hard to argue with the charts.

Fiddle. Try new things, work on some ideas. When you awaken, turn over and try to get comfortable so that you can fall asleep...leave the mask on, just move it around a bit.

FWIW, I had to have two trials at a sleep lab. First was to diagnose me, and the second was to confirm my oxygen levels (titration) with a finger sleeve and to ensure my mask was fitting and that I was getting the correct pressure. Have you had a recent evaluation at a sleep lab? Maybe it would help.....?

How do you feel after a week not using it ?

For me lowering the pressure made it a lot more comfortable to use it.

Keep trying, don't be afraid to test changes. Don't try, do it, and re post with questions.

Take care of your self your sun needs you.

Ok, I read the book on how to get the data and post.

I'm really uncertain of what I'm looking it. It looks like maybe my mask leaks got much worse after the pressure change, when I started feeling a little improvement in sleep.

Oh well, I can't tighten that sucker any more.

Work on mask fitting to control leaks. Sometimes tighter is not better.
Search internet "Cpap mask fitting template" for your mask model. Make sure you have the correct size. Some include a ruler so you don't have to print it out to get a rough idea.
Use your CPAP menu setting that reads Mask Fitting and adjust the straps. Do this in bed, with your pillow, blankets.
For me, my mask would leak when I turned my head to the side into my pillow. I could keep tightening my mask, but I finally learned not to do this while asleep, well half asleep.
There is so much more you will learn here.

Good luck with your therapy.

yourbrokenoven wrote:


Ok, I read the book on how to get the data and post.

I'm really uncertain of what I'm looking it. It looks like maybe my mask leaks got much worse after the pressure change, when I started feeling a little improvement in sleep.

Oh well, I can't tighten that sucker any more.

I can see that your AHI is extremely low but I can't read any other numbers. See the 3 threads below.

Yes. I read all 3 of those and followed the instructions.

Here's my second attempt:

You have included graphs that aren't particularly helpful and omitted graphs that might be helpful.

See this thread were we talk about which graphs we want to see and if we need something else we will ask.
viewtopic/t103468/Need-help-with-screen-shots.html

In general in addition to the Statistics and AHI numbers on the left these graphs on the right.
Events
Flow rate
Pressure or mask pressure (just one..don't need both)
Leak
Flow limitation.

5 graphs is about all you can get and still be able to evaluate them optimally. More than that and they get too tiny and it's hard to see and evaluate.

Hi YBO (curious name!). I can't swear that what I am going to say is clinically proven or anything, but my pre-PAP dreams were also more vivid. On occasion, however, they were downright terrifying, and I usually think of "bad" dreams as just a different form of nighttime entertainment. What I discovered was a correlation between what I now call "periodic breathing" (per SleepyHead) and my dreams. My non-medical assumption is that corresponding drops in my oxygen levels fueled my more vivid dreams, and that longer periods of oxygen deprivation were the cause of the terrible dreams.

With my CPAP, I don't recall my dreams much any more (except for the ones where I'm walking around having forgotten to remove the mask ), and I certainly don't have any more vivid or terrifying dreams. My only logical conclusion is that CPAP usage has all but eliminated the periodic breathing episodes (verified by SleepyHead). And that's a good thing.

Granted, none of this addresses the other issues you flagged in your post, but I thought my experience and assumptions might be useful to you.

Cheers,

MC

Pugsy wrote:You have included graphs that aren't particularly helpful and omitted graphs that might be helpful.

See this thread were we talk about which graphs we want to see and if we need something else we will ask.
viewtopic/t103468/Need-help-with-screen-shots.html

In general in addition to the Statistics and AHI numbers on the left these graphs on the right.
Events
Flow rate
Pressure or mask pressure (just one..don't need both)
Leak
Flow limitation.

5 graphs is about all you can get and still be able to evaluate them optimally. More than that and they get too tiny and it's hard to see and evaluate.

Sorry... I had gone by instructions here https://sleep.tnet.com/resources/sleepyhead/shorganize

Ok, here's my third attempt.

The chart looks good as far as the pressure adjustment and rise time go. Those leaks need sorting. The s9 has a mask fit function that blows higher pressure, while you lay down and adjust your mask. there are lots of mask fit videos, don't over tighten, looser is better.

It may also be hose drag, if you don't have a hose keeping method. For now have the hose go over the top of your head, with enough slack to move and put it under the pillow back to the machine, till you can sort out something better.

Thanks all.

The doctor reduced my pressure on Jan 25th to reduce my leak and also suggested I switch masks and come here and start using sleepyhead, etc.

Hopefully when I get a new mask it won't leak. The F20 mask has been nothing but trouble and discomfort for me.

I love mine, every face is different. What have you used so far, just the f20?