What about a person drives pressure level?

TedVPAP wrote:

palerider wrote:

TedVPAP wrote:One study showed pressure predictions based on BMI, neck size, and AHI were accurate within +/- 1 cm-h20 for 20 out of 26 patients. That is not COMPLETELY USELESS.

However, it is such an incredibly small sample as to be statistically insignificant.

You clearly have no understanding of statistics - yet you make silly statements.
I can only read the paper's abstract so I can't quote their statistical analysis.
However I can perform my own calculation given the data in the abstract.
A sample size of 26, with binomial outcomes of 20 and 6 means that the two methods are equivalent (defined as within +/- 1cm-H2O) with a confidence of 99.5%

TedVPAP wrote:

chunkyfrog wrote:+1000, Julie.
As I understand, the neck size is an easily observed factor in establishing
LIKELIHOOD of having OSA--PERIOD!
It is COMPLETELY USELESS in predicting pressure.
This is why there are titration studies.

Obviously you didn't read the links I provided. One study showed pressure predictions based on BMI, neck size, and AHI were accurate within +/- 1 cm-h20 for 20 out of 26 patients. That is not COMPLETELY USELESS.
No one is suggestion eliminating titration, nor is that the subject of this thread. Read the original post for the subject.

TheLankyLefty wrote:This is sketchy as hell.

I have seen this from Home Sleep Testing companies. Virtuox is one of them, based out of Florida, but they ship everywhere and have a contract with an HMO in my area. They will set up a prescription for a CPAP machine with a pressure based on neck size BEFORE they have even been tested with their Type 4 HST....the worst possible kind.

Efficiency or Fraud...you be the judge.

My own company doesn't do any of that. Not sure if that's what you were referring to. The primary company that I work for doesn't either.

I really don't know how neck size would be an accurate indicator of a CPAP setting either. From observation there really doesn't seem to be a strong pattern of degree of OSA and what their optimal pressure is.

Then again, the quote is to "set the initial AutoPAP pressure"....so whatever. I get the feeling this is a subtle tactic to make the end user think that this is some scientific tool used for accuracy.

palerider wrote:Well, instead of just deciding that "I'm right and you're stupid" like Tedvpap does... I actually *asked* someone in the sleep industry who provides home sleep tests and has years of experience...

their reply:

This is sketchy as hell.

I have seen this from Home Sleep Testing companies. Virtuox is one of them, based out of Florida, but they ship everywhere and have a contract with an HMO in my area. They will set up a prescription for a CPAP machine with a pressure based on neck size BEFORE they have even been tested with their Type 4 HST....the worst possible kind.

Efficiency or Fraud...you be the judge.

My own company doesn't do any of that. Not sure if that's what you were referring to. The primary company that I work for doesn't either.

I really don't know how neck size would be an accurate indicator of a CPAP setting either. From observation there really doesn't seem to be a strong pattern of degree of OSA and what their optimal pressure is.

Then again, the quote is to "set the initial AutoPAP pressure"....so whatever. I get the feeling this is a subtle tactic to make the end user think that this is some scientific tool used for accuracy.

So, I'll retract my allegation that started this stupid argument "I was wrong, apparently some home sleep test companies DO ask about neck sizes".

As to whether there's any validity in doing so, Y'all just make up your own minds.

palerider wrote:Well, instead of just deciding that "I'm right and you're stupid" like Tedvpap does... I actually *asked* someone in the sleep industry who provides home sleep tests and has years of experience...

their reply:

TheLankyLefty wrote:This is sketchy as hell.

I have seen this from Home Sleep Testing companies. Virtuox is one of them, based out of Florida, but they ship everywhere and have a contract with an HMO in my area. They will set up a prescription for a CPAP machine with a pressure based on neck size BEFORE they have even been tested with their Type 4 HST....the worst possible kind.

Efficiency or Fraud...you be the judge.

My own company doesn't do any of that. Not sure if that's what you were referring to. The primary company that I work for doesn't either.

I really don't know how neck size would be an accurate indicator of a CPAP setting either. From observation there really doesn't seem to be a strong pattern of degree of OSA and what their optimal pressure is.

Then again, the quote is to "set the initial AutoPAP pressure"....so whatever. I get the feeling this is a subtle tactic to make the end user think that this is some scientific tool used for accuracy.

(Their being Jason, of TheLankyLefty27 youtube fame).

So, I'll retract my allegation that started this stupid argument "I was wrong, apparently some home sleep test companies DO ask about neck sizes".

As to whether there's any validity in doing so, Y'all just make up your own minds.

xxyzx wrote:

TedVPAP wrote:

palerider wrote:

TedVPAP wrote:One study showed pressure predictions based on BMI, neck size, and AHI were accurate within +/- 1 cm-h20 for 20 out of 26 patients. That is not COMPLETELY USELESS.

However, it is such an incredibly small sample as to be statistically insignificant.

You clearly have no understanding of statistics - yet you make silly statements.
I can only read the paper's abstract so I can't quote their statistical analysis.
However I can perform my own calculation given the data in the abstract.
A sample size of 26, with binomial outcomes of 20 and 6 means that the two methods are equivalent (defined as within +/- 1cm-H2O) with a confidence of 99.5%

======

+/- 1.0 is not very good
+/- 0.1 might be

20/26 is a lousy batting average for too many people
200/206 would be a far better one for the patients

TedVPAP wrote:You don't know anything about baseball either.