xxyzx and Morbius Spam Buttons Removed

I am saddened by the events of the last few months. While this forum has always had "tiffs" between people, what's going on now goes beyond a little tiff. While most people have their opinions about who is doing what, certain facts are indisputable (for those that want to know the facts). There are a lot more examples, but these are the ones I saw that got my "panties in a bunch."

1. The assertion that ASV & AVAPS are the same thing. Being one of the few people here using AVAPS, it was necessary for me to correct that error. I do not have the detailed knowledge base as some others, but very knowledgeable and respected members do and posted detailed information to contradict the assertion. Yet, that poster denies it was ever posted. Demands the facts, they are provided, then denies they were.

2. When that poster made the comment "time to put autistic girl in foster care" I came unglued. This poor woman came here for help and so many of us wanted to help, only to have that comment made? Makes the entire forum look bad. Hard to come back from that.

3. Accusing me (among others) of spam deleting posts. I have left spam because I wasn't 100% certain it WAS, in fact, spam. I have never, nor will I ever, spam delete a post because of it's content or dislike of the person posting it. I will post in rebuttal, but will not delete any normal post other than my own. To be accused of it is insulting, considering how hard I have worked to be a decent member of this community.

4. A comment was made (and I'm paraphrasing because I'm tired and not feeling up to finding the exact wording) essentially saying that when (not if, WHEN) they take over the world, all the libtards will be killed. As far as I'm concerned, since he's called me a libtard (ad nauseum) - he essentially threatened my life. I have a BIG problem with that.

While I'm all for the free speech thing and the self-moderating and self-correcting policy of this board, what's going on here goes beyond anything free speech protects (threats) and possible self correcting. A person that is able to be so consistent in their insanity is either seriously mentally challenged (sad) OR doing it as a calculating attack on this forum.

Either way, the result to this forum is the same. It's eventual demise.

Madalot wrote:I am saddened by the events of the last few months. While this forum has always had "tiffs" between people, what's going on now goes beyond a little tiff. While most people have their opinions about who is doing what, certain facts are indisputable (for those that want to know the facts). There are a lot more examples, but these are the ones I saw that got my "panties in a bunch."

1. The assertion that ASV & AVAPS are the same thing. Being one of the few people here using AVAPS, it was necessary for me to correct that error. I do not have the detailed knowledge base as some others, but very knowledgeable and respected members do and posted detailed information to contradict the assertion. Yet, that poster denies it was ever posted. Demands the facts, they are provided, then denies they were.

2. When that poster made the comment "time to put autistic girl in foster care" I came unglued. This poor woman came here for help and so many of us wanted to help, only to have that comment made? Makes the entire forum look bad. Hard to come back from that.

3. Accusing me (among others) of spam deleting posts. I have left spam because I wasn't 100% certain it WAS, in fact, spam. I have never, nor will I ever, spam delete a post because of it's content or dislike of the person posting it. I will post in rebuttal, but will not delete any normal post other than my own. To be accused of it is insulting, considering how hard I have worked to be a decent member of this community.

4. A comment was made (and I'm paraphrasing because I'm tired and not feeling up to finding the exact wording) essentially saying that when (not if, WHEN) they take over the world, all the libtards will be killed. As far as I'm concerned, since he's called me a libtard (ad nauseum) - he essentially threatened my life. I have a BIG problem with that.

While I'm all for the free speech thing and the self-moderating and self-correcting policy of this board, what's going on here goes beyond anything free speech protects (threats) and possible self correcting. A person that is able to be so consistent in their insanity is either seriously mentally challenged (sad) OR doing it as a calculating attack on this forum.

I will repeat, words cause no real harm.

"It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg.”
― Thomas Jefferson

Are there things said that can annoy people? Sure. Are there things said that are just downright mean or cruel? Sure. But where is the real damage? What is preventing those comments from just being ignored?

Madalot wrote: Either way, the result to this forum is the same. It's eventual demise.

That choice is not made by the trolls, rude people, or stupid people. That is a CHOICE made by too many good people, and by making the choice to leave a group because of a few, is ceding victory to those few.

LSAT wrote:

Unregistered Guest wrote:

LSAT wrote:It's the unregistered guests

Unregistered Guests cannot delete posts under any circumstances for any reason. Now take your ball and go back to the playground. Yes theycan...under their "real ID"

You have been told on more than one occasion if you don't like it here go where it suits you and you can't make those snide remarks or start your very own forum where you can be the queen again. I don't take orders from "Unregistered Guests"

Your call

Unregistered guests should not be able to post...Unregistered guests are most likely registered guests that want to hide their real identities. Unregistered guests can cause havoc and no one knows who they are. Unregistered guests can change their name with every post and remain anonymous. Unregistered guests can fan the flames and are never blamed.

What is so sad is You obviously are not even faintly aware that YOU are also hiding your real identity.

Do tell why you lost your Spam Button - NO Self-Control?
Do tell how many other User IDs you have.

If you don't like the rules here why are you a member?
Guess its time to start your very own forum you can call it LSOT cuz you can't spell LOST, a place where lonely whiners who have NO Self-Control but would like to control others can be together again. Your fantasy come true.

Most of the whiners live alone obviously for a good reason.

MaxINTJ wrote:

Madalot wrote:I am saddened by the events of the last few months. While this forum has always had "tiffs" between people, what's going on now goes beyond a little tiff. While most people have their opinions about who is doing what, certain facts are indisputable (for those that want to know the facts). There are a lot more examples, but these are the ones I saw that got my "panties in a bunch."

1. The assertion that ASV & AVAPS are the same thing. Being one of the few people here using AVAPS, it was necessary for me to correct that error. I do not have the detailed knowledge base as some others, but very knowledgeable and respected members do and posted detailed information to contradict the assertion. Yet, that poster denies it was ever posted. Demands the facts, they are provided, then denies they were.

2. When that poster made the comment "time to put autistic girl in foster care" I came unglued. This poor woman came here for help and so many of us wanted to help, only to have that comment made? Makes the entire forum look bad. Hard to come back from that.

3. Accusing me (among others) of spam deleting posts. I have left spam because I wasn't 100% certain it WAS, in fact, spam. I have never, nor will I ever, spam delete a post because of it's content or dislike of the person posting it. I will post in rebuttal, but will not delete any normal post other than my own. To be accused of it is insulting, considering how hard I have worked to be a decent member of this community.

4. A comment was made (and I'm paraphrasing because I'm tired and not feeling up to finding the exact wording) essentially saying that when (not if, WHEN) they take over the world, all the libtards will be killed. As far as I'm concerned, since he's called me a libtard (ad nauseum) - he essentially threatened my life. I have a BIG problem with that.

While I'm all for the free speech thing and the self-moderating and self-correcting policy of this board, what's going on here goes beyond anything free speech protects (threats) and possible self correcting. A person that is able to be so consistent in their insanity is either seriously mentally challenged (sad) OR doing it as a calculating attack on this forum.

I will repeat, words cause no real harm.

"It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg.”
― Thomas Jefferson

Are there things said that can annoy people? Sure. Are there things said that are just downright mean or cruel? Sure. But where is the real damage? What is preventing those comments from just being ignored?

Madalot wrote: Either way, the result to this forum is the same. It's eventual demise.

That choice is not made by the trolls, rude people, or stupid people. That is a CHOICE made by too many good people, and by making the choice to leave a group because of a few, is ceding victory to those few.

Even if I concede your points on this (which I'm iffy on) - disseminating inaccurate information can be dangerous. Words? Yes, I will concede that. Is it up to the recipient to check the facts (especially online) before acting on them? Yes. But people, especially sleep deprived people, aren't always up to it. Some of the information (ASV = AVAPS being just one example) can be dangerous if people reading it take it to heart.

If I go tell a young child that he can run in the path of a speeding car and be fine, those are just words too. But in so doing, I am encouraging him make a horrible decision that would cost him his life. I would be 100% responsible because I used words to get him to do something dangerous. I guarantee I would be arrested and probably beaten to death by his parents if I used words to convince a child to run in the path of a speeding car.

Extreme example? Of course it is, but it is an example of how words can hurt and kill - all depending on the recipient.

Those of us who have been here a long time, received tremendous help and information, have an affection for this forum. We're protective of it and the new people that come along. Going around behind "that poster" to ensure the accuracy (or at least not dangerously inaccurate) information in his posts is becoming a full-time job.

And here's another point - I've semi disagreed with your post. I didn't delete it. I didn't rant on you. And I didn't attack YOU personally or call you any names. Yet, he calls me one of "the" bullies and accuses me of spam deleting posts. That's disseminating pretty inaccurate information in my book. It's not dangerous or harmful (annoying, yes). I could almost let that go because it's the ravings of a lunatic. But the inaccurate posts about doctors, therapy, medications, etc., is not as easily ignored.

Just my opinion.

Madalot wrote:Even if I concede your points on this (which I'm iffy on) - disseminating inaccurate information can be dangerous. Words? Yes, I will concede that. Is it up to the recipient to check the facts (especially online) before acting on them? Yes. But people, especially sleep deprived people, aren't always up to it. Some of the information (ASV = AVAPS being just one example) can be dangerous if people reading it take it to heart.

If I go tell a young child that he can run in the path of a speeding car and be fine, those are just words too. But in so doing, I am encouraging him make a horrible decision that would cost him his life. I would be 100% responsible because I used words to get him to do something dangerous. I guarantee I would be arrested and probably beaten to death by his parents if I used words to convince a child to run in the path of a speeding car.

I get your point, but using a minor as an example does not correspond to what happens here between adults. But yes, there are certain types of speech that are illegal - shouting fire in a theater, inciting a riot, encouraging crime, etc, that cross the line.

As far as wrong information being posted by some people, I have seen folks here immediately correct it, so at the bare minimum, the OP asking the question should be prompted to research on their own. If they don't, doom on them. You can lead a horse to water....

Madalot wrote:And here's another point - I've semi disagreed with your post. I didn't delete it. I didn't rant on you. And I didn't attack YOU personally or call you any names. Yet, he calls me one of "the" bullies and accuses me of spam deleting posts. That's disseminating pretty inaccurate information in my book. It's not dangerous or harmful (annoying, yes). I could almost let that go because it's the ravings of a lunatic. But the inaccurate posts about doctors, therapy, medications, etc., is not as easily ignored.

Just my opinion.

I guess my overall point is that I am torn. I am a staunch advocate of freedom - including speech - but I also see the value of all the helpful (good) people here who have changed people's lives in small or large ways.

I have a very thick skin and can easily let "ravings of a lunatic" slide right off, or I can entertain myself and engage them - all the while knowing I can just drop it because it's really meaningless.

I wish everyone had the same thick skin, because it would be a shame for the few to win and for the good to flee.

MaxINTJ wrote:I wish everyone had the same thick skin, because it would be a shame for the few to win and for the good to flee.

Wishing doesn't make it happen as evidenced by your wishing xpap would fix all your problems but it doesn't.

Good people shouldn't have to hold their nose while wading through garbage posts everywhere to avoid the stink.
Good people shouldn't have to turn the other cheek when called some pretty ugly names for the sake of free speech.

I have been here since 2009 and have seen skirmishes come and go. This stuff now is beyond a skirmish..it's an atomic bomb going off.
It used to be a fun place to come and we would have our own little pissing contests over cpap therapy beliefs but now it's nothing but a name calling cesspool of fighting over crap that isn't even cpap related but instead ego related.

Good people shouldn't have to have a thick skin and hold their nose and wade through shit to help people.

Pugsy wrote:Good people shouldn't have to have a thick skin and hold their nose and wade through shit to help people.

Amen, Pugsy. Very well said.

Madalot wrote:

Pugsy wrote:Good people shouldn't have to have a thick skin and hold their nose and wade through shit to help people.

Amen, Pugsy. Very well said.

Another amen for Pugsy's post.

Madalot wrote:

Pugsy wrote:Good people shouldn't have to have a thick skin and hold their nose and wade through shit to help people.

Amen, Pugsy. Very well said.

But life is like that - unless you are advocating for "safe spaces" where one need never deal with what's really out there. Most times people need to wade through varying depths of shit to get to anything good.

Don't get me wrong, I don't like the way things have been going on this forum either - it's gotten to a point where 50% of the posts I skip because it's all name calling. BUT, there is still good information here.

If all the good and helpful people leave, the forum will be useless - and guess who wins?

MaxINTJ wrote:If all the good and helpful people leave, the forum will be useless - and guess who wins?

If the forum is useless anyway...why stay?

Since this is happening, I can't follow the many published topics.
I have tried the translation of hundreds of posts written, often with idiomatic phrases, very difficult to translate and understand the right way!
I love this forum but I can't join. Too difficult to navigate between insults, lies, accusations, vulgar words!
I understand that for the forum distant people who don't know your language well aren't very important but ...
good wind at all.

Oltremare

Pugsy wrote:

MaxINTJ wrote:If all the good and helpful people leave, the forum will be useless - and guess who wins?

If the forum is useless anyway...why stay?

Many good, kind people have tried to address the information without any personal comments or insults. It's become obvious that in his mind, disagreeing with him (even politely) or contradicting anything he says is akin to bullying. And once he decides you are a bully, your ability to function with him here is GONE. No matter what you say or do (or don't do) he will come at you under the mistaken guise of "standing up to bullies" because he has labeled you as such and considers you fair game for his outrageous attacks.

It's sick. And it shouldn't be allowed to continue. And since it is, those of us that think life is just too damned short to put up with that shit - will leave.

Pugsy wrote:

MaxINTJ wrote:If all the good and helpful people leave, the forum will be useless - and guess who wins?

If the forum is useless anyway...why stay?

But at this point it's not useless - it's "cluttered".

I get people's points about the crap going on, and I get that this forum is an option in life, so I get that it is probably easier to just bail out. But is quitting the "best" option?

A bit off topic here, but I posted a reply to a thread about 15 minutes ago, and it has disappeared.

There seem to be an awful lot of glitches on the forum at the moment, posts not appearing in order, posts disappearing and reappearing, and multiple identical posts.

Odd thing is if I go to "View my posts" the post is there, but when I click on it, not.

I wonder what is happening?

MaxINTJ wrote: But at this point it's not useless - it's "cluttered".

I get people's points about the crap going on, and I get that this forum is an option in life, so I get that it is probably easier to just bail out. But is quitting the "best" option?

Would you frequent a biker bar that was rough and tumble and you had to dodge swinging fists and flying beer bottles just to get a drink or would you prefer a less rowdy bar to have a nice drink?

It's not quitting drinking...but instead going to a different bar to have that drink.

When the "clutter" overwhelms the good...it's fast becoming useless because all you see is the clutter and it makes it really hard to find the good quality stuff.

We have always had some "clutter" (if you want to call it that) but never to this magnitude where it would be a challenge to find 10 posts on the main page without clutter of some sort in it and some threads have devolved to nothing but shit throwing.
That is not a bar that I want to take my business to and I am not the only one who feels that way.
I get on average of one private message a day about the quality of this forum and someone telling me that they are taking their business elsewhere and I can't blame them. I have been here long enough to develop a thick skin but newbies haven't and I really don't blame them.
I figure if it bothers me this much and I do have thick skin....imagine how much it bothers people who haven't waded through the wars I have here.

If Johnny wants a forum where there's not much going on but "clutter" in the name of lack of censorship...then more power to him.
There's a place in life for biker bar forums but I won't frequent them. I gave up enjoying a good fight long ago.

Only reason I am here now is to wait and see if Johnny wants a biker bar or a high class bar.