Don't you want to boycott Resmed

DreamStalker wrote:Guest -

Well if Resmed really had the "patient's best interest in mind" then are not the uninsured patients best interest worthy of of Resmed's concern?

I wouldn't really think so. Plus we aren't talking about catering to one specific segment of a market population, but rather focusing on overall quality of care. Going by what ResMed has said - they have data showing that not setting standards for distribution leads to a decline in overall patient care and satisfaction. They aren't so much catering to a market segment as they are going for an overall quality of care goal.

However - even if they were going for a specific demographic it doesn't make much sense to cater to the one portion of your market that by it's nature is going to be least likely to make you a profit.

Anonymous wrote:

DreamStalker wrote:Guest -

Well if Resmed really had the "patient's best interest in mind" then are not the uninsured patients best interest worthy of of Resmed's concern?

I wouldn't really think so. Plus we aren't talking about catering to one specific segment of a market population, but rather focusing on overall quality of care. Going by what ResMed has said - they have data showing that not setting standards for distribution leads to a decline in overall patient care and satisfaction. They aren't so much catering to a market segment as they are going for an overall quality of care goal.

So you are saying that Resmed's overall quality of care goal is intended only for the insured even though they are not catering to one specific segment of a market population ??? Uhhhmm so ... the market population then excludes the uninsured (because they are not worthy of course) ... according to your logic.

Anonymous wrote:However - even if they were going for a specific demographic it doesn't make much sense to cater to the one portion of your market that by it's nature is going to be least likely to make you a profit.

... but I thought you just said Resmed is not interested in increasing profits because they care more about overall quality of care??? You have very bewildering logic!



- r

Come on now man - I don't know if you are trying to be argumentative for the sack of arguing or what but quit trying to imply something in what I've written that clearly isn't there.

DreamStalker wrote:... but I thought you just said Resmed is not interested in increasing profits because they care more about overall quality of care??? You have very bewildering logic!

Read again what I said - I'll put it here for you and expand on it further to make sure that I'm being crystal clear:

Anonymous wrote:However (Lets play hypotheticals here) - even if they were (Which means - they aren't but again we are just playing with hypotheticals here) going for a specific demographic it doesn't make much sense to cater to the one portion of your market that by it's nature is going to be least likely to make you a profit.

DreamStalker wrote:So you are saying that Resmed's overall quality of care goal is intended only for the insured even though they are not catering to one specific segment of a market population ??? Uhhhmm so ... the market population then excludes the uninsured (because they are not worthy of course) ... according to your logic.

Come on man. Seriously. Did you even read what you quoted??
[

Now. All that aside. Read that very carefully. We are moving on to something else entirely now. None of this has anything to do with the comments above so don't quote something here and apply it to something above ok?

You continue to hammer away on this uninsured kick. Why? Again I ask - what the hell obligation does ResMed have to help the uninsured? And don't answer that they don't have an obligation since all of your points have revolved around it.
I have yet to hear a single reason given for this question. What they do with thier pricing is entirely up to them and frankly how dare you find fault with them for it? You can disagree with it - great. But who the hell are you (collective you) to tell them they are wrong?

One of the limitations of this forum is that we may just all be preaching to our own choir.
With the exception of an occasional update from Johnny, we do not know much about the Resmed and DME's points of views.
We have virtually no input from the Docs or manufacturers unless you count and occasional guest posting who may or may not be connected to them.

I firmly believe in free marked dynamics and that any producer let that market determine its failure or success.

Many mfgs dictate the marketing and pricing of its products.


I wish Johnny would update us on any communication he has with Resmed.
Is cpcp com one of those permitted to sell Resmed?
Is there any meaningful dialog with Resmed on its decision?
What is the initial response from other online dealers and what are they doing other than crying foul?
Has anyone had any responses from their e-mail etc to them?
Help Johnny! update please.

_________________

CPAPopedia Keywords Contained In This Post (Click For Definition): resmed, DME

Guest -

I'm not arguing for sake of it ... I'm making a point that your logic is difficult for me to follow.

You say that Resmed has no obligation to uninsured -- obviously true from their new policy be it right, wrong, or what ever ... IMO I agree that any business has a right to make their own decisions (free market or what ever one wishes to call it).

You then quote Resmed's reason for policy is to increase overall quality of care -- which you agree with be it right, wrong, or whatever ... IMO their justification for their policy is untrue and must be due to other reason(s).

I'm pointing out that Resmed's reason for policy is in conflict with their with their lack of obligation for the uninsured ... which you don't seem to understand. Why does Resmed have to have an obligation to the uninsured? ... it does not matter because they obviously don't and I'm not say they have to -- I'm saying they don't and because of that fact they cannot be making policy change to increase overall quality of care because overall means overall including uninsured.

I suppose you are just as confused as I am about your view or you just plain do not wish to accept others point of view. I too am just trying to make my point clear to you but I have now given up ... so take care and best wishes.

- r

Don't you want to boycott Resmed

Not yet

I don't like their pricing policy, I don't like Apple's pricing policy, and I don't like Lego's pricing policy. It isn't price fixing if the are not entering into an agreement with other makers of similar products. If I want it I have to pay the price. That is true of most of the things I buy. I want some things I can't afford even at a 40% reduction.

I can't figure out why they are instituting the policy-we are such a small market. Could it really be to improve quality of care to the segment of the market that does use their products? We'll know when we see that care improve. I'd love to know how they plan to use a pricing policy to improve quality of care. Maybe they are making their preferred distributers agree to provide specific services along with the product. I'll wait and see what service Apria provides with their Resmed products. Oh forgot-its only the internet providers-so I'll watch for a quality service guarantee if I decide to place an online Resmed order. I'll read the fine print-ask my questions-find out what the response is-then decide.

IMO-Lack of insurance is a social issue and must be solved at a social level if it is to be solved for all people all of the time. It can't be solved medically or through pricing policies. And yes I am insured.

Resmed, like all other US public corporations, work for their shareholders and not for people who are uninsured. Should they have a social conscience and try to help those less fortunate? Yes, I think they should, and different companies do this to different levels. Which is why you see the ads from pharmaceutical companies mentioning that if you cannot afford certain drugs, help may be available for you and to contact them.

Paul B wrote:Resmed, like all other US public corporations, work for their shareholders and not for people who are uninsured. Should they have a social conscience and try to help those less fortunate? Yes, I think they should, and different companies do this to different levels. Which is why you see the ads from pharmaceutical companies mentioning that if you cannot afford certain drugs, help may be available for you and to contact them.

_________________

CPAPopedia Keywords Contained In This Post (Click For Definition): resmed

Hi Paul,

I see the point you are making re social responsibility, but to equate a business (like Resmed's or Respironics') with what is really charity seems questionable.

Governments & Religious groups do have obligations to their constituents for healthcare support to the less fortunate & needy. Resmed & Respironics pay taxes to these govts (state and federal) and part of that should be fed into healthcare provision to those who otherwise can't affod or obtain 'reasonable' healthcare. Govts have to take a level of responsibility here.

It does seem to me unfair if we burden or criticise commercial enterprises over their charity work. The fact is they aren't charities but are taxed toto fund charities and govt aid. The problem with laying the charity burden at commercial enterprises' feet is that no 2 people are likely to agree to what extent a company should do this charity work.

It is for me, hard to see merit in any criticism of healthcare companys over their 'percieved attitude' to uninsured people who are or aren't their customers.

The topic does also seem open to emotional manipulation.


Cheers

DSM

_________________

CPAPopedia Keywords Contained In This Post (Click For Definition): respironics, resmed

All,

I have a question. I am from Australia and the supply chain and insurance for equipment here is a little different to the US. However Resmed is doing the same thing here. My sleep Doctor and equipment supplier both do not understand Resmeds reasons for doing this. My question. Could this be about repeat business? We buy our first CPAP machine through the DME then more and more of us are becoming aware that there is lots of information and cheaper new equipment available through the internet and as humans do we buy from the cheapest supplier. By doing this we affect the Insurance Companys and DME's revenue which in turn affects Resmeds ability to control and forecast manufacture and revenue. Don't get me wrong I do not agree with what they are doing I just don't understand it. Maybe we will never understand.

Peterau, looks to me like you understand it pretty well. Resmed is sitting on top of the cpap patients of the world and wants to stay on top. Websites provide patients with options. Resmed is resisting websites they can't control. They know that informed consumers will not tolerate the DME controlled world once they understand how unfairly they are treated. The battle is on. The winners, patients and all manufacturer's who support patients. The losers, Resmed and any manufacturer's who join them in trying to turn back time.

The question I have is why can't Resmed see this? The answer I think is arrogance and pride.

Peterau, I saw this theory by Rested gal made sense to me

rested gal wrote:

Wulfman wrote:Were you also thinking about those who DON'T have insurance or Medicare? It will cost them more to purchase out-of-pocket. The others (so far) haven't indicated that they will follow suit.....this is just ResMed's policy (it was also their policy to not allow shipments out-of-country).

Thank you for saying that, Den. It is, indeed, the uninsured who will be hit hardest.

Wulfman wrote:Again.....this has nothing to do with ResMed raising prices to increase their own profits.....this is raising the prices that the Internet sellers have to charge.....whether they want to or not.

True, resmed's policy isn't being implemented to put the 40%+ internet price hike dollars directly into resmed's coffers. The 40% hike dollars go to the internet stores, if people buy resmed products from them.

But I have a feeling resmed is doing this to increase their profits over the long haul. How better to win new customers in the brick-and-mortar DME business community?

"See, all you DME's? We (resmed) are working aggressively on YOUR behalf. We're trying to knock out internet sales of cpap equipment and send the cpap users back through your doors. We're doing this for YOU, ....you DME's...because YOU are our real customers. We're trying to make sure insurance companies and Medicare don't start eyeing the lower prices on the internet and cut back reimbursable rates. See how we're scratching your back even before it itches? Sooooo, how about scratching ours now and stock our machines/masks exclusively?"

There's method in resmed's madness, imho.

I truly do understand the dilemma of people who have found the only mask so far, that works for them, and it might happen to be made by resmed.

I echo Vader's statement:

" I REALLY wish the other guys--ESPECIALLY Respironics, would step up to the plate here, and come up with some great alternatives"

tomjax wrote:I wish Johnny would update us on any communication he has with Resmed.
Is cpcp com one of those permitted to sell Resmed?

Yes. Johnny said cpap.com is one of those permitted to sell Resmed. "CPAP.com will offer Resmed products in October consistent with Resmed policies". Here is his post.

johnnygoodman wrote:Resmed Policies Will Soon Effect CPAP Internet Buyers and Providers

We are compelled to inform you that effective October 1st, Resmed will impose new dealer limitations which will have a profound effect on all those who may be interested in buying Resmed products online. Here are the main points:

1. Resmed has chosen to grant only certain Internet CPAP providers permission to sell their products over the Internet. All other existing Internet providers will no longer be able to buy Resmed products.

2. Resmed is imposing price controls on all of their masks, humidifiers and machines sold over the Internet. This results in price increases for the consumer of 40% to 45% on average and in some cases much more. These price increases do not effect traditional "Brick and Mortar" CPAP providers.

3. Resmed will no longer allow the sale of their software products over the Internet.

Resmed has publicly stated that they are actively working to depress the sales of their products through Internet retailers. We advise anyone wanting to buy Resmed products from an Internet retailer to complete their purchases no later than Saturday, September 30, 2006. CPAP.com will offer Resmed products in October consistent with Resmed policies. Resmed pricing will be much higher and inconsistent with market forces and competitor's offerings.

After speaking with other manufacturers at the Medtrade Convention in Atlanta, it is clear that most are committed to building relationships with all CPAP patients and providers. We think that is the best way forward.

https://www.cpap.com/DisplayNewsletter/25

Regarding Resmed

EACH INDIVIDUAL CONGRESSPERSON IS UP FOR RE-ELECTION EVERY TWO YEARS.

EACH INDIVIDUAL SENATOR IS UP FOR RE-ELECTION EVERY SIX YEARS.

THEY HAVE STAFF. A LOT OF PEOPLE WORKING FOR THEM.

WHEN MY NEIGHBORS HAVE A SERIOUS PROBLEM YOU SHOULD SEE HOW FAST CONGRESSIONAL AND SENATORIAL STAFF RESPOND.

THE CONGRESSPERSONS, THE SENATORS AND THEIR STAFF WORK FOR US.

THEY WANT TO KEEP THEIR JOBS.


I believe that Resmed is in violation of Federal [United States] Law.

Restraint of competition.

Conspiracy to restrain competition.

Vote with your wallet if you choose.

But if you choose.

MULTIPLE, POLITE, COOPERATIVE CALLS TO YOUR UNITED STATES SENATORS.

MULTIPLE, POLITE, COOPERATIVE CALLS TO YOUR UNITED STATES CONGRESSMEN AND OR CONGRESSPERSONS.

MULTIPLE, POLITE, COOPERATIVE FOLLOWUP REGARDING LETTERS TO YOUR FEDERAL ELECTED OFFICIALS.

THE UNITED STATES JUSTICE DEPARTMENT SHOULD BE INFORMED OF THIS.

Look up Pennhurst State School and Hospital vs.Teri Lee Halderman et al on Google if you think the little guy can't win.

I am not an attorney, but I beleive Resmed has no legal leg to stand on.

If I am not mistaken, in The United States, it is a violation of federal law to restrain competitiion, it is also a violation of Federal Law to conspire to restrain competition.

The Justice Department should be informed.

Apple Smaple call and write your elected FEDERAL officials.

Do not ASSUME!!!

WHAT IS THE DOWNSIDE OF CONTACTING YOUR CONGRESSPERSONS AND SENATORS?

ASK YOR FEDERAL ELECTED OFFICIALS TO CONTACT THE DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE REGARDING RESTRAINT OF COMPETITION.

ASK FOR AN OPINION FROM THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT.

USE HALF THE ENERGERY YOU ARE SPENDING ARGUING.

WHAT IS THE DOWNSIDE OF CONTACTING THE STAFF OF A SENATOR?

YOU MIGHT BE SURPRISED AT HOW FAST THE PEOPLE AT THE DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE MIGHT RESPOND WHEN THEY RECEIVE A CALL FROM THE STAFF OF A SENATOR.


ARE WE A BUNCH OF SHEEP?

I would have been dead or been paralysed a long time ago if I assumed.


_________________

CPAPopedia Keywords Contained In This Post (Click For Definition): resmed

_________________

CPAPopedia Keywords Contained In This Post (Click For Definition): resmed

Someone help me with my ignorance.

If the prices are increased by 40 pct or so, then how will dmes be able to bill for resmed products? DO they not get a certain contraacted price or does it vary with cost?
Does it only affect internet who cannot now compete or does it also affect the B/M also?

tomjax wrote:Someone help me with my ignorance.

If the prices are increased by 40 pct or so, then how will dmes be able to bill for resmed products? DO they not get a certain contraacted price or does it vary with cost?
Does it only affect internet who cannot now compete or does it also affect the B/M also?

It's supposed to affect the Internet suppliers who mainly deal on a cash (credit card) basis. Beyond that, don't ask me to TRY to explain their logic on this one.

Best wishes,

Den