Does a FF mask "solve" mouthbreathing?

TheWife · Post by **TheWife** » Sun Sep 17, 2006 5:30 pm

Okay. Hubby is well into month three trying CPAP, and it's not getting better. He's currently using nasal pillows, and not getting any leaking from them. But...he does get some leaking from his mouth. He wears a chin strap, and his jaw is clenched shut, but the air leaks out from his lips anyway.

This morning, I was watching him breathe, and he stopped breathing, the pressure built up, then the air popped out of his mouth, not giving him the benefit of the CPAP. He did eventually take a breath.

He's still tired, still depressed, ready to give up. The first mask he tried was a nasal mask, but he got leakage because he sleeps on his side & stomach, then he changed to the nasal pillows and no more interface leakage.

Would a full face mask solve the problem of mouth breathing? Wouldn't it be more likely to get knocked around during sleep?

He's not overweight, has a longish face, and his jaw already juts forward a bit so we're not sure whether a mouth appliance would work.

So...does a full face mask work for remedying the problems with mouth breathing? We're still waiting for the hybrid to come in (we're in Canada and he's working with a store-front DMS supplier on a trial basis), so that might help too, if he doesn't give up before then. Also, he's does not want to go with mouth taping, so that's not an option.

He definitely gets a better sleep without the CPAP machine than with it, but it's the long-term effects like high blood pressure (which he's had forever), heart problems (two grandparents died suddenly of massive heart attacks, one was only 55), and now borderline type II diabetes that I'm worried about.

Theresa

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salmon · Post by **salmon** » Sun Sep 17, 2006 5:37 pm

Hi there,
Have a problem with mouth breathing, so I use a Fisher and Paykel 431 full face mask, and it works great. It causes a little discomfort on the bridge of the nose for me, but they have a new design out that uses foam in the seal that is supposed to work better. Will be getting one, I guess.
I am also from Canada, and want to try the Hybrid as well.
I recommend a full face mask for sure.

Salmon

tooly125 · Post by **tooly125** » Sun Sep 17, 2006 5:38 pm

Theresa,

Your husband will not see any benefits of his therapy until the mouth leak
issue is resolved.

A full face mask will solve this problem.
I use the Hybrid and like it if it woks for him he will like it if not keep tring until he finds one he likes.
It's well worth it to get his therapy working.

Goofproof · Post by **Goofproof** » Sun Sep 17, 2006 7:29 pm

As long as you mouthbreath, you are in trouble, the FF Mask allows you to mouth breath and still get the required treatment. There are side problems that the FF Mask can't cure, mouthbreathing isn't the way humans were made, if so we wouldn't have a nose. Mouthbreathing is a second chance way to breath, in case the first doesn't work.

The bad thing is for some that's all they have working. If possibly nose breathing is more healthy, and if it works more comfortable. Jim

dsm · Post by **dsm** » Mon Sep 18, 2006 5:26 am

My Ultra Mirage FullFace mask is both my salvation and my security blanket.

But when I can I try nasal pillows masks (am working my way thru a variety of them as part of an evaluation).

When on 15 cms, I can never stay with a nasal or nasal pillows mask for very long before air starts hissing from my mouth in the night. Not nice.

But since dropping my pressure to 13cms, I have stopped using a chinstrap (1st time in 18 months I have not used it) and I seem to be able to go for several nights with a good nasal pillows mask. That is good.

Good luck.

DSM

TheWife · Post by **TheWife** » Mon Sep 18, 2006 8:30 am

Goofproof wrote:As long as you mouthbreath, you are in trouble, the FF Mask allows you to mouth breath and still get the required treatment. There are side problems that the FF Mask can't cure..

I should have said "mouth leaking" instead of "mouthbreathing" as in my husband's case, it's mostly air leaking out of his parted lips when he's using the CPAP, i.e. it pushes the air through his mouth instead of into his lungs.

I wonder if with a full face mask, it wouldn't still work the wrong way, i.e. cycling the air through a circuit in his nose and out through his mouth or vice versa?

He's going in this afternoon so they can read the data from his AutoPAP machine (which was used as a CPAP, but we wanted some data), but he's feeling totally rotten. If it wasn't for the negative long-term effects of untreated OSA, I'd let him give up on it too, the treatment has been so unsuccessful so far.

Theresa
ps: I posted another reply last night, but it never showed up, and this isn't the first time this has happened...

Wulfman · Post by **Wulfman** » Mon Sep 18, 2006 9:24 am

You can call it either one, but it amounts to losing therapy out of the mouth. I agree with the others. He needs to do "WHATEVER IT TAKES" to fix the problem.

For me, my FF mask actually helps to keep my nasal passages open and it's very seldom that my mouth falls open inside it.

Best wishes,

Den

oldgearhead · Post by **oldgearhead** » Mon Sep 18, 2006 9:26 am

The problem I have battled for 5 years is: My mouth relaxes and drops
open the second I drift off the sleep. With a nasal only interface, I must
tape my mouth, as many of you know the 'Blowfish' and gas are the next
demons that attack you as soon as you force your mouth closed.

I am one of the lucky ones, who can wear the Hybrid (with some mods).
Furthermore, i can wear either the medium or large Hybrid nasal pillows (again with a bit of work). Recently I've been battling nighttime congestion. So I'll post my observations:

1) With medium pillows - If one nostril becomes congested, I breathe through my mouth.

2) With large pillows - If one nostril becomes congested, I still keep my mouth closed and just breathe through the other nostril.

3) With large nasal pillows - If both sides are congested, I breathe through my mouth. How do I know when I've been breathing through my mouth? Even with a full-face mask and humidified air, my mouth is very dry when I wake up.

Summary - For me, there is a benfit to using the largest possible nasal pillow.

roster · Post by **roster** » Mon Sep 18, 2006 10:09 am

[quote="TheWife"]

I should have said "mouth leaking" instead of "mouthbreathing" as in my husband's case, it's mostly air leaking out of his parted lips when he's using the CPAP, i.e. it pushes the air through his mouth instead of into his lungs.

I wonder if with a full face mask, it wouldn't still work the wrong way, i.e. cycling the air through a circuit in his nose and out through his mouth or vice versa?

Hosed All Night · Post by **Hosed All Night** » Mon Sep 18, 2006 10:15 am

I used a F&P 431 and love it. Its got one of the simplist to use head gear on the market. I tried the new hybrid and really disliked the noisy vents. At 14/17 it sounds like a wind tunnel. Basically the fewer of and larger the holes, the more air noise. F&P uses many smaller holes that exhausts the same volume of air but cuts the noise level to a fraction of the hybrid.

rudyrx · Post by **rudyrx** » Mon Sep 18, 2006 10:41 am

I agree with the others here after having battled this problem myself. Studies have shown that over 60% of all people on CPAP therapy lose pressure or "breath" throught their mouths, which in essence defeats the purpose of CPAP therapy. I found that few if any respiratory therapists and doctors realize this and just go with the standard nasal mask or pillows.---problem still there with these.
I finally found a comfortable mask for me that solves this problem--the Hybrid mask. I had tried almost every other full face masks on the market after I found that this was also my problem, but I have found the Hybrid to work the best for me. Have him try a Hybrid.
Good luck to you and your hubby.
Rudyrx

TheWife · Post by **TheWife** » Mon Sep 18, 2006 10:44 am

I'm keeping my fingers crossed that they have a Hybrid for him to try when he goes there this afternoon. He woke up this morning looking like death warmed over.

He is a side and stomach sleeper though. Do FF masks and/or the Hybrid work for this or are they prone to getting knocked off, or leaking?

Theresa

rudyrx · Post by **rudyrx** » Mon Sep 18, 2006 10:54 am

TheWife wrote:I'm keeping my fingers crossed that they have a Hybrid for him to try when he goes there this afternoon. He woke up this morning looking like death warmed over.

He is a side and stomach sleeper though. Do FF masks and/or the Hybrid work for this or are they prone to getting knocked off, or leaking?

Theresa

Theresa,
This was one of my biggest problems with full face masks was that I too am a side sleeper. The Hybrid is so compact that this has not been a problem. It is the first mask I have used in years that has let me sleep comfortably through the nite. It stays in place after I have learned the adjust ment factors with it and relaced the original headgear with one from an older mask. I also use an APAP or auto cpap machine with it and this has resolved my issues. I would highly recommend if the Hybrid works that you look into getting an auto cpap machine also if still having problems. After much researchon this topic, I wonder why everyone does not use an ACPAP machine also. At least the two together solved a long standing problem for me.
Rudyrx

oldgearhead · Post by **oldgearhead** » Mon Sep 18, 2006 11:30 am

This appears to be great time to pick up one of
the older RemStar Autos. The overstock is starting to
become available. Yahoo Auctions has 4 right now..

http://auctions.yahoo.com/i::111467092

roster · Post by **roster** » Mon Sep 18, 2006 1:20 pm

TheWife wrote:I'm keeping my fingers crossed that they have a Hybrid for him to try when he goes there this afternoon. He woke up this morning looking like death warmed over.

He is a side and stomach sleeper though. Do FF masks and/or the Hybrid work for this or are they prone to getting knocked off, or leaking?

Theresa

With the Hybrid, I find it easy to sleep on my side without leaks.

Keys to successful use of the Hybrid are selecting the right size mask, selecting the right size pillows, selecting the right pillows height and adjusting the straps. This can take a few nights.

You also have to decide whether to use the chin flap or cut it off. I cut it off and cannot imagine myself being able to use it. However, I believe quite a few people may be successfully using the chin flap. I would like to hear from them - maybe they will chime in on this thread.

Does a FF mask "solve" mouthbreathing?

Does a FF mask "solve" mouthbreathing?

Hubby needs to try Hybrid mask