Death by Ambien/Lunesta/Sonata

Just sitting here and noticed a commercial on the tv in the corner of the study and wondered how many tens of thousands of people with undiagnosed or misdiagnosed sleep apnea are taking these drugs and hastening their own demise?

Lunesta is great stuff. However, everything you drink for two days, tastes
like kerosene.

Actually, according to studies you can read online (besides the drug company sites) and from the two pulmonoligists I have seen, Ambien, Sonata, and Lunesta have nil to no effect on respiratory drive and sleep architecture.

Of course natural sleep is the best however it doesn't work like that all the time, especially in people begining CPAP therapy, or people with chronic insomnia.

Sometimes I do believe doctors prescribe these meds without really looking for the underlying cause of being tired and not being able to sleep...and that includes sleep apnea.

My general doctor was up on things enough to realize what I was telling him warranteed a sleep study and sure enough, sleep apnea was the cause of being tired and not being able to sleep normally.

Later,

Marc

I was fortunate enough NOT to have the bad taste syndrome...I cringed when I first tried Lunesta expecting the worst but it worked out ok...I take it on occassion but don't rely on it for natural sleep...

Ambien on the other hand gave me such a hard sleep...6 hours almost to the minute and that was it for sleep that night...

Marc

Actually Ambien has been shown to help Central Sleep Apnea in initial studies and my nightly data reflects that pretty clearly.

Ambien is often used during sleep studies because it hasn't been shown to affect OSA significantly- and its better for them to get data while you're asleep then laying there counting sheep.

Funny how Ambian has such an exact time on people you can set your watch by it. For me it is four hours and I mean to the minute.

I have noticed however, that when I first started taking it it was seven hours and it gradually got shorter.

Isn't Ambien CR supposed to take care of the issue by controlling the release of the medicine over a number of hours? I have not tried it (I have been able to drastically reduce use of Ambien and it was not easy). Anyone out there using CR and finding it working longer?

My mother uses Ambien prn and since I've been diagnosed with OSA, I've been telling her to tell her MD about her symptoms, which are alot similiar to mine and I'm sure most people with OSA.

I am just wondering, I see alot of people talking about taking these meds on this forum and I'm wondering if I'm the exception, because I never had any problems falling asleep at night or with waking up in the middle of the night. Obviously I was "waking up", but just not realizing it.

My insomnia problems predate my apnea by 20 years, so for me I don't think there is a significant insomnia-apnea connection. However, there are so many variables to this 'whole sleep thing' that I could be wrong.

I am in no way a medical authority on this (only a long-time sufferer), but it make sense that there are a lot of undiagnosed apneacs out there waking up several times during the night and, as way to alleviate the symptoms, are taking sleep meds. However, people with onset insomnia (that would include me) might have apnea, but more likely than not I would think the two conditions would be a coincidence, rather than cause and effect. I wonder if anyone has done any studies on this (it would be fun for once to be proved right ).

Is the consensus then that there isn't increased danger taking Ambien CR if you suffer from apnea?

I just got a script for it and I'm a little leary...

When I was being misdiagnosed with insomnia/stress/depression/nuts/etc (instead of the correct diagnosis of severe osa), the doc prescribed Ambien. When I took it, I was out for the night but the next morning I felt and looked like hell. I now believe the Ambien was "holding me asleep" longer so that I had some very long apneic episodes that night. Dangerous!

Much later, I finally was properly diagnosed and started cpap therapy. One night the mask was really bothering me and I could not get to sleep. I still had the bottle of Ambien so I thought ok the cpap will keep me breathing so I can safely take Ambien. I took one.

The next morning my wife told me to never take one again. About 2:00 a.m. she awoke to the sound of rushing air. My mask was leaking and she could not hear me breathing. The Ambien had such a powerful effect that my wife could not get me awaking by shaking me. She finally turned on the light and readjusted the mask until it stopped leaking and she could hear me breathing again. Wow!

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My comments are based on personal experiences and of course I am NOT a doctor. (Brother is and I hope we are in his will...lol)

Ambien gave me a very hard sleep...knocked out totally...

Lunesta on the other hand is a very soft, smooth sleep, easy to get the person up yet able to go back to sleep fairly quickly.

When I had my sleep study they ball parked the pressure at 9 and gave me a prescription for 8 to 10.

Well...none of those numbers worked for me...couldn't stay asleep, felt like crap the next day. Second sleep study said make it 7 to 9 auto...still no good however on the days the pressure stayed around 7 98 percent of the time I felt pretty good. Above 7 and the bad days came back. So the doctor said lets try Ambien or Lunesta.

As you have experienced, Ambien will keep you asleep but if things are still not correct, as in your brain gets you up with arousals but the Ambien makes it look like your sleeping, you will still feel like crap. It just covers up the problems.

Finally after 7 months (I started this venture Jan 2006), the sleep doctor said since none of this is working for you, try dropping the pressure to 5 or 5.5 and the max at 7.0 since you said this is where you felt half way decent.

Sure enough, I immediately started sleeping through the night and felt great in the morning. My goal was always zero AHI but come to find out, in my case zero AHI wasn't a good thing because I was so pressure sensitive with the arousals etc.

My AHI now varies between 2.0 and 2.8 and I feel great.

I bought a sleep study pulse oximeter and it verifies that I am not having any desaturations at 5.5 to 7 auto.

I lived feeling like garbage for 7 months when all I had to do was lower the pressure a shade and to stop worrying about achieving zero AHI....

Of course for some, zero may be a good thing but I am one of the group that is highly pressure sensitve. Also, all sleep studies showed that I had NO centrals even at 10cm...

Hope this helps!

Marc

Pre-CPAP I had a script for Sonata EVERY night (from my first psychiatrist). I loved it because I slept long and hard, but not so hard that I did not wake up to use the bathroom. He decided to try me on Ambien. WHOA! I took it first on a Saturday night and it made me woozy and dizzy all through Sunday. I was pretty much debilitated. It was almost a 24 hour effect.

BTW, I never felt as rested or as energetic right away as when I used the Sonata. This was at least 3 years before I was tested for apnea. CPAP is great, but not as great as that Sonata sleep for me.

I've tried Ambein but it seem to have little effect on me falling to sleep.(***This was pre-osa dianosed****)

I even have poeple tell me, "it would put me out"

It didn't.