Well, folks... I think I'm giving up...

MichaelM wrote:You might need to address issue one before going onto issue two because if not, a second issue in your life may fail simply due to your depression.

Well, my depression is always worst when I'm A) under stress, or B) over tired.

So I've been kind of hoping that solving the sleep issues would do a lot FOR the depression.

I've tried a number of different depression meds before, and very few of them have been at all helpful. The most recent one that WAS was Wellbutrin, which, when the dose got high enough to help, disturbed my sleep so much that after a week on the effective dose, I was so tired, I fell back into the depression.

Trust me, I've been working on the depression for 20 years now. Apnea is, among other things, one more try in that direction.

But I appreciate the thoughts!

Liam, and would you believe it, I can't think of a pithy signature?

meister wrote:You have the best dry humour in the world and many of us will pay you
to keep posting. Now you got to start getting specific about what
the problems are and we will solve them one at a time. First change
you life insurance beneficiary over to me instead of that old ball-n-chain
just in case none of us can find a solution....

Meister... I'm not sure what to say here. The first 75% of your post was wonderful and humorous and just enough kick-in-the-ass to get me to keep at this....

Then the end. Man.... If that's really true, I'm so sorry. I'd always been told that apnea itself almost never killed anyone (although the side effects of anoxia might, over time). But Wow.... That's definitely a motivator!

Liam, having a moment of silence for Meister's sister.

-SWS wrote:With that said can we at least talk you into a dental appliance so that we might continue to be blessed by your fine wit and engaging coversation, Liam?

A dental appliance? Which is what? I'm searching my memory, and I don't recall that being discussed. Is that one of those "Hold your mouth open manually" things?

Either way, how can I leave when I've started a trend? I'll stick around. You all are wonderful. And it really makes me grin that I make people happy.

(Oh, by the way, the old ball-n... er, I mean, my wife, kindly requests that I ask people to stop calling her the old ball-n-chain. If you do, she promises to try to wear me out each night in order that I might sleep better.)

Liam, who honest to heaven hopes ya'll stop.

For all the reasons given above. Keep on cpap. Do it for yourself . Do it for your family. Just do it. I know its not easy but its all there is to say.

Chris

Liam,

I think you should consult again with your MD, if he/she has no ideas--seek help from someone regarding the depression. Its a circle the no sleep/depression circle. Maybe you should see a shrink, that is all they do is deal with mood problems. Once you get the depression treated, it may be easier to focus on the sleep issue and maybe there are other medications that will work for you that a regular MD wouldn't think about.

I told you about my family history of depression. It is very serious, its not just feeling bad. It to is a disease and needs treatment, no matter what the cause of the depression is, it needs to be treated so you can deal with your life/health.

We are all here for you, even though we have never seen your face. We care about you and want you to feel good and enjoy your life.

Please call your MD tomorrow and if they can't help, find someone who will.

I take Celexa, I've had to try tons of different antidepressents before I found one that worked. You may have to take two or three, who knows, but if it means that you will feel better and be able to live a normal life, who cares how many pills you have to take. Depression is a chemical thing. You can't just "cheer up". Believe me. When my mom suffered from depression and I didn't understand it, I would basically tell her to "cheer up" etc., because I didn't understand it. She died from depression. Most people think that taking pills is a sign of weakness. No depression is as real as it gets and eventually either the apnea or the depression can and will kill you.

Take care of yourself, go see someone who will help you find the answer to what is going on.

Keep in touch,

Heidi


I

Oh, one more thing...

As has been pointed out to me by several people (including my lovely, wonderful wife) that it's kind of stupid to have received another new mask and give up before even trying it.

So to the two people who have asked if I'd sell them the Swift, I think I'm going to retract the offer and open it and try it myself. I'm sorry.

(By the way, my wife, ball and chain jokes aside, really is a wonderful woman, and has stuck with me through some depressions which would scare away my own MOTHER.)

Liam, who, not having seen any more "ball and chain" references, is off to see if she'll pay up tonight.

Could it be that some other drug you are taking is causung the problem.

Melatonin Induces sleep, and so much more
Improves your immune system, helps prevent cholesterol buildup, helps arteries and vessels strong, and is best known for its sleep-inducing ability. Must be adjusted properly to get the maximum results from its sleep inducing effects. Not just for sleep, it stimulates T-cell production to fight infection from viruses and bacteria, and also find and destroy cancer cells. 90% of Melatonin is made in the intestinal tract where it prevents oxidation of intestinal cells and is a free radical scavenger. It suppresses cortisol, a hormone which speeds the aging process

Cheers

Chris

Good boy, Liam, you get out that Swift and give it a shot. I think you'll like it. Be sure to try the various size nasal pillows and if it is too noisy you can put a 3/4" wide piece of vegetable net (like the kind that come over nuts, etc) inside the "barrel". This breaks up the air turbulance and makes the darn thing near silent. You wont' even be able to hear your own breathing.

I prefer the hose attached to the left side since I mostly sleep on the right side, and attached to the hose going over my bedpost so it hangs down. Tried it out of town with it going down to the floor, not attached to the headband, and didn't care much for it that way, but suppose I could get a clamp or something to attach it to the sheet soit wouldn't pull on the mask.

Also remember you don't have to have the straps tight. Fairly loose works well, enough to put two or three fingers underneath. No joke!

And if you ever think again about quitting and leaving us, I want you to look back at this forum and see what kind of response you got. We want you to succeed, and really two weeks is nothing. Why do you think the insurance gives you two months to reach compliance?

Tell the ole b__ oops. Tell your lovely wife we appreciate her sticking with you through all this and that her attitude can make a big difference too.

Remember also, SA CAUSES Depression also. You could be in a vicious cycle. But I agree, you have to treat the depression right now, while you still try to love the Alien.

Liam send us a picture, maybe you're wearing your mask upside down.......

Hang in there.

Liam,

I understand depresssion as many do here. It can wreck your ability to stay asleep. That is a fact. Depression is just a difficult as cpap, sometimes even more difficult.

Liam, please try "Sublingual Melatonin". It comes in 1mb cherry flavored tablets that dissolves under your tongue. Take 3mg's and you are sawing logs. You can buy it at your local GNC. Anytime I have trouble falling asleep, I take it, and it works like a charm.

I know everyone here is trying to help you with suggestions, so I will too.

Sleep hygeine also plays a huge part on how well you sleep. Try no caffiene and no food after 8:00pm. If you are really hungry before you go to bed, have a tablespoon of peanut butter.

Two hours before bedtime, don't watch tv or surf on the computer. Wind down, with no stimulus except reading. This is a good way to read a few books :-0

Most of all, remember, the problems you have today are not the problems you had ten years ago, and they aren't the problems you will have ten years from now.

God bless you my friend,

Ted

seanconnery wrote:Liam send us a picture, maybe you're wearing your mask upside down.......

No, but something you said may give me some idea of why I wake up passing so much gas.

Liam, who always wondered why the straps chafed his thighs so.

Titrator wrote:I understand depresssion as many do here. It can wreck your ability to stay asleep. That is a fact. Depression is just a difficult as cpap, sometimes even more difficult.

Yeah, I know. The problem is, I've been through literally over 20 years of various attempts to solve the depression. I've tried talk therapy (with psychologists, psychiatrists and social workers), I've tried meds, I've tried behavioral therapy... I have NOT tried ECT (shockingly enough), but I don't trust it. Too many sites like this one indicating that the side effects are neither as rare nor as mild as we're told, and the benefits not as long lasting. So I'm kind kind of at my wits end trying to treat the depression itself. I'd kind of come to the conclusion that the depression is a symptom of some other cause, and therefore treating it in its own right will never be successful if I don't treat the root.

Titrator wrote:Please try "Sublingual Melatonin". It comes in 1mb cherry flavored tablets that dissolves under your tongue. Take 3mg's and you are sawing logs. You can buy it at your local GNC. Anytime I have trouble falling asleep, I take it, and it works like a charm.

I'll give it a try. I've got nothing to lose. I have tried Melatonin (as well as a few other OTC sleep remedies) without success, but I don't recall the "sublingual" type, so I'll give it a shot. As you can see, some days, I can fail to sleep even WITHOUT wearing Darth Vader's helmet.

Titrator wrote:Sleep hygeine also plays a huge part on how well you sleep. Try no caffiene and no food after 8:00pm. If you are really hungry before you go to bed, have a tablespoon of peanut butter.

Been there, done that. I don't drink caffiene, except as absolutely needed to keep from falling asleep at work. That's rare, maybe once every couple of weeks I'll have a day that's so bad that I need it to keep me up. Certainly not often enough to account for my occasional sleep difficulties.

Titrator wrote:Two hours before bedtime, don't watch tv or surf on the computer. Wind down, with no stimulus except reading. This is a good way to read a few books

OK, this is just crazy talk. No surfing on the computer? Sir, you must be joking. If I thought I could get away with it, I'd have a wireless interface inserted directly into my subcortex and be on-line 24/7. I don't drink much, don't do caffeine, don't do illegal drugs, don't smoke. But checking e-mail is my one addiction (one might say compulsion).

But maybe you're right, I'll TRY. (Although I doubt TV is the problem, since during the worst of my inabilities to fall asleep, turning on a show can be just the thing to distract me from focusing on not being able to sleep. Next thing I know, it's morning and I have BEEN asleep.)

But I guess I'm starting to become that guy who has an answer for every suggestion. If it was easy, I would have licked it by now. Or if it was cherry flavored. I can never get enough licking of cherry flavored things.

Liam, who when he says he hasn't "had cherry" in a long time, means it in the most benign and literal of ways, you sick minded person you.

Liam, you said you'd never heard SA can kill. Well, loss of sleep in and of itself may not kill but the damage it does to your heart causes strokes and heart attacks. Remember Reggie White? It can actually cause you to lose grey matter in your brain too, resulting in short term memory loss. It can cause extreme drowsiness while you drive. Most major car accidents are caused by people falling asleep at the wheel. How many of those accidents resulted in death or either the driver or the person he hit. If you only hit a tree and live you would be one of the lucky ones, but who wants to take that chance.

You are NOT most likely going to feel a surge of energy when you get your first night's sleep of more than 5 hours. It took you many years of sleep deficit to get where you are and it is going to take a while to get it paid back. Just accept the fact that you will eventually feel that energy in the morning. It took me nearly two months. But looking back, it actually gradually became a fact even sooner, it was so gradual I just didn't notice it.

I'm not good to go for the whole day, still. If I'm not on any medications for alertness like when I drive (yes, without I still get drowsy) I almost always have to take a nap after lunch, which afterwards I feel a bit groggy for 1/2 hour or so, but then I do have energy and alertness until 10 or even later.

I have no idea how long I've had this condition, but I do know the shape I was in at my first sleep study and I was rapidly getting worse. I know the consequences if I don't take this in hand, and I'm determined to live another 50 years or so, so I can beat my great aunt who lived to 110!

Your depression may have started when your SA did. But it obviously hasn't ruined your sense of humor. I think that is what is going to get you through this. I think we all get depressed over things we can't change, over life events that leave us an emotional wreck (loss of children, parents, grandparents, loss of job, money problems to name a few).

I have a friend in dogs who went through a really nasty divorce, moved, bought a house and within a few months, lost 5 of her dogs, and then only a few months later broke her wrist so she couldn't work Without a job she got behind on her house payments and eventually lost her house, had her car impounded for unpaid tickets, spent time in jail, lost her daughter to her ex-husband who was not her daughters natural father, had her older daughter turn against her, had all of her possessions illegally seized from where she was renting, when she ended up in jail because she was unable to pay the rent. Talk about reasons to be depressed! But she isn't. I don't know how. I'd be a mess myself. She's found God again in her life through reading the Bible every day while in jail, she's quit smoking, quit drinking, even beer, and is determined to make a new life for herself. She's living with a friend who has opened her heart and her house to her and what dogs she has left. She has no medical insurance so she hasn't been to a doctor in years. No telling what problems she might have. I personally suspect she might be bipolar, so do others. But she seems to muddle along. She's a very strong woman and she sees light at the end of the tunnel no matter how bad things get.

Look for that light, Liam. It's there just waiting for you, and it will be a bright and sunny day when you get there. Well, maybe it will be raining that particular day, but you'll still feel like you've been reborn. It's just going to take time

Liam,
You say you've fought depression for 20 years, and nothing's worked well. Just a thought, but you are living in New Hampshire, and that's not the world's greatest place for sunlight. Have you looked into SAD or SADD? Even in the summer, in New Hampshire, you're not going to get much good sunlight (UVB) and you'll probably be in work during the brief time you could get the sun.
Just another suggestion, but you might want to try some cod liver oil (Carlson's lemon flavor isn't too bad) and try to get some sun around noon every day.
And please, whatever you do, don't leave the board. We LIKE you. We always read your posts (often first) just for the laughs. We look forward to your signature lines (and try our own hand at them). Please, please, please don't leave.
The idea of wearing just the mask for a few minutes at a time is a good one. Wear it when you're doing something you have to think about, so you really don't have time to think about the mask, and you may just start forgetting you have it on. Once you do that, you're well on the way to being able to sleep with it on.
And everything takes time to adjust to. You got hit with it all at once. The machine, the mask, the humidifier - I started with only the mask and the machine. And I was used to wearing masks, so that wasn't a major issue. I have asthma, and have had to wear oxygen masks occasionally all my life. I've also done a little snorkaling and tried scuba once, so the idea of something on my face in order to breath wasn't really an issue. But it still took a little while to adjust to the idea of it in bed at night, and to get used to the sound of the machine.
Stick around Liam, please.
Debbie

snoozin' wrote:Just a thought, but you are living in New Hampshire, and that's not the world's greatest place for sunlight. Have you looked into SAD or SADD? Even in the summer, in New Hampshire, you're not going to get much good sunlight (UVB) and you'll probably be in work during the brief time you could get the sun.

Yep, I had one of those "Full Spectrum" lamps (prescribed, my other major experience with DMEs) for the winter about 5 years ago. No effect. Interestingly, at that time, they had some studies out that seemed to show that the lamps worked just as well if you shined them on the back of your bare knees as if you looked into them. So I tried both.

I really think the depression is an attribute either of stress or insomnia, because it always seems to hit (or at least, hit worst) when I'm overtired and/or under a lot of stress. The question, of course, is does the stress cause the depression itself, or does the stress cause me to not sleep well, which causes the depression.

But that's why I get so frustrated, because even though I tried not to, I had such high hopes that with the machine, I'd start getting much more restful sleep, start having the energy to exercise regularly again, and start waking up cheerful again.

And thanks again for the kind words about my posts. Those alone are doing a lot to raise my spirits these last few days.

Liam, who enjoyed the full spectrum light, because at long last, he could claim to be BRIGHT.