Tremendous success with MAD device, no longer need CPAP

Hi everyone,

This will probably be my last post on CPAPTalk since I no longer need the CPAP machine anymore. Two months ago, I purchased a boil-and-bite MAD device that pulls your jaw forward as I didn't want to lug my CPAP machine around when traveling overseas. To my surprise, the first night I used the device, I slept soundly and woke up more refreshed than I have ever in many many years. This was the same night after night, until I retired my CPAP once and for all. Now before I move on, I know that there is a crusade against anything non-CPAP on this forum, and I understand it. I was skeptical that such a simple device could cure my problems too... That's why I bought an overnight oximeter to see what was going on. The results were quite amazing.

http://imgur.com/a/BwRyJ



As you can see, my heart rate was quite stable with only variations where I guess I was in REM sleep. The oxygen saturation did not drop below 92% at all and mostly stayed above 95%. This is coming from someone who had an AHI of 37 and lowest oxsat of 69%!

So to those who are still struggling with CPAP, it probably wont hurt to look into one of these devices. I'm eternally glad that I did, and I hope that they can also help you.
Now I know there will still be some people who will shout "witchcraft!" and brandish me for not using my CPAP any longer. But to me, the oximetry results and the burst of energy that I get every morning simply speaks for itself...

Best wishes to all.

Hopefully you are right, but, without a sleep study you will never know. If only a MAD device was needed, there would be millions running to the drug store. Just determining that your O2 was good during the night does not mean you do not have SA. If only an O2 device was needed to determine SA, Sleep Labs would be out of business. (I suggest you keep your CPAP for a while). Good Luck

Mad devices are normally recommended as a option for mild to moderate sleep disordered breathing.
It's worth a Try before going to Xpap.
In your case you tried Xpap first.
Did Xpap not work for you or is it that you could just not get use to using it and the inconvenience?
Glad you found a simple solution to your problem.
as previously mentioned without a sleep study using your Mad device you won't really know for sure.
Hang on to the Cpap Machine and all you learned just in case.

I agree overnight oximetry is a good idea to follow up the MAD oral appliance. However, if this person reports their sleep is much better with the MAD than with CPAP, I'd follow their own reports about how they feel.

Custom made oral appliances are not available OTC. The devices you refer to in the drugstore are only FDA approved for simple snoring, not mild to moderate OSA. Most of the OTC boil and bite OA devices are not truly custom made and also they are not as comfortable as say, a Somnodent Flex. Which is truly custom made.

The times they are a changin and if some people dont like it, tough. I can understand the fear among those who have severe apnea, who are terrified and I literally mean many of them are terrified they might somehow someday lose access to their CPAP machines. Thats simply not going to ever be the case.

There is a need for some device to treat milder forms of sleep disordered breathing, as well as moderate forms of sleep disordered breathing. Oral appliancers (custom made that are comfortable) may very well be second line for OSA.

Just wait til the pharmaceutical industry comes up with an effective, FDA approved OSA drug. Oh my God, the heads are gonna roll in the CPAP world.

LSAT wrote:Hopefully you are right, but, without a sleep study you will never know. If only a MAD device was needed, there would be millions running to the drug store. Just determining that your O2 was good during the night does not mean you do not have SA. If only an O2 device was needed to determine SA, Sleep Labs would be out of business. (I suggest you keep your CPAP for a while). Good Luck

Congratulations. And dont let the naysayers on this forum get you down.

tl424 wrote:Hi everyone,

This will probably be my last post on CPAPTalk since I no longer need the CPAP machine anymore. Two months ago, I purchased a boil-and-bite MAD device that pulls your jaw forward as I didn't want to lug my CPAP machine around when traveling overseas. To my surprise, the first night I used the device, I slept soundly and woke up more refreshed than I have ever in many many years. This was the same night after night, until I retired my CPAP once and for all. Now before I move on, I know that there is a crusade against anything non-CPAP on this forum, and I understand it. I was skeptical that such a simple device could cure my problems too... That's why I bought an overnight oximeter to see what was going on. The results were quite amazing.

http://imgur.com/a/BwRyJ



As you can see, my heart rate was quite stable with only variations where I guess I was in REM sleep. The oxygen saturation did not drop below 92% at all and mostly stayed above 95%. This is coming from someone who had an AHI of 37 and lowest oxsat of 69%!

So to those who are still struggling with CPAP, it probably wont hurt to look into one of these devices. I'm eternally glad that I did, and I hope that they can also help you.
Now I know there will still be some people who will shout "witchcraft!" and brandish me for not using my CPAP any longer. But to me, the oximetry results and the burst of energy that I get every morning simply speaks for itself...

Best wishes to all.

A good strategy for mild to moderate OSA where you cant tolerate CPAP, is to use a custom made OA like a Somnodent. But keep an Autopap in your closet for backup and for times when you get a flu or cold or sinusitis and your nose is stuffed up. Then switch to the Autopap for a few days. Im already putting together my oral appliance strategy.

In my case I have upper and lower removable dentures. Would the MAD device work for me? With my current APAP I remove the lower denture for the night.

Hi,

As one who doesn't have O2 desats, I agree with LSAT's advice that you need a sleep study to make sure your MAD device has eliminated the apnea. Not an issue of being a skeptic but having verifiable data that your device is working.

I tried a Somnodent Herbst Device and found it even more intolerable than wearing a CPAP mask which has been a struggle for me. What greatly scared me was my jaw was already out of alignment after three hours of use.

But I wish you all the luck in the world.

I stronly suggest that you pack your CPAP machine and not get rid of it. Also, I suggest running it for an hour once a week so the seals don't dry out and so you know it's working.

You don't need it now, but please keep an open mind should you need it again in the future.

LSAT wrote: Just determining that your O2 was good during the night does not mean you do not have SA.

What problems would somebody have if their SA wasn't severe enough to cause desats or arousals, and they get good sleep?

sc0ttt wrote:

LSAT wrote: Just determining that your O2 was good during the night does not mean you do not have SA.

What problems would somebody have if their SA wasn't severe enough to cause desats or arousals, and they get good sleep?

sleep apnea, by definition causes arousals and fractured sleep.

therefore your question doesn't make sense.

if there's no arousals, and good sleep, then they don't have sleep apnea.

palerider wrote:

sc0ttt wrote:

LSAT wrote: Just determining that your O2 was good during the night does not mean you do not have SA.

What problems would somebody have if their SA wasn't severe enough to cause desats or arousals, and they get good sleep?

sleep apnea, by definition causes arousals and fractured sleep.

therefore your question doesn't make sense.

if there's no arousals, and good sleep, then they don't have sleep apnea.

Well more to the point, the MAD is treating the sleep apnea adequately, right?
If a sleep apnea sufferer tries a MAD and has good oximetry reports, and self-reports good sleep with no arousals - that would mean they don't really need another sleep test, true? Especially if they get a good score on the Berlin Questionnaire or similar tool.

sc0ttt wrote: . . .

Well more to the point, the MAD is treating the sleep apnea adequately, right?
If a sleep apnea sufferer tries a MAD and has good oximetry reports, and self-reports good sleep with no arousals - that would mean they don't really need another sleep test, true?

Perhaps so, but I just don't have the confidence in such a device that I have in CPAP.

sc0ttt wrote:

palerider wrote:

sc0ttt wrote:

LSAT wrote: Just determining that your O2 was good during the night does not mean you do not have SA.

What problems would somebody have if their SA wasn't severe enough to cause desats or arousals, and they get good sleep?

sleep apnea, by definition causes arousals and fractured sleep.

therefore your question doesn't make sense.

if there's no arousals, and good sleep, then they don't have sleep apnea.

Well more to the point, the MAD is treating the sleep apnea adequately, right?
If a sleep apnea sufferer tries a MAD and has good oximetry reports, and self-reports good sleep with no arousals - that would mean they don't really need another sleep test, true? Especially if they get a good score on the Berlin Questionnaire or similar tool.

Possibly, but not everyone has daytime symptoms (or symptoms at all). My journey to get tested was because of my excessive snoring (reported by my wife). I think it's great that the OP has some apparent success with a dental device. Given the history, I would probably opt for a home sleep study just to see how things are going, if it was me. If all showed good there for a couple of nights, I'd be more than happy with that. I think dental appliances can be a good alternative..if they actually work for the individual in question .

For me, I tried an OTC device, and it worked reasonably well for snoring, but didn't completely eliminate the issue, and I suffered from serious problems with teeth movement. To the OP, that's something you'll want to keep a close eye on. I think the OTC devices are even more prone to cause this issue, as the force isn't spread out very well over your bottom teeth. If you have an overbite, the forces on you teeth can get pretty high.

D.H. wrote: Perhaps so, but I just don't have the confidence in such a device that I have in CPAP.

Hey me either; and most people who try this are in denial or just can't tolerate CPAP. But I think it's reasonable for someone who's honest with themselves to be able to evaluate whether or not it's working without another sleep study.

*oxymetry
*self-report of sleep quality and tiredness
*sleep partner or video