Choosing a Battery

To CapnLoki

I just got this delivered today, https://www.amazon.com/FLOUREON-18000mA ... B071JY1T94. I bought it for starting my 5.3L GMC 2009, got caught a 1.5 year ago with dead battery. at the store, two jumpers at home, not much help.

When someone helped me took it to Dealership, paid the max for new battery. Since then both jumpers died. saw this thought nothing that small can jump by big truck, but at the price, I used my NO Clean Money Fund. I weights about 3 lb, I carry that much, on a good day. Came in nice case, even has a cable to HD Cigar Socket. I don't have the 12 volt cable for my Remstar Tank. I would like try it out for my XPAP, mainly for my ???.

Selling for $69 + Tax, Got mine $40 + Tax. Special on NewEgg. To bad Radio Shack's gone. Built many projects with their stuff. Some stuff was crap but some was very good, buy crap expect crap. Taught me a lot, but nowdays people are beyond being able to leat how things work, much less repair them.

If I ever get around to making the cable I'll post the results, just from looks of the produce I'm impressed, looks better than I expected, not if it will just work as well. came charged 76% pumping it full mow, doesn't seem hardly warm yet. Jim

Goofproof wrote: ↑

Mon Jul 30, 2018 1:23 pm

... saw this thought nothing that small can jump by big truck ...

It seems like magic until you do the math - Assume 60 amps for a small starter, then a full minute cranking is only 1 Amp-hour! Most cars now start in a few seconds, so even the bigger load of a small truck isn't that much. So the issue isn't the total energy in the battery, its how fast it can be delivered. Today's Lithium cells can be built to different design points - long life, fast charge, fast discharge, long shelf life, constant output voltage, low cost, etc. You can't have everything, but they can do things that seem magical compared to traditional lead-acid!

The stock, non-performance Tesla I have on order can do 0-60 in 4.5 seconds! It has about 4000 of these cells.

BTW, this unit is only about 5 amp-hours at 12V, so its pretty small as a backup.

CapnLoki wrote: ↑

Mon Jul 30, 2018 2:58 pm

Goofproof wrote: ↑

Mon Jul 30, 2018 1:23 pm

... saw this thought nothing that small can jump by big truck ...

It seems like magic until you do the math - Assume 60 amps for a small starter, then a full minute cranking is only 1 Amp-hour! Most cars now start in a few seconds, so even the bigger load of a small truck isn't that much. So the issue isn't the total energy in the battery, its how fast it can be delivered. Today's Lithium cells can be built to different design points - long life, fast charge, fast discharge, long shelf life, constant output voltage, low cost, etc. You can't have everything, but they can do things that seem magical compared to traditional lead-acid!

The stock, non-performance Tesla I have on order can do 0-60 in 4.5 seconds! It has about 4000 of these cells.

BTW, this unit is only about 5 amp-hours at 12V, so its pretty small as a backup.

I'm Old School, big old school, the machines I worked on used two 8N Lead Acid Batteries, in series for 24 volts, never tested the cranking amps but they weighed about 80 lbs each. One machine used a bank of 12 of those batteries, for lights and starters.

People buy these little start packs, then cry when they don't work out, in reality it's their car not being drive worthy in the first place. In the car starters drew 200 to 400 amps, for up to a minute, my truck fires up in 15 seconds or less, except when I was running the radio for a half hour, the battery was on it's last legs, and gave me no warning. All that computing power and no warning except a light. I'll probably not try it on my cpap. Like I said it was No Clean Money. Jim

Charged right up, stayed cool.

CapnLoki wrote: ↑

Mon Jul 30, 2018 9:41 am

trekwars2000 wrote: ↑

Sun Jul 29, 2018 12:55 pm

Okay, I read the first 4 pages and think I've got most of what needs to happen for the setup. First a background and then I have some questions:
...

Congratulations! Even I have trouble getting through the first four pages!

If by "tent camping" you mean the car is close to the tent, I would consider a 100 AH AGM battery (about $170 prime) which should give you plenty to spare. I lean towards overkill when it comes to batteries. I like the 2 battery approach especially if you're lugging them around, but with two you never quite optimize the usage. On my boat I have 4 batteries but jumper them together as one bank.

On humidity - I never use it on the boat or when travelling to humid areas, but I certainly took it on a trip to Palm Springs. Camping at altitude is a problem - you should check the dew points and night temps where you camp because the Relative Humidity may not be not be that bad at night. A dew point of 50 degrees is low on a hot day, but humid on a cold night. You certainly want to try to get by on the lowest possible setting. On my Respironics 560 I think I got it down to 4 AH a night by using a setting of 2 and no heated hose. You could experiment at home by cranking the A/C for a night to simulate the environment. The are other options, like the new lozenges that stimulate saliva, or the non-powered HME gadgets that go on the hose. And there might be a different mask that helps. You might find you can do away with power humidity, which would simply your life!

There are probably ways that you could tap into the power of your hybrid - but in the long run the "overkill" solution is only $100 more than the minimal solution, so why bother even going there? I can't count the number of times I've thought in retrospect, "I would have gladly paid $100 to avoid that hassle!"

Okay, I think you've just convinced me to get the 70 lb 100 AH battery. The car is normally no more than 100 feet from the tent.

As for the weather stuff... I am a weather geek, have my own weather station, so I'm tracking completely on what you are saying. There is a weather station on wunderground about 800 feet lower and 2-3 miles from the campsite. It also has it's own website with some nice historical graphs, etc: https://mtcharlestonweather.com/

Right now it's the monsoon season here so the humidity is up and the dewpoints are up. I've checked the last few nights and temps are around mid to high 50s, the dewpoints are all between 40 and 50 degrees and humidity is generally 50-70% overnight right now. I'm 800 feet higher so the temp is probably 2-4 degrees less. I'm guessing if it stays this way I do not need the water in my tanks.

In the dry season (I took June 21 overnight), the temp was around 50, humidity mostly in the teens (high of 20-25% at 0620) and dewpoint in the single digits. I'm guessing that I'd want the humidification in my CPAP then. In fact, last night I forgot to refill my tank. Checking my weather station, my bedroom was 73 degrees and 49% humidity. I woke up at 0430 parched gasping for water. If the calculator I'm using is right that is a dewpoint of 52. So perhaps I will want it even in the above example.

All things to think about. I am assuming if I heat the water a bit before filling the tank that will help, however, with the 100 AH battery I really don't have to worry for a two day trip. I'm guessing I'd be good for 3 and need to start worrying for a 4 day trip.

I guess before I buy the stuff I'll list it here for inputs. Most on Amazon:
Battery: 100AH Battery - $170
Battery Connector: NOCO GC018 12V Adapter Plug Socket with Eyelet Terminal - $7
Battery Case: Group 27 Case - $13
Battery Charger: Battery Tender 12V@5A - $56
DC/DC converter:ResMed Covt - $72 (I have a 20% coupon)

Questions on the above:
1) Do I have the right battery connector to the DC/DC converter?
2) Is this the right battery tender? Do I need anything else to connect this to charge the battery?
3) If I get something like this splitter do I have anything to worry about?

Am I missing anything?

trekwars2000 wrote: ↑

Mon Jul 30, 2018 9:26 pm

I guess before I buy the stuff I'll list it here for inputs. Most on Amazon:
Battery: 100AH Battery - $170
Battery Connector: NOCO GC018 12V Adapter Plug Socket with Eyelet Terminal - $7
Battery Case: Group 27 Case - $13
Battery Charger: Battery Tender 12V@5A - $56
DC/DC converter:ResMed Covt - $72 (I have a 20% coupon)

Questions on the above:
1) Do I have the right battery connector to the DC/DC converter?
2) Is this the right battery tender? Do I need anything else to connect this to charge the battery?
3) If I get something like this splitter do I have anything to worry about?

Am I missing anything?

Your logic and setup look OK. I think if you can keep the humidity low you probably can get 4 nights with the big battery. Heating the water from 70 to 170 degrees saves 2 amp-hours. Just don't do it with an electric stove!

The NOCO socket will work fine, but the BatteryTender should come with this connector:
https://www.amazon.com/Battery-Tender-0 ... B000NCOKZQ
When you disconnect the charger you can plug in this:
https://www.amazon.com/Battery-Tender-0 ... B0041CDPQO cost is about $10
If you want to run the charger and the pump at the same time, or have multiple sockets you can use a splitter.
https://www.amazon.com/NOCO-ISCC2-5-Way ... B003L643KS

There are a number of other SAE connector products that you might find useful.

The 12V socket looks nice but I'm always a bit skeptical of adding more gadgets to system. In particular, the 12V socket is a bit flaky so adding another item inline does't help. I might go with this version:
https://www.amazon.com/Rocketek-2-socke ... B07F1P8J5P
which can be had with a wire pigtail that would give a bit of strain relief. Or use the splitter above and add a second socket.

Okay, I've got everything now ready to go. Battery came full. I will report back next week as to how it went.

Just bought this setup from Amazon - it works PERFECTLY!
I have a Dreamstation and connecting via the plug is perfect.
After a night's use (uninterrupted) - put the battery tender on and it was charged in about an hour.
Thanks CapnLoki! - Rich

P.S. Any suggestions on an Amp-Hour meter that you mentioned? How would I connect it to your setup? Thanks again!

What a great thread! This motocamper is extremely grateful for the work done by @CapnLoki!

I have a quick question: Has anyone succeeded in using a Heat & Moisture Exchanger in place of humidification? Sorry if its been asked, but the search engine here is....lacking.

I see that ResMed have their own HME option (HumidX), but they're expensive. Medical HMEs can be bought off the shelf for about $2 each.

They're a disposable item (largely) and can trap 75% of the moisture from your exhalation, which then comes back on your inhalation.

Might not be as good as full blown humidification, but could be a nice mid-point!

frggr_ wrote: ↑

Mon Nov 26, 2018 7:31 pm

What a great thread! This motocamper is extremely grateful for the work done by @CapnLoki!

I have a quick question: Has anyone succeeded in using a Heat & Moisture Exchanger in place of humidification? Sorry if its been asked, but the search engine here is....lacking.

I see that ResMed have their own HME option (HumidX), but they're expensive. Medical HMEs can be bought off the shelf for about $2 each.

They're a disposable item (largely) and can trap 75% of the moisture from your exhalation, which then comes back on your inhalation.

Might not be as good as full blown humidification, but could be a nice mid-point!

HME's have been mentioned a number of times, but not in this thread. I keep thinking I should get some because I frequently travel without a humidifier. You should start another thread with this as the topic.

CapnLoki wrote: ↑

Mon Nov 26, 2018 8:38 pm

HME's have been mentioned a number of times, but not in this thread. I keep thinking I should get some because I frequently travel without a humidifier. You should start another thread with this as the topic.

I'll give that a go. Thanks. I'm working with a friend who's quite....talented in this area (he put the idea to me, actually). I'll make a thread to log progress

I have two machines, a respironics system one and a respironics M series (both auto bipap). I am trying to figure out the power draw without using humidifier for a upper pressure of 12, lower pressure of 8.

Respironics told me the system one (760p) uses 6.6 amps per hour, and the series M uses 3 amps per hour.

I have a 220 watt hour lithium battery. Using DC current, what is the calculation that will tell me how long these will (supposedly) last?

Anyone?

Z

Hi Capn Loki, thanks much for the great info on battery backup.

The Lithium batteries keep getting more powerful per pound, with more features. I just came across this one that seems powerful enough to run CPAP for at least a few nights, and it already has 110V inverter built in. What do you think of this as a CPAP battery backup?
https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/ ... 537cXUZ7qN

I have been selling a portable solar charging kit, www.skybeesolar.com, and I am thinking to add a bigger battery option because several people have asked me if the battery now included can power their CPAP. No, the included battery is not big enough at 6Ah, and does not have 12V output. So I appreciate advice about these big new Lithium batteries. As you can see from their site, they are ready to custom build batteries so if you can spec out your "dream" CPAP battery solution, I could order some and put them on Amazon for community.

skyhiker wrote: ↑

Wed Mar 06, 2019 10:57 am

Hi Capn Loki, thanks much for the great info on battery backup.

The Lithium batteries keep getting more powerful per pound, with more features. I just came across this one that seems powerful enough to run CPAP for at least a few nights, and it already has 110V inverter built in. What do you think of this as a CPAP battery backup?
https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/ ... 537cXUZ7qN

This look similar to a number of lithium packs but it has a few issues. I don't see a 12V output which would be highly desired to get the most out of the battery. Running on the inverter is going to waste almost half the power. At 154 watt-hours its too big to carry on an airplane, but without 12V output it won't go more than two nights for camping.

skyhiker wrote: ↑

Wed Mar 06, 2019 10:57 am

I have been selling a portable solar charging kit, www.skybeesolar.com, and I am thinking to add a bigger battery option because several people have asked me if the battery now included can power their CPAP. No, the included battery is not big enough at 6Ah, and does not have 12V output. So I appreciate advice about these big new Lithium batteries. As you can see from their site, they are ready to custom build batteries so if you can spec out your "dream" CPAP battery solution, I could order some and put them on Amazon for community.

My "dream cpap lithium battery"? Well, to be honest, I don't use lithium packs with a cpap because it don't use it on a plane, and I don't hike, so my needs (boating and home backup) are better served by lead acid.

That said, here's to two needs I see: Cpap batteries for airline use are limited to 100 watt-hours (you should check the actual regs) so it would be nice to have a pack of the max size the can feed a 12v adapter for a pump. There are several such units but they tend to be priced at $250-300, a $100 version might sell pretty well. The other need is a bigger version - how much bigger is anyone's guess, but 150 wh doesn't add a lot. 400 to 600 watt-hours are interesting because the could power a pump for a number of days but still be light enough to hike with. There are several such units on the market now but its evolving so fast that there's probably room for a newcomer.

I use a lithium battery in my kayak. Some awesome developments for campiing,kayaking, airplaning. My airline American let me take a 222 wh battery, with preauthorization (to use during the flight).
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B06ZX ... UTF8&psc=1
3 nights no humidifier

For car camping (carrying battery to tent, don't want to carry a lead acid, this even better, the best with a case with wiring hookups, direct current 12 volt plug, meters:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01DO ... UTF8&psc=1
at least 5 nights no humidifier

drzman49 wrote: ↑

Wed Mar 06, 2019 1:30 pm

I use a lithium battery in my kayak. Some awesome developments for campiing,kayaking, airplaning. My airline American let me take a 222 wh battery, with preauthorization (to use during the flight).
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B06ZX ... UTF8&psc=1
3 nights no humidifier

For car camping (carrying battery to tent, don't want to carry a lead acid, this even better, the best with a case with wiring hookups, direct current 12 volt plug, meters:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01DO ... UTF8&psc=1
at least 5 nights no humidifier

These are good products for someone with deep pockets. The first is nice, assuming you can get it on the plane. However, the second is over $300 plus shipping for only 30 amp-hours. Yes, its nice that its only 8 pounds, but you can have a 35 AH AGM for only $65. It may be 24 pounds, but if you're only lugging it a short distance its not worth it to me to pay 5 times as much! (not that I would be car camping at all!)