OT: Need an affordable Epi autoinjector?

Goofproof wrote:Good Marketing, makes big $$$

How Marketing Turned the EpiPen Into a Billion-Dollar Business
Mylan’s marketing turned the allergy device into a must-have.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/ ... r-business

Julie wrote:A problem that doesn't exist? What do you call an anaphylactic reaction to e.g. peanuts that comes on very quickly and kills soon afterward without intervention? What are you talking about?

You don't make kids take 4 shots a day of anything for something that may never take place at all... that's crazy!

Sorry, very poorly written sentence. Palerider got it, but I can sure see how you missed my meaning.

I meant. Diabetic children will take 4 or more shots per day and learn to self inject at an early age but until then always given by an adult (how do I know this? I am a Type 1)

So my point was, why do we need this expensive device to give a shot? That is what I meant about a solution to a problem that doesn't exist. If I understand correctly, most Epipens expire before they are ever used.

chunkyfrog wrote:The automatic injector is intended for very fast use, often by someone
whose condition is rapidly deteriorating, maybe even close to losing consciousness.
The injection needs to be administered by someone with no experience, if necessary.
No one treats allergy with insulin. This is making no sense at all.
Not having epinephrine available could mean DEATH for someone with a severe allergy.

I never suggested treating an allergy with insulin; I suggested having teachers, parents and older children trained to give a shot. It is really not that hard, I could have done it 3 times in the time it took to type this sentence. I understand the Epipen is a convenience but it is so ridiculously priced it is not really a convenience at all if you cannot afford it. There are many auto injectors for insulin, I have tried a few but always went back to just giving the shot. I know epinephrine requires a larger needle but it is still just a matter of pulling the correct dose, plunging the needle into the thigh and pushing the plunger.

I am not against an autoinjector like the epipen, just the price and reading one of the links here it sounds like using a needle is how allergies were handled for a long time and a very low cost until Mylan used their lobbyist to get politicians to go along with their plan; I think I also read the CEO's father is or was a congressman. Sounds like more government corruption to me.

flightco wrote:I suggested having teachers, parents and older children trained to give a shot.

You just don't want to understand. Train someone to give a shot. It may be 15 years before they ever need to take action. And then, they must take action quickly under stressful and frightening circumstances.

Wise up. Educate yourself. ----> http://www.scibabe.com/epipen/

ChicagoGranny wrote:

flightco wrote:I suggested having teachers, parents and older children trained to give a shot.

You just don't want to understand. Train someone to give a shot. It may be 15 years before they ever need to take action. And then, they must take action quickly under stressful and frightening circumstances.

Wise up. Educate yourself. ----> http://www.scibabe.com/epipen/

No problem, just let parents pay the 700 bucks every 12 months.

ChicagoGranny wrote:

flightco wrote:I suggested having teachers, parents and older children trained to give a shot.

You just don't want to understand. Train someone to give a shot. It may be 15 years before they ever need to take action. And then, they must take action quickly under stressful and frightening circumstances.

Wise up. Educate yourself. ----> http://www.scibabe.com/epipen/

Decided to see what is involved in using an Epipen, sounds like it is not a brainless as you make it seem. This is from the website. Does not sound to me like someone can not prepare for 15 years and all of the sudden in an emergency know how to use the Epipen... Trainers, videos, practice?

Don't wait until an emergency to learn how to use your EpiPen® Auto‑Injector. Watch the video below for the correct technique. Practice with your EpiPen® Trainers. And make sure everyone who may need to use EpiPen® Auto‑Injector for you or your child or children with potentially life-threatening (severe) allergies does the same. You may order additional EpiPen® Trainers (they're free!) for grandparents, babysitters or anyone else who may one day need to administer EpiPen® Auto‑Injector.

However, I imagine there's some protocol for re-training yearly, if not more often... seems rational.

My granddaughter is highly allergic to peanuts and cashews. The entire family has carried Epipens since she was a year old, and had to rush her to the ER. She is now almost 14 and no one has ever had to use a Epipen. So, CG is right... you may go 15 years and never use one. My daughter is fortunate... she has good insurance and she gets 6 Epipens for something like $45.

Granddaughter has been in a double-blind study at Stanford for two and a half years. She is now at the point that if she sits next to someone eating a P&J sandwich or eats in a restaurant, there isn't much of a worry. That's huge. She continues with this particular study for another year and then they will start on the cashews. Hopefully, when she is older she will no longer have to be concerned with this. We are blessed she was able to get into this study.

flightco wrote:

Julie wrote:A problem that doesn't exist? What do you call an anaphylactic reaction to e.g. peanuts that comes on very quickly and kills soon afterward without intervention? What are you talking about?

You don't make kids take 4 shots a day of anything for something that may never take place at all... that's crazy!

Sorry, very poorly written sentence. Palerider got it, but I can sure see how you missed my meaning.

I meant. Diabetic children will take 4 or more shots per day and learn to self inject at an early age but until then always given by an adult (how do I know this? I am a Type 1)

So my point was, why do we need this expensive device to give a shot? That is what I meant about a solution to a problem that doesn't exist. If I understand correctly, most Epipens expire before they are ever used.

The day before it expires, eat or do whatever triggers your reaction, that way you can use it instead of wasting it. (For the Dumb: Do Not Follow That Advice), just Joking..... Epipens, a costly solution for people too dumb to give themselves a simple injection. Odd's are they wouldn't be carrying it when they needed it anyway.

I worried when they sent us into combat, without a gas mask or a Atropine Auto Injector, to counteract nerve agents (Gas), when seconds are life and death. We weren't valuable enough, you could just draft more of us. At least unlike, War Dogs, they shipped us home, most of us anyway. Jim

Goofproof wrote:

flightco wrote:

Julie wrote:A problem that doesn't exist? What do you call an anaphylactic reaction to e.g. peanuts that comes on very quickly and kills soon afterward without intervention? What are you talking about?

You don't make kids take 4 shots a day of anything for something that may never take place at all... that's crazy!

Sorry, very poorly written sentence. Palerider got it, but I can sure see how you missed my meaning.

I meant. Diabetic children will take 4 or more shots per day and learn to self inject at an early age but until then always given by an adult (how do I know this? I am a Type 1)

So my point was, why do we need this expensive device to give a shot? That is what I meant about a solution to a problem that doesn't exist. If I understand correctly, most Epipens expire before they are ever used.

.

I worried when they sent us into combat, without a gas mask or a Atropine Auto Injector, to counteract nerve agents (Gas), when seconds are life and death. We weren't valuable enough, you could just draft more of us. At least unlike, War Dogs, they shipped us home, most of us anyway. Jim

Jim, thank you for your service...

To be clear, I have no objections to the EpiPen, if it were me, I believe I would prefer it. I am just objecting to those who act like there are no reasonable options to spending 700 bucks every 12 months

Julie wrote:However, I imagine there's some protocol for re-training yearly, if not more often... seems rational.

Agreed, I think a refresher is needed on a routine basis but the same could be said for taking a shot. I think schools get EpiPens for next to nothing so that is not the issue, the patient and those around them would need to know the correct dosage and how to administer it with a vial and syringe and would need to review this routinely. I remember my mom in nursing school, she would practice giving shots to oranges before she had to give one to a person. She would draw a given dosage from a vial of saline and inject it into the orange.

I am not anti-EpiPen, I am tired of the complainers who say they have no choice which is what has allowed the company to raise the price so much. Tell them you are not going to use the EpiPen and watch what happens to the pricing.

flightco wrote:...I think a refresher is needed on a routine basis but the same could be said for taking a shot. I think schools get EpiPens for next to nothing so that is not the issue, the patient and those around them would need to know the correct dosage and how to administer it with a vial and syringe and would need to review this routinely.

Epipens are pre-filled. No need to know the correct dosage. Administering is quick and simple.

Epipens are given by the parents to the school, and are returned (if not used) to parents at the end of the school year.

Lucyhere wrote:

flightco wrote:...I think a refresher is needed on a routine basis but the same could be said for taking a shot. I think schools get EpiPens for next to nothing so that is not the issue, the patient and those around them would need to know the correct dosage and how to administer it with a vial and syringe and would need to review this routinely.

Epipens are pre-filled. No need to know the correct dosage. Administering is quick and simple.

Epipens are given by the parents to the school, and are returned (if not used) to parents at the end of the school year.

They expire in 12 months and according to the site, administration is not quick and simple which is why they strongly suggest watching the videos on a regular basis, practicing with the trainer, etc. Drawing 12 units ( or whatever the Dr. calls out) into a syringe is about a 10 second process and another 5 to stick it and push the plunger. I assure you, there is nothing difficult about using a syringe.

Once again, if I needed it and could afford it, I would use the EpiPen, if it was a hardship on me I would not hesitate to use a syringe and a vial

Lucyhere wrote:

flightco wrote:...I think a refresher is needed on a routine basis but the same could be said for taking a shot. I think schools get EpiPens for next to nothing so that is not the issue, the patient and those around them would need to know the correct dosage and how to administer it with a vial and syringe and would need to review this routinely.

Epipens are pre-filled. No need to know the correct dosage. Administering is quick and simple.

Epipens are given by the parents to the school, and are returned (if not used) to parents at the end of the school year.

Here is an interesting quote from the EpiPen website, seems they suggest syringe and vial if any thing other than the prefilled amount is needed

Each EpiPen® or EpiPen Jr® contains a single dose of epinephrine for single-use injection. Since the doses of epinephrine delivered from EpiPen® or EpiPen Jr® are fixed, consider using other forms of injectable epinephrine if doses lower than 0.15 mg are deemed necessary.

This does not really look simple to me (yes, I know I forgot how to embed a picture)

http://imgur.com/a/5bsLJ