Doxepin to wean off ambien

Has anyone had any luck with using Doxepin to wean off Ambien? I'm on 10mg at night and it does nothing. I end up taking an Ambien 2 hours later anyway. I've only just been prescribed Doxepin 3 days ago. So maybe I haven't given it a fair shake. Also, I just started feeling the benefits of cpap therapy within the last two weeks. So maybe it's still too soon and I'm putting pressure on myself only being on cpap for a little over two months?

Thoughts? Those are my important questions.

The rest below is for entertainment purposes and for all you arm chair addictions counsellors. Now here's the "addict" speaking...

I'd like to get off the Ambien, but I can't afford anymore sleepless nights. 15 years has been long enough. The last two weeks, I'm finally seeing real results with the cpap and I don't EVER want to go back to feeling the way I did pre-cpap. I even had the energy to go swimming (like for exercise--not standing in the pool with a glass of Cabernet.) I like falling asleep in 20 mins versus 2 days later while sitting at my desk and waking up with drool all over my papers. (Yes, that used to happen A LOT pre-cpap.)

I can think of hundreds of worse things to be addicted to than Ambien. I have no side-effects, other than I can't seem to fall asleep without it. I've never had a dose increase in two years and the only time I took more than one a night was when I first started cpap which also coincided with a car accident. (For the record, the accident was not Ambien or sleep related. The other driver ran a red light.). I'm back down to one a night.

So seriously, what's really the harm in 10mg of Ambien, if it helps me ignore the elephant nose on my face and fall effortlessly to sleep? Other than bp meds, which my doctor says I may be able to lower the dose or possibly go off completely in the next couple of months if my bp keeps going down the way it has, Ambien is the only medication I'm on. (Occasionally an Advil Allergy & Sinus for bad sinus days as a last resort if the Netty Pot doesn't clear everything out.)

Finally, my 2 cents - BOTH CLINTON AND TRUMP NEED TO GO!!! But that's about as realistic as my doctor letting me stay on Ambien for the rest of my life. (Gosh darn doctors with medical ethics!!!!)

Imatryin wrote:Has anyone had any luck with using Doxepin to wean off Ambien? I'm on 10mg at night and it does nothing. I end up taking an Ambien 2 hours later anyway. I've only just been prescribed Doxepin 3 days ago. So maybe I haven't given it a fair shake. Also, I just started feeling the benefits of cpap therapy within the last two weeks. So maybe it's still too soon and I'm putting pressure on myself only being on cpap for a little over two months?

Thoughts? Those are my important questions.

The rest below is for entertainment purposes and for all you arm chair addictions counsellors. Now here's the "addict" speaking...

I'd like to get off the Ambien, but I can't afford anymore sleepless nights. 15 years has been long enough. The last two weeks, I'm finally seeing real results with the cpap and I don't EVER want to go back to feeling the way I did pre-cpap. I even had the energy to go swimming (like for exercise--not standing in the pool with a glass of Cabernet.) I like falling asleep in 20 mins versus 2 days later while sitting at my desk and waking up with drool all over my papers. (Yes, that used to happen A LOT pre-cpap.)

I can think of hundreds of worse things to be addicted to than Ambien. I have no side-effects, other than I can't seem to fall asleep without it. I've never had a dose increase in two years and the only time I took more than one a night was when I first started cpap which also coincided with a car accident. (For the record, the accident was not Ambien or sleep related. The other driver ran a red light.). I'm back down to one a night.

So seriously, what's really the harm in 10mg of Ambien, if it helps me ignore the elephant nose on my face and fall effortlessly to sleep? Other than bp meds, which my doctor says I may be able to lower the dose or possibly go off completely in the next couple of months if my bp keeps going down the way it has, Ambien is the only medication I'm on. (Occasionally an Advil Allergy & Sinus for bad sinus days as a last resort if the Netty Pot doesn't clear everything out.)

Finally, my 2 cents - BOTH CLINTON AND TRUMP NEED TO GO!!! But that's about as realistic as my doctor letting me stay on Ambien for the rest of my life. (Gosh darn doctors with medical ethics!!!!)

Hi Imatryin,

Many people on withdrawal boards have found that using a med to get off another one just adds additional problem. And Doxepin would need to be tapered off of if you use it more than 1 month.

Regarding ambien, if you are interested in going off of it which you sound conflicted about, here is a good thread in tapering it very slowly. Perhaps doing that will keep the rebound insomnia symptoms to a minimum.

http://survivingantidepressants.org/ind ... ?hl=ambien

But if you want to stay on it, I totally support that choice as long as you are fully informed about the benefits and risks. It sounds like your doctor isn't on board.

Best of luck.

49er

You may consider this suggestion useless, but here it is anyway:
Cognitive behavioral therapy for insomnia. (CBT-I)
Some folks swear it works, but you have to be MOTIVATED, because it is not easy.

What is the dosage of the Doxepin?

Technically, Ambien is not addictive (per my doctor and my experience), but your body adjusts to it so it becomes less effective overtime. I took Ambien 12.5 mg CR for several years and switched to amitriptyline from one night to the next (may be known by your doctor by its brand name: Elavil). This switch caused no withdrawal effects at all even though they are totally different drugs.

Amitriptyline is an old anti-depressant medication that is no longer (or rarely) used for depression because it has been replaced with newer drugs that are considered "less dirty" (translation = fewer side effects). However, amitriptyline is frequently prescribed by doctors for sleep in very low doses (10 - 25 mgs per night). (The dosage prescribed for depression was 100-150 mgs per day.) It is very effective for many people and the side effects are nearly zero at these very low dosages (I have never had any). It can also be stopped without any tapering if it does not work for you (which I have also done). Another benefit is that it is very cheap even if paying cash. This may not apply to you, but many people that have chronic nerve pain can get relief with the same low dosage (I have).

I recommend that you ask your doctor about this medication (any doctor can prescribe it). Since it is so cheap, and likely with no side effects, it is well worth a try.

sptrout wrote:Technically, Ambien is not addictive (per my doctor and my experience), but your body adjusts to it so it becomes less effective overtime. I took Ambien 12.5 mg CR for several years and switched to amitriptyline from one night to the next (may be known by your doctor by its brand name: Elavil). This switch caused no withdrawal effects at all even though they are totally different drugs.

Amitriptyline is an old anti-depressant medication that is no longer (or rarely) used for depression because it has been replaced with newer drugs that are considered "less dirty" (translation = fewer side effects). However, amitriptyline is frequently prescribed by doctors for sleep in very low doses (10 - 25 mgs per night). (The dosage prescribed for depression was 100-150 mgs per day.) It is very effective for many people and the side effects are nearly zero at these very low dosages (I have never had any). It can also be stopped without any tapering if it does not work for you (which I have also done). Another benefit is that it is very cheap even if paying cash. This may not apply to you, but many people that have chronic nerve pain can get relief with the same low dosage (I have).

I recommend that you ask your doctor about this medication (any doctor can prescribe it). Since it is so cheap, and likely with no side effects, it is well worth a try.

Sptrout,

Cold turkeying an antidepressant at 10mg is playing with fire particularly if it has been used for more than a month which is long enough for it to make chemical changes in the brain. You are lucky you didn't suffer any adverse affects but many people end up on the AD withdrawal board due to doctors wrongly telling them it was ok to cold turkey a med at 10-25mgs.

And while not everyone experiences side effects switching from one med to another, it is a definite possibility and one people need to be aware of.

49er

I've not a lot to add but good luck with your new plan and I hope you get off all drugs related to sleep.

49er wrote:

sptrout wrote:Technically, Ambien is not addictive (per my doctor and my experience), but your body adjusts to it so it becomes less effective overtime. I took Ambien 12.5 mg CR for several years and switched to amitriptyline from one night to the next (may be known by your doctor by its brand name: Elavil). This switch caused no withdrawal effects at all even though they are totally different drugs.

Amitriptyline is an old anti-depressant medication that is no longer (or rarely) used for depression because it has been replaced with newer drugs that are considered "less dirty" (translation = fewer side effects). However, amitriptyline is frequently prescribed by doctors for sleep in very low doses (10 - 25 mgs per night). (The dosage prescribed for depression was 100-150 mgs per day.) It is very effective for many people and the side effects are nearly zero at these very low dosages (I have never had any). It can also be stopped without any tapering if it does not work for you (which I have also done). Another benefit is that it is very cheap even if paying cash. This may not apply to you, but many people that have chronic nerve pain can get relief with the same low dosage (I have).

I recommend that you ask your doctor about this medication (any doctor can prescribe it). Since it is so cheap, and likely with no side effects, it is well worth a try.

Sptrout,

Cold turkeying an antidepressant at 10mg is playing with fire particularly if it has been used for more than a month which is long enough for it to make chemical changes in the brain. You are lucky you didn't suffer any adverse affects but many people end up on the AD withdrawal board due to doctors wrongly telling them it was ok to cold turkey a med at 10-25mgs. Do you have any personal experience with this drug? I have nearly 20 years of off and on again experience for both sleep and pain issues.

And while not everyone experiences side effects switching from one med to another, it is a definite possibility and one people need to be aware of.

49er

I will go with what the doctor said that has been prescribing this, and other antidepressant drugs, for over 40 years (and other doctors involved with my treatment for that matter). There is no reason to taper down from the levels that I mentioned. The 10mg pill is the size of a baby aspirin and is very difficult to split. (I have tried since the doctors involved in my treatment were trying to see if a small increase would help with my chronic pain.) Do yo have any personal experience with this drug? I have 20 years of experience, on and off and on again for the reasons mentioned.

sptrout wrote:

49er wrote:

sptrout wrote:Technically, Ambien is not addictive (per my doctor and my experience), but your body adjusts to it so it becomes less effective overtime. I took Ambien 12.5 mg CR for several years and switched to amitriptyline from one night to the next (may be known by your doctor by its brand name: Elavil). This switch caused no withdrawal effects at all even though they are totally different drugs.

Amitriptyline is an old anti-depressant medication that is no longer (or rarely) used for depression because it has been replaced with newer drugs that are considered "less dirty" (translation = fewer side effects). However, amitriptyline is frequently prescribed by doctors for sleep in very low doses (10 - 25 mgs per night). (The dosage prescribed for depression was 100-150 mgs per day.) It is very effective for many people and the side effects are nearly zero at these very low dosages (I have never had any). It can also be stopped without any tapering if it does not work for you (which I have also done). Another benefit is that it is very cheap even if paying cash. This may not apply to you, but many people that have chronic nerve pain can get relief with the same low dosage (I have).

I recommend that you ask your doctor about this medication (any doctor can prescribe it). Since it is so cheap, and likely with no side effects, it is well worth a try.

Sptrout,

Cold turkeying an antidepressant at 10mg is playing with fire particularly if it has been used for more than a month which is long enough for it to make chemical changes in the brain. You are lucky you didn't suffer any adverse affects but many people end up on the AD withdrawal board due to doctors wrongly telling them it was ok to cold turkey a med at 10-25mgs. Do you have any personal experience with this drug? I have nearly 20 years of off and on again experience for both sleep and pain issues.

And while not everyone experiences side effects switching from one med to another, it is a definite possibility and one people need to be aware of.

49er

I will go with what the doctor said that has been prescribing this, and other antidepressant drugs, for over 40 years (and other doctors involved with my treatment for that matter). There is no reason to taper down from the levels that I mentioned. The 10mg pill is the size of a baby aspirin and is very difficult to split. (I have tried since the doctors involved in my treatment were trying to see if a small increase would help with my chronic pain.) Do yo have any personal experience with this drug? I have 20 years of experience, on and off and on again for the reasons mentioned.

Unfortunately, many doctors do not recognize withdrawal symptoms of psych meds and will blame any WD issues on emerging mental health issues. I am not joking.

Yes, Doxepin was the last drug I tapered of my 4 med psych med cocktail and if I had cold turkeyed from 10mg, I would have been hurting big time. So I disagree vehemently that it doesn't need to be tapered.

I also wish I had a nickel for everyone who was told they could stop a so called low dose of a psych med without any problem only to suffer horrific withdrawal symptoms down the road. I am not saying everyone will suffer in that manner but the problem is you won't know until it is too late.

So why not be cautious with the taper initially? If you find you aren't suffering any problems, then try a slightly faster taper to see what happens. Still, it is better to be safe than sorry.

I used a digital measuring scale, empty capsules and then poured the appropriate amount from the full pill into the empty capsule. But here is an informative thread that would give you some ideas if you want to experiment with a small dose increase. Obviously, just reverse things.

http://survivingantidepressants.org/ind ... n-zonalon/

You could also can use a compound pharmacy to get the dose that you can't find at your local drug store. Insurance doesn't always cover this so check to make sure.

Finally, I wish to heck that http://www.paxilprogress.org hadn't been deleted after the owner, an RN, decided to quit operating it. It had years of cases of people who are told it was ok to cold turkey a "low dose" antidepressant only to be hurting big time down the road.

Many people tried reinstating the dose to taper but unfortunately, that didn't work for everyone unfortunately.

49er

49er wrote:

sptrout wrote:

49er wrote:

sptrout wrote:Technically, Ambien is not addictive (per my doctor and my experience), but your body adjusts to it so it becomes less effective overtime. I took Ambien 12.5 mg CR for several years and switched to amitriptyline from one night to the next (may be known by your doctor by its brand name: Elavil). This switch caused no withdrawal effects at all even though they are totally different drugs.

Amitriptyline is an old anti-depressant medication that is no longer (or rarely) used for depression because it has been replaced with newer drugs that are considered "less dirty" (translation = fewer side effects). However, amitriptyline is frequently prescribed by doctors for sleep in very low doses (10 - 25 mgs per night). (The dosage prescribed for depression was 100-150 mgs per day.) It is very effective for many people and the side effects are nearly zero at these very low dosages (I have never had any). It can also be stopped without any tapering if it does not work for you (which I have also done). Another benefit is that it is very cheap even if paying cash. This may not apply to you, but many people that have chronic nerve pain can get relief with the same low dosage (I have).

I recommend that you ask your doctor about this medication (any doctor can prescribe it). Since it is so cheap, and likely with no side effects, it is well worth a try.

Sptrout,

Cold turkeying an antidepressant at 10mg is playing with fire particularly if it has been used for more than a month which is long enough for it to make chemical changes in the brain. You are lucky you didn't suffer any adverse affects but many people end up on the AD withdrawal board due to doctors wrongly telling them it was ok to cold turkey a med at 10-25mgs. Do you have any personal experience with this drug? I have nearly 20 years of off and on again experience for both sleep and pain issues.

And while not everyone experiences side effects switching from one med to another, it is a definite possibility and one people need to be aware of.

49er

I will go with what the doctor said that has been prescribing this, and other antidepressant drugs, for over 40 years (and other doctors involved with my treatment for that matter). There is no reason to taper down from the levels that I mentioned. The 10mg pill is the size of a baby aspirin and is very difficult to split. (I have tried since the doctors involved in my treatment were trying to see if a small increase would help with my chronic pain.) Do yo have any personal experience with this drug? I have 20 years of experience, on and off and on again for the reasons mentioned.

Unfortunately, many doctors do not recognize withdrawal symptoms of psych meds and will blame any WD issues on emerging mental health issues. I am not joking.

Yes, Doxepin was the last drug I tapered of my 4 med psych med cocktail and if I had cold turkeyed from 10mg, I would have been hurting big time. So I disagree vehemently that it doesn't need to be tapered.

I also wish I had a nickel for everyone who was told they could stop a so called low dose of a psych med without any problem only to suffer horrific withdrawal symptoms down the road. I am not saying everyone will suffer in that manner but the problem is you won't know until it is too late.

So why not be cautious with the taper initially? If you find you aren't suffering any problems, then try a slightly faster taper to see what happens. Still, it is better to be safe than sorry.

I used a digital measuring scale, empty capsules and then poured the appropriate amount from the full pill into the empty capsule. But here is an informative thread that would give you some ideas if you want to experiment with a small dose increase. Obviously, just reverse things.

http://survivingantidepressants.org/ind ... n-zonalon/

You could also can use a compound pharmacy to get the dose that you can't find at your local drug store. Insurance doesn't always cover this so check to make sure.

Finally, I wish to heck that http://www.paxilprogress.org hadn't been deleted after the owner, an RN, decided to quit operating it. It had years of cases of people who are told it was ok to cold turkey a "low dose" antidepressant only to be hurting big time down the road.

Many people tried reinstating the dose to taper but unfortunately, that didn't work for everyone unfortunately.

49er

However, your example/experience does not apply to what I posted. I was not on any antidepressant medication before, or after, stopping the low dose of amitriptyline and as far as I know the OP is not either. If a person is on newer medications for depression, or high levels of older medications, then tapering is absolutely a requirement. For sleep only amitriptyline is dosed at 10 mg, which is 1/10 to 1/25 of the dosage that was used for depression. That extreme low dose is why multiple doctors (and personal experience) have said that tapering is not needed in this specific case. Now if I was taking 100-125 mg, then yes a slow taper would likely be required.

I have successfully split .5 mg alprazolam, (about baby aspirin size) ---FOUR WAYS.
Some splitters are better than others. Way better.

Alprazolam is easy to cut, but amitriptyline is not. It has a hard outer shell that one would think would make it a delayed release pill, but it is not (it is IR). No idea why it has such a hard shell, especially the 10mg pill, unless it cannot be exposed to air at all??????

sptrout wrote:

49er wrote:

sptrout wrote:

49er wrote:

sptrout wrote:Technically, Ambien is not addictive (per my doctor and my experience), but your body adjusts to it so it becomes less effective overtime. I took Ambien 12.5 mg CR for several years and switched to amitriptyline from one night to the next (may be known by your doctor by its brand name: Elavil). This switch caused no withdrawal effects at all even though they are totally different drugs.

Amitriptyline is an old anti-depressant medication that is no longer (or rarely) used for depression because it has been replaced with newer drugs that are considered "less dirty" (translation = fewer side effects). However, amitriptyline is frequently prescribed by doctors for sleep in very low doses (10 - 25 mgs per night). (The dosage prescribed for depression was 100-150 mgs per day.) It is very effective for many people and the side effects are nearly zero at these very low dosages (I have never had any). It can also be stopped without any tapering if it does not work for you (which I have also done). Another benefit is that it is very cheap even if paying cash. This may not apply to you, but many people that have chronic nerve pain can get relief with the same low dosage (I have).

I recommend that you ask your doctor about this medication (any doctor can prescribe it). Since it is so cheap, and likely with no side effects, it is well worth a try.

Sptrout,

Cold turkeying an antidepressant at 10mg is playing with fire particularly if it has been used for more than a month which is long enough for it to make chemical changes in the brain. You are lucky you didn't suffer any adverse affects but many people end up on the AD withdrawal board due to doctors wrongly telling them it was ok to cold turkey a med at 10-25mgs. Do you have any personal experience with this drug? I have nearly 20 years of off and on again experience for both sleep and pain issues.

And while not everyone experiences side effects switching from one med to another, it is a definite possibility and one people need to be aware of.

49er

I will go with what the doctor said that has been prescribing this, and other antidepressant drugs, for over 40 years (and other doctors involved with my treatment for that matter). There is no reason to taper down from the levels that I mentioned. The 10mg pill is the size of a baby aspirin and is very difficult to split. (I have tried since the doctors involved in my treatment were trying to see if a small increase would help with my chronic pain.) Do yo have any personal experience with this drug? I have 20 years of experience, on and off and on again for the reasons mentioned.

Unfortunately, many doctors do not recognize withdrawal symptoms of psych meds and will blame any WD issues on emerging mental health issues. I am not joking.

Yes, Doxepin was the last drug I tapered of my 4 med psych med cocktail and if I had cold turkeyed from 10mg, I would have been hurting big time. So I disagree vehemently that it doesn't need to be tapered.

I also wish I had a nickel for everyone who was told they could stop a so called low dose of a psych med without any problem only to suffer horrific withdrawal symptoms down the road. I am not saying everyone will suffer in that manner but the problem is you won't know until it is too late.

So why not be cautious with the taper initially? If you find you aren't suffering any problems, then try a slightly faster taper to see what happens. Still, it is better to be safe than sorry.

I used a digital measuring scale, empty capsules and then poured the appropriate amount from the full pill into the empty capsule. But here is an informative thread that would give you some ideas if you want to experiment with a small dose increase. Obviously, just reverse things.

http://survivingantidepressants.org/ind ... n-zonalon/

You could also can use a compound pharmacy to get the dose that you can't find at your local drug store. Insurance doesn't always cover this so check to make sure.

Finally, I wish to heck that http://www.paxilprogress.org hadn't been deleted after the owner, an RN, decided to quit operating it. It had years of cases of people who are told it was ok to cold turkey a "low dose" antidepressant only to be hurting big time down the road.

Many people tried reinstating the dose to taper but unfortunately, that didn't work for everyone unfortunately.

49er

However, your example/experience does not apply to what I posted. I was not on any antidepressant medication before, or after, stopping the low dose of amitriptyline and as far as I know the OP is not either. If a person is on newer medications for depression, or high levels of older medications, then tapering is absolutely a requirement. For sleep only amitriptyline is dosed at 10 mg, which is 1/10 to 1/25 of the dosage that was used for depression. That extreme low dose is why multiple doctors (and personal experience) have said that tapering is not needed in this specific case. Now if I was taking 100-125 mg, then yes a slow taper would likely be required.

Again, you are missing the point. Many people prescribed psych meds for non psych issues had horrible withdrawal symptoms when they cold turkeyed a med at a low dose. It has nothing to do with the original diagnosis.

"Again, you are missing the point. Many people prescribed psych meds for non psych issues had horrible withdrawal symptoms when they cold turkeyed a med at a low dose. It has nothing to do with the original diagnosis."

Well, I suppose anything is possible. Low dose amitriptyline is commonly prescribed by many doctors for sleep (I have had 4 doctors I believe). It has a very low side effect profile especially when compared to the newer sleep drugs that can cause all kinds of weird side effects (I never had any with Ambien though). Having been there, done that, I would recommend low dose amitriptyline over any other sleep medication; just ask your doctor.

sptrout wrote:"Again, you are missing the point. Many people prescribed psych meds for non psych issues had horrible withdrawal symptoms when they cold turkeyed a med at a low dose. It has nothing to do with the original diagnosis."

Well, I suppose anything is possible. Low dose amitriptyline is commonly prescribed by many doctors for sleep (I have had 4 doctors I believe). It has a very low side effect profile especially when compared to the newer sleep drugs that can cause all kinds of weird side effects (I never had any with Ambien though). Having been there, done that, I would recommend low dose amitriptyline over any other sleep medication; just ask your doctor.

sptrout, if one wants to go the med route, I agree that asking for low dose amitryptyline is a reasonable option. I think because there was concern about ambien being "addictive" (I am using that term very loosely) that I felt the need to point out that a low dose antidepressant may need to be tapered if used for more than 1 month.

Ambien was a totally worthless sleep med for me. But fortunately, it didn't cause any side effects.