Should Trump Jump Up?

ChicagoGranny wrote:

Nin6 wrote: A multimillionaire putting in not one penny for the military, Vets, Federal government and all it supports for 20 years?

You've fallen for it. You cannot know how much tax Trump paid over any 20-year period. Unless, you are one of his tax lawyers and have seen his returns.

The NYT reports,

Donald J. Trump declared a $916 million loss on his 1995 income tax returns, a tax deduction so substantial it could have allowed him to legally avoid paying any federal income taxes for up to 18 years

That $916 million tax loss carried forward could have easily been used up in one to three years given the size of Trump's business and the potential profitability. After that, Trump could have been paying hundreds of millions of dollars in taxes every year. We won't know unless he releases his returns.

¿me comprendes?

True, we don't know. But if he would release his tax returns, we would know. After working as a parole officer for 15 years, I learned that where there's a smoke screen, there's usually something being hidden. But we don't know for sure what's being hidden. Maybe nothing -- I'd give that about a 10% chance. Or maybe something worse than not paying any taxes. No one but Trump, his CPAs, his legal team and the IRS knows for sure.

Nin6 wrote: Maybe nothing -- I'd give that about a 10% chance.

And, you just pulled that 10% out of your behind?

I agree with Flightco.

Nin6 wrote:Conservatives in general (and I know I'm generalizing) feel that too many people are lazy and living off the system and deride them because they should get a job and support themselves instead of the letting the taxpayers take care of them. In my mind there's no difference from someone taking out of the system if it's legally allowed than someone not putting into the system because it's legally allowed.

Using the system both ways is OK if it's necessary. But if it's because of manipulating the system it isn't. And if one is a multi billionaire who's touting himself as being a great businessman, and isn't paying taxes, he's either manipulating the system or is a lousy businessman (conman?) who's lying about his abilities, or probably both. Either way, just because one CAN manipulate the system doesn't mean one SHOULD. Says a lot about character.

And I'm tired of hearing the Trump supporters making up excuses to defend him. It may be legally legit, but it's moral bankruptcy. A multimillionaire putting in not one penny for the military, Vets, Federal government and all it supports for 20 years? All the while criticizing it? Disgusting!

I know I"m sounding serious about this, but I just got done listening to some of his hench men trying to give it a good spin and it made me mad. By tomorrow I'll probably be able to laugh about it.

I would take your message more seriously had you even made a comment about the congress which makes these rules. The first two years of the Obama Presidency, they had a political trifecta, the holy grail of politics; they owned the House, the Senate and the Presidency yet they did nothing to change this. For anyone who has been in Congress to criticize Trump for following the rules they set up is beyond hypocritical. (note, I was not calling you a hypocrite, I was talking about Hillary and anyone else, D or R who has been in congress and done nothing). So, yes I think it is wrong that he paid no taxes but I only blame the system he works with, I don't expect anybody, not you, not me and not Trump to pay more in taxes than they are obligated.

Second part of your comments; just as I think the tax system needs to be fixed, I believe the welfare systems needs to have more checks and balances. The example I am giving is only one example, and I am not saying it is reprehensive of the overall welfare system, but this did happen to me and I am still pissed about it. Can't remember for sure when this happened but I was still married to my first wife so it was probably 15 years ago. We had stopped to buy groceries and as always were price sensitive shoppers, buying store brands and things on sale. I noticed the couple in front of us had top of the line everything, no store brands in their cart. I just about pooed myself when they paid with food stamps, if that wasn't bad enough, when we went outside they were putting the groceries into a very new convertible luxury sedan and I loaded mine into my middle of the road 4 year old, non convertible, sedan. Again, only one example and do not mean to imply in any way that all welfare recipients live this life but if it happened once it has happened enough times that there should be a crackdown. As a conservative, I do believe that if jobs are available and they are able bodied they should get a job and support themselves; however, in this economy it is hard to find a job for a lot of people and if they do it will often not pay enough to support themselves and family.

ChicagoGranny wrote:

Nin6 wrote: Maybe nothing -- I'd give that about a 10% chance.

And, you just pulled that 10% out of your behind?

LOL Maybe, but mostly out of 15 years in Corrections dealing with dumb con men, and 10 years in Nursing Home Regulation dealing with some great people, but also with some major business con men.

flight wrote: I would take your message more seriously had you even made a comment about the congress which makes these rules. The first two years of the Obama Presidency, they had a political trifecta, the holy grail of politics; they owned the House, the Senate and the Presidency yet they did nothing to change this. For anyone who has been in Congress to criticize Trump for following the rules they set up is beyond hypocritical. (note, I was not calling you a hypocrite, I was talking about Hillary and anyone else, D or R who has been in congress and done nothing). So, yes I think it is wrong that he paid no taxes but I only blame the system he works with, I don't expect anybody, not you, not me and not Trump to pay more in taxes than they are obligated.

Second part of your comments; just as I think the tax system needs to be fixed, I believe the welfare systems needs to have more checks and balances. The example I am giving is only one example, and I am not saying it is reprehensive of the overall welfare system, but this did happen to me and I am still pissed about it. Can't remember for sure when this happened but I was still married to my first wife so it was probably 15 years ago. We had stopped to buy groceries and as always were price sensitive shoppers, buying store brands and things on sale. I noticed the couple in front of us had top of the line everything, no store brands in their cart. I just about pooed myself when they paid with food stamps, if that wasn't bad enough, when we went outside they were putting the groceries into a very new convertible luxury sedan and I loaded mine into my middle of the road 4 year old, non convertible, sedan. Again, only one example and do not mean to imply in any way that all welfare recipients live this life but if it happened once it has happened enough times that there should be a crackdown. As a conservative, I do believe that if jobs are available and they are able bodied they should get a job and support themselves; however, in this economy it is hard to find a job for a lot of people and if they do it will often not pay enough to support themselves and family.

I actually agree with a lot of what you said. And there's nothing legally wrong with Trump taking advantage of the laws of the land. But the welfare people were just doing the same thing - taking advantage of the laws of the land. So why should you be mad at them but not at Trump? Both are using the system for their own gain without worrying about how it affects others.

Also there is something morally wrong with Trump not owning up to whatever he's up to by not releasing his tax records when everyone else has. And with expecting people to trust him just because he says he's trustworthy.

Nin6 wrote:Conservatives in general (and I know I'm generalizing) feel that too many people are lazy and living off the system and deride them because they should get a job and support themselves instead of the letting the taxpayers take care of them. In my mind there's no difference from someone taking out of the system if it's legally allowed than someone not putting into the system because it's legally allowed.

Using the system both ways is OK if it's necessary. But if it's because of manipulating the system it isn't. And if one is a multi billionaire who's touting himself as being a great businessman, and isn't paying taxes, he's either manipulating the system or is a lousy businessman (conman?) who's lying about his abilities, or probably both. Either way, just because one CAN manipulate the system doesn't mean one SHOULD. Says a lot about character.

And I'm tired of hearing the Trump supporters making up excuses to defend him. It may be legally legit, but it's moral bankruptcy. A multimillionaire putting in not one penny for the military, Vets, Federal government and all it supports for 20 years? All the while criticizing it? Disgusting!

I know I"m sounding serious about this, but I just got done listening to some of his hench men trying to give it a good spin and it made me mad. By tomorrow I'll probably be able to laugh about it.

flight wrote:

Love it!

Nin6 wrote:

flight wrote:dI actually agree with a lot of what you said. And there's nothing legally wrong with Trump taking advantage of the laws of the land. But the welfare people were just doing the same thing - taking advantage of the laws of the land. So why should you be mad at them but not at Trump? Both are using the system for their own gain without worrying about how it affects others.

Also there is something morally wrong with Trump not owning up to whatever he's up to by not releasing his tax records when everyone else has. And with expecting people to trust him just because he says he's trustworthy.

I cannot disagree with you that they have as much right to game the system as Trump; the system needs to be fixed and so far there is no fix in sight.

flightco wrote: I cannot disagree with you that they have as much right to game the system as Trump; the system needs to be fixed and so far there is no fix in sight.

Actually there has been some changes. When I started working in the 70's, AFDC was in effect where I live and women were paid to have children - the more children, the more $. It went a long way to destroying poor families as the woman controlled the $ and men couldn't stay in the house legally. They did, but had to live up to the woman's wants as she had the $. Also, the kids didn't see anyone going to work and didn't learn a work ethic. Now AFDC is gone and women only get $ and child care if they work or are in school. I think they still get food stamps though. There's still a lot of abuse, but it's a step in the right direction. Unfortunately it's pushed people into trying to get their kids diagnosed with Attention Deficit Disorder or something like it so they can get Social Security for Children with Disabilities which is bad for the child. One step forward, one step back. Most programs have good intentions but then there are unwanted consequences.

So many petulant people here posting insults and stupid pictures, what are they hoping to achieve? Are they under the delusion that they are going to influence someones vote? Or has their life come down to the level of just trying to achieve a virtual one-upmanship?

Sorry, I just don't understand the purpose of this thread. Which is off topic.

ChicagoGranny wrote:That $916 million tax loss carried forward could have easily been used up in one to three years given the size of Trump's business and the potential profitability. After that, Trump could have been paying hundreds of millions of dollars in taxes every year. We won't know unless he releases his returns.

Uh yeah... ya think? And I suppose you also think that if he paid, "hundreds of millions" in taxes that he would hesitate for a second to release his tax returns?

Uncle_Bob wrote:... what are they hoping to achieve? Are they under the delusion that they are going to influence someones vote?

Not a chance!

I'd say yes... most of us know this thread is off topic.

Most of us figured that out before we posted. If we hadn't we shouldn't be allowed to vote. Jim

Goofproof wrote:Most of us figured that out before we posted. If we hadn't we shouldn't be allowed to vote. Jim

Rest assured Jim although as a US citizen I can vote and pay taxes but I am not allowed to become president