Brand new to cpap (overloaded with information) Start where?

verbatim wrote:

palerider wrote: he's over there, posting the same comments and complaints

While I posted the same questions and similar revelations to the other forum under the same user login name, I wouldn't characterize my initial assessment of the ResMed as "complaints".
I don't know you so I don't know if you're a pessimist or a realist, but I'm a realist, which, in this situation, simply means that the ResMed isn't absolutely perfect yet, but my questions are centered around getting it there.

I'm simply trying to post information and ask questions to clarify what confuses me.

"things I like, things I don't like, things that confuse me" you said... which sounds a lot like comments and complaints to me

also: https://sleep.tnet.com/resources/sleepyhead/shorganize

Why did Resmed decide to use a 24 volt system? A pessimist would say it's to ensure that you buy your power supplies and battery backups and converters from them. All of the other brands of cpap seem to work just fine on 12 volts.

Did you realize that the power cable also has a signal line in it in addition to power? So if you were to hook up, say, two 12 volt batteries to a connector and plugged it into the cpap, it still wouldn't work? A Respironics DC converter costs $25 on cpap.com. The Resmed DC convertor costs $85.

verbatim wrote:When I first looked up which is the best single forum for learning about sleep apnea, two forums came up most frequently, so I posted my questions and revelations to both.
For efficiency, I usually find the best single forum, and just stick with one.

there's three forums I know of for users of cpap, this one, freecpapadvice.com and apneaboard.

generally, I think they're in that decreasing order of usefulness.

the best advice is here, even though there are rough edges on the forum, but the fact that people are free to disagree and call out bad information makes the info here more reliable.

freecpapadvice.com is a good source, and given credence by it's owner, who works in the field, but doesn't toe the "users should be stupid sheep that follow order" party line.

apneaboard serves a good purpose in that they distribute manuals, but their forums are like the training wheels, it's more important over there to be 'polite' and watch out for peoples feelings than it is to give good, helpful information. so there's a lot of crap posted, and, if you're lucky, someone may say 'well, ah, actually I think that it might be something more like"...

yaconsult wrote: A Respironics DC converter costs $25 on cpap.com. The Resmed DC convertor costs $85.

respironics is charging you 25$ for a 50 cent cigarette lighter plug, 2 cents of wire and a 50 cent barrel plug.

resmeds boost converter supplies a nice steady even voltage to the machine, when fed from 12-24volts... that takes more than a buck's worth of parts.

The Encore software is strictly for Respironics machines...that's why it won't work with a ResMed machine.
Likewise ResScan only works with ResMed machines.
SleepyHead works with Resmed, Respironics, F & P and Devilbiss.

Since I own both brands of machines I also keep Encore (I have both Pro and Basic) and ResScan on my computer but I don't download to each very often. And yes...Encore is also slow as a 3 legged turtle...all the versions and it's always been that way and I have a rather "fast" computer. It is what it is and we live with it. Remember these software products were written for DMEs and doctors first...not us.

I actually find that there are a couple of little things in each product that I find does something I want a little better than SleepyHead...but it's something that I don't necessarily want to see all that often so I usually use SleepyHead for the bulk of any evaluation I might do. Pros and cons to everything and something that I might think is a pro to me might be a con to someone else.

There's nothing stopping you from using/trying/or trashing ResScan except your own personal preferences.
SleepyHead will co exist just fine on your computer with the other software products.
I do suggest that people try ResScan if they want to explore and like to try stuff like that. Some people do and some don't.

Can't say the same for the F & P brand software...it's horrible PITA and makes Encore and ResScan look like a walk in the park.

yaconsult wrote:Why did Resmed decide to use a 24 volt system? A pessimist would say it's to ensure that you buy your power supplies and battery backups and converters from them. All of the other brands of cpap seem to work just fine on 12 volts.

Fundamentally, the CPAP, AFAICT, is just a motor and some electronics, so, any voltage will work.
12VDC is standard pretty much all over the earth, and the gel cells are ubiquitous, as are car batteries in a pinch.

yaconsult wrote: Did you realize that the power cable also has a signal line in it in addition to power? So if you were to hook up, say, two 12 volt batteries to a connector and plugged it into the cpap, it still wouldn't work?

Thank you for that information.
What on earth do they need a "signal" line for in a power supply?
What does it do?

Pugsy wrote:The Encore software is strictly for Respironics machines...that's why it won't work with a ResMed machine.
Likewise ResScan only works with ResMed machines.
SleepyHead works with Resmed, Respironics, F & P and Devilbiss.

Thanks for all the helpful advice, which I greatly appreciate.
I am very experienced, like most of you, with testing software (windows, mac, linux, android, ios, etc.), where the greatest time is spent just figuring out which is the one to use.
I have all three now:
1. Encore (only worked for the loaner)
2. Sleepyhead
3. ResScan

So, I'll test out the Rescan and use the Sleepyhead until or unless the Resscan does better at some things
Thanks for the kind advice.

palerider wrote: there's three forums I know of for users of cpap, this one, freecpapadvice.com and apneaboard.

Thanks for that advice.
I learned how to adjust the settings from the guy (Steve?) at freecpapadvice.com who has youtube videos where he wears a mustache as he jokingly says his "friend" will show us how to adjust the device.
I like that he's not into the big-brother nanny stuff that the manufacturers seem to be.
I didn't know he also had a forum.

palerider wrote: generally, I think they're in that decreasing order of usefulness.

So far I found DIFFERENT information in the two forums, so they're a wash at the moment.
Each has it's personalities which I am just learning about.

verbatim wrote:

yaconsult wrote:Why did Resmed decide to use a 24 volt system? A pessimist would say it's to ensure that you buy your power supplies and battery backups and converters from them. All of the other brands of cpap seem to work just fine on 12 volts.

Fundamentally, the CPAP, AFAICT, is just a motor and some electronics, so, any voltage will work.

a three phase, variable frequency motor, in the case of resmed.. dunno 'bout others.

verbatim wrote:What on earth do they need a "signal" line for in a power supply?
What does it do?

hints in: US20140366876A1

verbatim wrote:

yaconsult wrote:Why did Resmed decide to use a 24 volt system? A pessimist would say it's to ensure that you buy your power supplies and battery backups and converters from them. All of the other brands of cpap seem to work just fine on 12 volts.

Fundamentally, the CPAP, AFAICT, is just a motor and some electronics, so, any voltage will work.
12VDC is standard pretty much all over the earth, and the gel cells are ubiquitous, as are car batteries in a pinch.

yaconsult wrote: Did you realize that the power cable also has a signal line in it in addition to power? So if you were to hook up, say, two 12 volt batteries to a connector and plugged it into the cpap, it still wouldn't work?

Thank you for that information.
What on earth do they need a "signal" line for in a power supply?
What does it do?

It's to make sure you use an official Respironics adapter to power the cpap even if you are using batteries. People have figured out the signal required, however - here's one post about it::

I've found that the A10 will run from a +24 volt power supply (non-ResMed) when the center pin is connected to +3.3 volts thru a 2.7k ohm resistor. I use a +3.3 volt three-terminal voltage regulator fed from the +24 volt power supply. The resistor functions as a pull-up resistor to +3.3 volts and tells the cpap the power rating of the supply. I've tested this on two units.

http://www.apneaboard.com/forums/Thread ... #pid152243

palerider wrote:

verbatim wrote: a three phase, variable frequency motor, in the case of resmed.. dunno 'bout others.

Thanks for that information that it is a 3-phase motor, which surprised me, because the input is 24VDC, so, they have to convert the DC to AC in order to have a 3-phase motor (which is additional circuitry).

Plus, the fact it's a 3-phase motor is also surprising (to me) because I've only seen 3-phase motors in high power high-efficiency situations, where a cpap fan needs neither. The 3-phase motor is generally cheaper, smaller and lighter though, so that would be a factor (bearing in mind the electronics is slightly larger because DC has to be converted to 3 phase AC).

3-phase motors are self starting, which might be useful for cpap (dunno) and they have a longer life, and give less vibration, and they're easier to reverse (dunno if cpaps ever reverse though).

I suspect the main reason for using a 3-phase motor is that they are lighter and they have longer lives and they are quieter than single-phase motors. Of course, the lighter and longer life is offset by increased electronics, offset by the lack of a need for a (frail) electrolytic starter capacitor.

I guess the most telling comparison would be to ask what type of motor is installed in the other CPAP machines.

yaconsult wrote: It's to make sure you use an official Respironics adapter to power the cpap even if you are using batteries. People have figured out the signal required, however - here's one post about it::

Thank you for that reference to http://www.apneaboard.com/forums/Thread ... #pid152243
Many there echo your sentiment that they made the power supply for profit reasons alone.
Nonetheless, we're stuck with the non-standard voltage and signal line, so, no amount of layperson jury rigging is going to solve that.

Apparently the signal line voltage can vary from 2.4 volts to 3.5 volts, while the resistor could range between 2.3K to 3.55K Ohms.

A 3.3 volt voltage regulator is about fifty cents to a buck fifty on the open market (e.g., LD1117V33), as is a 2.7K Ohm resistor, so the parts are only a couple of bucks over the cost of the 24VDC battery; but I need to look up the required amperage (e.g., the LD1117V33 can only source 800mA) and the wattage of the resistor (typical wattage is 1/4 Watt).

I will take that electronics question over to the other forum, and report back here what I find out for the power requirements.

palerider wrote:hints in: US20140366876A1

Thank you for that pointer to the US Patent US20140366876A1
http://www.google.com/patents/US20140366876
Power management in respiratory treatment apparatus

I just skimmed it, but, at least upon first and second skim, I don't see anything in that patent description which relates to the INPUT power, as what they're talking about mostly is "interleaving" power requirements in a "triage" manner, to always ensure power priority to the air-flow generator (aka, the fan) over the ancillary accessories (i.e., the heating and humidifier elements).

Every time I read a patent (except for the the patent for the 1913 zipper and the frisbee "flying disc"), I'm always appalled at what the patent office will grant. All they're doing is prioritizing power for the fan over the other less time-dependent elements, such as a heater, which only needs the integral of the power to function correctly. But that's a rant for a different topic.

verbatim wrote:I suspect the main reason for using a 3-phase motor is that they are lighter and they have longer lives and they are quieter than single-phase motors. Of course, the lighter and longer life is offset by increased electronics, offset by the lack of a need for a (frail) electrolytic starter capacitor.

well, no, the reason that they use 3phase is because of *precise speed control* by varying the frequency of the drive, you can get *exact* speed control out of a motor. and other than a microprocessor and three hefty power chips, you don't need a lot of "increased electronics".

sitting right next to the motor connection in the s9:

verbatim wrote:

palerider wrote:hints in: US20140366876A1

Thank you for that pointer to the US Patent US20140366876A1
http://www.google.com/patents/US20140366876
Power management in respiratory treatment apparatus

I just skimmed it, but, at least upon first and second skim, I don't see anything in that patent description which relates to the INPUT power,

then you missed the whole section on resistor values on a sense line from the power supply to tell the machine what type of power supply is connected to it, eh?