OT: sort of - do you trust your doctor?

bwexler · Post by **bwexler** » Wed May 04, 2016 9:57 pm

I trust most doctors as far as I can throw them.
I moved recently and felt bad about leaving the old doc I had been training for 3 years. When I started with him he didn't know what CPAP was. He studied and learned to make some sense of sleepyhead. He wasn't much on vitamins. My wife and I are. He learned to accept our ideas on nutrition and avoiding prescription medications when possible.
The new doc is a clock watcher, who isn't anxious to learn anything new. His gatekeeper is strict about following the rules even when they defy logic.

I have been hearing similar statistics for years. I agree no one maintains accurate records on the topic. But I have enough reference points I trust and personal observation to believe the general premise. Does it matter if it's 100,000 or 300,000, as long as we are not included in this statistic? I believe it needs to be brought to public scrutiny and if a checklist can save a life, that is a good start.

The idea that doctors should ever work 24 hour rotation is ludicrous.

Captain_Midnight · Post by **Captain_Midnight** » Wed May 04, 2016 10:04 pm

Janknitz wrote:I just have to add that with the exception of CPAPTalk and some low carb groups, I can't stand most online support groups because it's full of people whining about how sick they are and how their doctors cannot find the right combination of medications to "fix" them. They follow their doctor's directions which may not work, and never think that perhaps they might be able to do something in their own best interest.

...
Medical science IS beginning to recognize things like saturated fats are not going to "clog your arteries", high carb is not necessarily good for diabetics, statins are not effective at preventing heart disease. But it can take another 10 or 20 years until this info filters down to the physicians on the front lines. I'm not waiting around for the people who went to medical school to get it. I am TAKING BACK MY HEALTH now!!!

And so far, with enormous success!

Nice response, JK. So much good info available, and we can (responsibly) take charge of our own health if we invest some time in due diligence.

.

49er · Post by **49er** » Thu May 05, 2016 3:00 am

Janknitz wrote:
The above was said by a number of people here in similar ways... but as someone who worked for doctors for over 30 yrs, I think it's important to keep in mind that your doctor went to school for a long time and then interned and practiced for even longer. You might reference Google, etc. for answers, but what you need to keep in mind is that your doctor, when making a recommendation or judgment about something, is also calling on a whole lot more knowledge both about whatever is being discussed - including your particular history including lots of lab work, etc. - than a few internet hits that you, not scientists, interpret in your own ways. It's great to be able to learn by doing 'research' on the net, but remember, it ain't med school.
This is MY body and I am in charge. In a trauma where I need immediate and specialized help, the doctor is king. If I have a heart attack or a stroke and need immediate and specialized help, then the doctor's expertise trumps. But no doctor knows my body as well as I do and no doctor cares as much about my body as I do. In non-urgent situations I expect my doctor to discuss my history with me (I know way more about my complex medical history than ANY doctor has time for), my lab work (I have it for review online). I have a science degree in a health care profession. I took the same anatomy, physiology, chemistry and biology as the pre-meds. I am fully licensed in a health care field and worked in hospitals for decades. I can read and understand any peer-reviewed study my doctor can and I have a lot more time to read the ones that pertain to me and my particular situation than my doctor does.

I have a genetic disorder that my doctor has probably only seen one or two cases of in her entire career, and one of them is me. I know way more about it than she does, particularly how this syndrome manifests in me. Part of the genetic syndrome I have is a congenital heart condition. When a cardiologist prescribed statins for me because "we just don't know what the risks are for people with congenital heart lesions" (in other words there was NO data that they would be helpful for someone in my situation, but since the standard of care was statins he was going to prescribe them) I was able to point out to him a peer-reviewed study showing the individuals with my particular heart lesion got WORSE on statins--the study had to be stopped because of adverse outcomes. But under your theory I should have trusted his "superior knowledge" and taken statins because he went to medical school and I did not??? Or perhaps I should not have paid attention to the study because I found it on the internet (PubMed)?

My primary care doctor and I have an agreement that if my self advocacy is getting "out there" she will tell me. She has never had to, so far. I'm not saying I don't listen to her advice, but I make an educated judgment of my own.

I have my second child because I read, study and advocate for myself. I read up on (what were then) new treatments for PCOS, showed a peer reviewed medical journal article to my primary care physician and asked for an appropriate referral. He had never heard (this was 16 years ago) that PCOS was actually a metabolic disorder and that a diabetes drug (metformin) could help. When I brought this to him, he said "Well, I never heard of this . This is really cutting edge, you know?". By following that cutting edge I was pregnant without fertility drugs in 6 months after a lifetime of infertility. If I sat around waiting for my doctor who would not be exposed to mainstream articles about this approach to treating PCOS for another decade, I'd have only the one child who was conceived by heartbreaking and expensive years of fertility treatments we could not go through again.

I did the opposite of a doctor's advice (he prescribed an 800 cal/day low fat starvation diet) to successfully lose and keep off 75 lbs. The medications a doctor prescribed for chronic pain caused GERD, the treatment for GERD contributed to worsening of my asthma and gut issues. I got myself off all of those medications, I'm pain free and healthier now than ever.

I could go on with many more examples. I consider myself a careful health care consumer, not a passive "patient". I seek doctors who are up to the challenge of working with an informed patient and who enjoy that. No, I didn't go to medical school, but that doesn't mean I'm unqualified to make well-educated decisions about my own health.

To add to this excellent post, I wanted to say one doesn't need to have a science degree to critically evaluate a doctor's advice. For example, after my A1C went to 5.7 which put me in the pre diabetic club after having been at 5.6 previously and 5.5 prior to that, I knew that when my former PCP said that was totally acceptable, she was full of -----, particularly since when I ate high carb foods, including oatmeal, which is supposedly a diabetic friendly food, that I would spike to near diabetic levels. And the fact it was going in the wrong direction was not good. It was the "evil" internet that made me realize I needed to take this seriously.

Captain Midnight, my cardiologist is one of my favorite doctors. I am sure we wouldn't agree on everything but she is an excellent doctor who listens to her patients. If god forbid, I had an issue that needed her immediate attention, there is no one else I would rather have looking after me.

49er

Holden4th · Post by **Holden4th** » Thu May 05, 2016 3:29 am

I changed GPs a few years ago and went with one that was close to work. He is also a parent of two students at my school.

His perception and ability to relate to me as a patient saved my life. I would not be sitting here now if it wasn't for him. He quietly 'conned me' into going to take a myocardial perfusion that had me in hospital 36 hours later. He listened to the bullshit I gave him about my supposed gastro esphogal reflux disease (self diagnosed) and realised that I had a major heart issue. He mentioned nothing of this to me, just called the Radiology centre, handed the phone to me and got me to make my own appointment. He knew me well enough to know that if I personally commit, I will follow through and keep the appointment.

A triple bypass later and I'm still above ground on the planet

Thank you Chris, I trust you implicitly!

Cannuck 1 · Post by **Cannuck 1** » Thu May 05, 2016 1:00 pm

A certain amount of trust has to be given but like other posts get a second opinion if possible because that second opinion saved my life.
Doctors are overwhelmed is my opinion in Alberta Canada, they cram as many folks through the system and work long hours.(they are the higher intelligence group of the education system- for what its worth.)
I meet a young girl from a different city in the south of the province who was attending the same school in Edmonton as I and she told me that she was not feeling well and needed a doctor but all doctors were not taking no new patients because of work loads- Emergency was her only other choice.(Emergency doctors are good ones anyway.)
Some doctors are trained different in other countries, they have wars and so surgeons in those areas are usually good.
I don't like to knock doctors to much because they usually help my health and have seen many others do well from them.
The future the way I see it will help many who believe in technology, I think someday you will walk into a room and it will bombard you with sound waves- xrays- take your blood and urine and tell you if any weakness is evident do millions of calculations to pin point the problems.(doctors will fight these advances but the system will need them to keep costs down.)Doctors will monitor your health but diagnoses is in computer's I think as we go through generations of health computers systems.(we are close to this new era because medical system uses these devices more and more.)

BlackSpinner · Post by **BlackSpinner** » Thu May 05, 2016 2:23 pm

I meet a young girl from a different city in the south of the province who was attending the same school in Edmonton as I and she told me that she was not feeling well and needed a doctor but all doctors were not taking no new patients because of work loads- Emergency was her only other choice.(Emergency doctors are good ones anyway.)

There are a few walk-in / urgent care clinics in Edmonton (Hys centre is one of them) That I have used. Their doctors were amazing - yes they were foreign but very good - especially on a Saturday on a long weekend (UTI's don't wait )

Julie · Post by **Julie** » Thu May 05, 2016 2:32 pm

Why even bring up that they were 'foreign'? Because they had an accent? Like your French Canadian one?

BlackSpinner · Post by **BlackSpinner** » Thu May 05, 2016 3:25 pm

Julie wrote:Why even bring up that they were 'foreign'? Because they had an accent? Like your French Canadian one?

Because the previous poster did.

As far as MY french Canadian doctor was concerned, we spoke in French, especially after my cpap therapy kicked in.

My current doctor also has an accent because she speaks English French and Arabic. As opposed to my Montreal GP who spoke French English Cantonese and Mandarin. I speak English French Dutch and a dash of German but then I am not good with languages.

Lucyhere · Post by **Lucyhere** » Thu May 05, 2016 6:18 pm

jnk... wrote:
Lucyhere wrote: . . .said all there is to say. . . .
Problem is, I generally say much MORE than there actually is to say!
Not sure why that one fired me up so much today. I almost spilled my fourth cup of coffee while typing all that.

Yeah, sometimes you do go on for a bit. Buttttttt, I seem to always agree with the "much more" you have to say.

DreamStalker · Post by **DreamStalker** » Fri May 06, 2016 1:11 pm

I fired 5 cardiologists in 5 years -- all told me that the cause of my arrhythmia was unknown and uncurable. That I would have to learn to live with my A-Fib and manage my risk for stroke with their omnipotent Rx drugs. They called it the "standard of care" for my condition. As my condition worsened and I continued my research I found out that the drugs they Rx'd me did nothing for my arrhythmia and were actually killing me slowly not to mention putting me at high risk for vascular hemorrhage and cardiac arrest.

I was already aware of cardiac ablation procedures through my own research into my condition when I saw the 6th cardiologist and I asked him what he thought. He said yes, he could help fix my arrhythmia and referred me to a specialist who also said he could fix my condition. I have to admit it was not a match made in heaven because there were complications -- but I was informed of the complication risks prior to agreeing to the procedure. I just did not expect that all of the possible complications would all actually apply to me. So far, my arrhythmias seem to be cured.

So the bottom line is that if you place all of your trust in the healthcare system and you really feel lucky with a successful outcome, you should go to Vegas first. If you are vigilant and research your own condition prior to seeking professional medical service, you still may need some level of luck because doctors are NOT gods ... they are human and they do and will make mistakes even if you're lucky ... and far worse they can simply be incompetent idiots that managed somehow to get through med school and get certified to push drugs rather than practice medical science.

My current conditions include thyroid nodules and I have fired two endocrinologists so far for suggesting that I should remove my thyroid despite the fact that it is working perfectly fine even with the nodules (I suspect those endo's wanted to addict me to synthroid and endless office visits for the rest of my life). I'm still working on the research which has led me to learn about the biochemical effects of ketosis. And of course I still have OSA ... and I plan to do some autonomic nervous system training and self-experiments with that as well. I will post in the future after I try a few things first.

SewTired · Post by **SewTired** » Fri May 06, 2016 2:04 pm

Going just by the data for my state, that article is pretty much way off kilter and using quite old data. In 2013, there were 14 deaths and 83 serious injuries associated with medical errors in my state. So, even if you assume it's tip of the iceburg and multiply that by 10, then by the number of states, you don't even come near those figures in the article. One of the reasons why the medical errors don't go down is because the new procedures sometimes turn out to cause a problem that was not anticipated.

As a patient, the majority of errors that you can be on the watch for occur during shift changes. Pay attention to what medications you are being given. Familiarize yourself with your regular prescriptions and what meds shouldn't be taken with them so that if a mistake is made, you will catch it. Sometimes the info the doc is GIVEN is in error. Example, I was going to be discharged with an antibiotic and I asked the doctor, "but what do I do about the antibiotic I'm already taking? Do I stop taking it or use it along with this?" The intake PA never wrote down that I was already on antibiotics. They kept me and switched me to IV antibiotics.

OT: sort of - do you trust your doctor?

Re: OT: sort of - do you trust your doctor?

Re: OT: sort of - do you trust your doctor?

Re: OT: sort of - do you trust your doctor?

Re: OT: sort of - do you trust your doctor?

Re: OT: sort of - do you trust your doctor?

Re: OT: sort of - do you trust your doctor?

Re: OT: sort of - do you trust your doctor?

Re: OT: sort of - do you trust your doctor?

Re: OT: sort of - do you trust your doctor?

Re: OT: sort of - do you trust your doctor?

Re: OT: sort of - do you trust your doctor?

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