Overweight and loving it....

Kind of sounds like lots of people on the forum are unwilling to even think that being overweight plays any part in having OSA. I am overweight and know that is a lot of the problem. I need to take responsibility for what I am putting in my mouth and how much physical exercise I get so that I can be healthy again and part of that starts with not denying that my weight is part of the problem. Granted, I know there are skinny people who have OSA, but everyone knows deep down inside that being overweight is not healthy physically or mentally.

hh,

I think you misunderstand, I haven't read comments by anyone stating that being overweight does not play a part in having OSA. What most everybody states is that losing weight will not likely eliminate the OSA. It can happen, but not likely. Even still there are benefits to losing weight, it may decrease your pressure requirements (always a good thing.)

I guess the attitude I see is that a lot of these people don't think it is going to change having OSA so why bother losing weight. They all think that the world is against fat people. I am not against fat people because I have become one. I will now take responsibility for it and do something to increase the value of my self worth and health.

Uh, the U.S. IS against fat people. It's the only condition where it is still allowable to discriminate against. I'm not saying being overweight is okay, just the facts & that most people believe that those with sleep apnea are have it because they are overweight. It's one thing to be accountable for our bodies & how they look, but quite another when people openly discriminate against someone because of HOW they look.

The US is also largely MADE UP OF overweight people. We're amazingly overweight as a people, and particularly as a people who so condone bias against overweight.

And keep in mind, it's a chicken/egg situation. Yes, being overweight does seem to correlate positively with apnea, but I think there's nearly as much evidence that HAVING apnea can lead one to BECOME overweight as there is that being overweight causes apnea.

It's not inconceivable to me that this could be another case where the medical community looked at a coincidental relationship (in the true sense of the word, two effects coinciding with one another), and completely screwed up which was "cause" and which was "effect".

Just my two cents.

hhunt wrote:I guess the attitude I see is that a lot of these people don't think it is going to change having OSA so why bother losing weight. They all think that the world is against fat people. I am not against fat people because I have become one. I will now take responsibility for it and do something to increase the value of my self worth and health.

Wash your mouth out!

Taking responsibility? Oh yeah, I know that. I have been going to a doctor for five years to "take responsibility" for my "self worth and health". Nothing worked. Absolutely nothing. I just kept gaining weight. And being wracked with guilt about it. Because I was "taking responsibility".

My aunt told me that it was good that I'd injured my foot because then I would be "motivated" to loose weight. I had to hang up the phone or I would have said something I regretted. Motivation! If motivation was all it took, I'd be a supermodel by now. Well, not a supermodel, I don't give a stuff for fashion, but I wouldn't be a blubber-whale. You think I like feeling like a blubber-whale? You think I like feeling squeezed when I sit in an armchair? You think I like only being able to shop in "larger sizes" stores, which only have clothes suited for grandmothers? You think I like being morbidly obese?

It wasn't until a good friend finally managed to persuade me (after repeated efforts) that it wasn't my fault I was so fat, that someone as morbidly obese as I has to have something physically wrong with them, some metabolism problem, some chemical imbalance -- then I was able to let go the guilt and stop trying to lose weight by willpower alone. Instead I devised a Cunning Plan to remove myself from temptations that my body couldn't resist, by having better food more easily available, right by my side.

And it so happened that I'd been on CPAP for almost a month when this breakthrough happened. And for once in my life, a scheme to lose weight worked, and kept working. (Except over Christmas, but well, that was Christmas...)

And now I know that my friend was right -- it was a health problem that was causing my weight gain. OSA. One of those vicious circles where one aggravates the other: OSA -> fat -> OSA. But because I was on CPAP, my efforts worked for the first time. Because I was getting rested, because I was getting stage 4 sleep, because I didn't feel like total crap all the time.

So much for "taking responsibility".

No, I still don't think that losing weight is going to change my OSA. Losing weight is not going to be a miracle cure for anything. But there's sure as heck of a lot of other reasons for "bothering" to lose weight.

We don't need people slapping us to give us "motivation". We need encouragement to keep going.

Dear RubyKat,

Bravo, Bravo, Bravo!!! Your last post said it all, and then some. I commend you for not giving up and fighting the status quo. I wish I had some of your wit.

Peter
Portland, Oregon
USA

RubyKat,

It is your fault and you did "take responsibilty". For all of us, it's our fault. Nobody is putting the food in our mouths. Taking responsibilty doesn't mean starving yourself, it means taking the initiative to solve the problem. Sounds like you have done that. The struggle for all of us is to work to keep the "motivation" to lose weight greater than the "tendancy to gain" weight (whatever the cause). You have tipped the scales by decreasing the "tendancy to gain" by treating the OSA.

I read so many "why me", "it's not my fault" posts from those trying to get used to cpap therapy. Until all of us realise that we have to take reponsibilty for our own health and that no one else is to blame for having to use the hose, we won't move the odds in our favor in our quest to be healthy.

(thanks, Peter)

wading thru the muck! wrote:I read so many "why me", "it's not my fault" posts from those trying to get used to cpap therapy. Until all of us realise that we have to take reponsibilty for our own health and that no one else is to blame for having to use the hose, we won't move the odds in our favor in our quest to be healthy.

The "blame game" is a bunch of crap, whether it's blaming oneself or blaming others. We are in this boat, we have to row it. The only useful reason for the "Why?" question is to help us figure out what direction to row in.

And, yes, it is not my fault that I have sleep apnea. Unless you consider that an 18-month old toddler is wise enough to not fall out an open second-storey window? Guilting for stuff that's not my fault is stupid, and I'm not going to let anybody slap guilt on me about it ever again. Just because it isn't my fault doesn't mean I'm going to whine about it not being my fault. It means that I'm free to row this boat without a great big anchor dragging me back.

Why do we have this disease? Because Stuff Happens. And it happened to us. So we just gotta get on with it, and neither whining nor guilting will help us do that.

It is a really complex issue. Regardless of fault and etiology, I think that the fatigue imposed by OSA can make it a practical impossibility to deal with the other issues at the root of obesity. For me it is a miracle that I have not been fired by now and manage just to make it to work each day, let alone make three healthy meals and work out regularly.

However, as I start to feel better and more rested I notice that many of the same crutches remain (soothing myself with my favorite foods, not exercizing despite having the energey to do so). Biologically we gravitate to the most calorically dense and fatty foods (it is an evolutionary survival mechanism). That paired with the abundance of cheap fatty foods and an economy which expects so much of us (I think we lead very unaturally stressful lives) I do not think it is suprising that those with OSA very easily succumb to these temtations/environmental variables.

Who is to blame? I am not sure...it is a complex issues with a lot of roots. If it was mere personal choice we would not be a society of fat people in a society which HATES fat people.

However, I do think that while it is important to understand the reasons/ triggers which make us as we are they fact remains that we are the only ones who can control how much activity we get and what we eat. I think that part of this is forgiving yourself )for things beyond your control) and self love. The other half (which I have yet to master) surely must be choice.

apneanet.org: SLEEP PROBLEMS MAY BE CAUSING YOUR WEIGHT GAIN

Excerpt:
The team of researchers from the University of Southern Mississippi specifically examined this second factor. Peszka noted, "The hypothalamus, a part of the brain involved in many motivated behaviors, may be the link between eating and sleeping. Animal studies have shown evidence for this relationship; however, so far there is very little evidence in humans."

To investigate the possibility that decreased REM sleep is related to obesity in sleep apnea patients, researchers examined the relationship between a patient's weight and a common treatment of OSA, nasal continuous positive airway pressure (nCPAP), using 163 patients from Forrest General Hospital's Sleep Disorders Center in Hattiesburg, Mississippi. The researchers' model predicted that patients with the least REM sleep would weigh the most before treatment began, and would show the greatest weight loss with successful nCPAP treatment.

Peszka and her colleagues found evidence to support these predictions. OSA patients with the smallest amount of REM sleep were almost 20 lbs heavier than other patients at the time of diagnosis, and patients with the biggest increase in REM sleep following treatment showed the greatest weight loss at follow-up.



Sleep Loss Boosts Appetite, May Encourage Weight Gain

Excerpt:

By providing the first data on the relationship between sleep and the hormones that regulate hunger, this study helps to confirm and begins to explain the connection.

Van Cauter and colleagues studied 12 healthy male volunteers in their early 20s to see how sleep loss affected the hormones that control appetite. Theses hormones -- ghrelin and leptin, both discovered in the last ten years -- represent the 'yin-yang' of appetite regulation. Ghrelin, made by the stomach, connotes hunger. Leptin, produced by fat cells, connotes satiety, telling the brain when we have eaten enough.

Van Cauter's team measured circulating levels of leptin and ghrelin before the study, after two nights of only four hours in bed (average sleep time 3 hours and 53 minutes) and after two nights of ten hours in bed (sleep time 9 hours and 8 minutes). They used questionnaires to assess hunger and the desire for different food types.

"We were particularly interested in the ratio of the two hormones," said Van Cauter, "the balance between ghrelin and leptin."

After a night with four hours of sleep, the ration of ghrelin to leptin increased by 71 percent compared to a night with ten hours in bed.



Stanford Study Links Obesity To Hormonal Changes From Lack Of Sleep


Excerpt:

Researchers believe that sleep loss impacts several hormones related to appetite and food intake, and two such hormones - ghrelin and leptin - are thought to play a role in the interaction between short sleep duration and high BMI.

Ghrelin, which was discovered five years ago and is primarily produced by the stomach, triggers appetite in humans: the more ghrelin you have, the more you want to eat.

Leptin, a hormone produced by fat cells, is a signal indicating insufficient metabolic reserve and the need for consuming more calories. Low leptin levels are a signal for starvation and increased appetite.


Missed ZZZ's, More Disease?

Excerpt:

"In further experiments, sleep-deprived test volunteers showed other hormonal changes that promote weight gain. Men who were held to 4 hours a night had markedly reduced 24-hour leptin concentrations compared with when they were fully rested, Van Cauter's research team reported at the 2001 Association of Professional Sleep Societies meeting in Chicago. Leptin is a hormone that signals satiety and regulates energy balance; mice that lack leptin overeat and become morbidly obese.

Van Cauter reported that although the men's food intake was adequate, the dip in leptin they exhibited was equivalent to that seen in people underfed by 1,000 calories a day for 3 days. In other words, the leptin signal was telling the men's bodies that they were short nearly a pound's worth of calories. That misleading signal might cue the body to slow metabolism, increase fat deposition, and overstimulate appetite."

I have been away for a couple of days and found this thread interesting. I agree that I have not read any post that people think that being overweight does not add to OSA but from what I have read and talked to a relative that is a Dr. losing weight will not get rid of OSA. Losing weight will make it a little better but not cure. I am overweight and in the past 4 years gained more weight and my OSA got worse, but from what I have felt and talking to my wife and other close family I have had apnea for most of my adult life. I fell into what I understand that is the usual rut of bieng tired and trying to eat to get the energy that I thought I needed to get through the day and making OSA worse by gaining weight, feeling more tired and eating to get energy.I am losing weight and waiting for the second night of test to set up machine. I also have read some post that people have lost weight since getting their cpap. I can't wait to get everything and start getting a good night sleep. I have also heard in the news that people who get at least eight hours of sleep lose weight more easily. At no point have I ever not took the blame for my weight problem, but knowing what I do now I know why I could not lose weight easily.

HHunt, I don't think it is a misnomer for those who are overweight to think that the "world hates fat people". They do.

Over the past 8 years I have gained almost two hundred pounds (going from 135 to 330 at 5 9"). With the exception of my loving husband people do treat me differently. Before my weight gain I used to get a lot of attention fron men. While I can do without sleazy advances, I find that I am often treated without even the most basic consideration by those in public and even get the occassional insult on the street. In my work I find I have to go that extra mile to constantly fight the perception that I am lazy, and there are those that simply will never accept me because they don't want their image tarnished by fat company. There are some opposing counsel who don't even take me as seriously as my (less accomplished) peers I find that I have far fewer people interested in my friendship (despite the fact that I am far funnier, down to earth, interesting and mature that I was 8 years ago). Luckily those friends that I have are true ones. Perhaps most painful are those that look away because it is uncomfortable for them to look at you. I often feel invisable.

There is also the vulnerability...not saying what you really think because you feel that someone will retort "you are fat"...like you are not entitled to stand up for yourself because you are less than human.

Hhunt I don't think this is all in my head...I notice a marked difference in how I am treated and perceived since gaining weight.

RubyKat,

You said:
And, yes, it is not my fault that I have sleep apnea.

I thought we were talking about weight gain? I never said having sleep apnea was your fault.

The blame avoidance "game" is what's a bunch of crap. I also said nothing about "guilt." Taking responsibilty does not require feelings of guilt. The first step in solving a personal problem is admitting the problem and taking responsibility for it. You may not care to do this for yourself, but nobody else will do it for you.

Popinka said:
...fact remains that we are the only ones who can control how much activity we get and what we eat. I think that part of this is forgiving yourself (for things beyond your control) and self love. The other half (which I have yet to master) surely must be choice.

Hurray...That's absolutely right! I completely agree.

My 32 year old son was diagnosed with severe sleep apnea about 3 months ago. But he became very claustrophic when they put the mask on. He considered surgery (he has OSA) but heard many bad things about aftereffects and people still having to use CPAP. Right now he is on Weight Watchers and has lost 25 pounds and has gone from a size 40 waist to 34. He is also working out at a health club 4 times a week. But he still has Sleep Apnea so will still have to go the CPAP route. The weight loss may have improved his apnea a small part but the physical problem is still there==enlarged tonsils, hanging uvula and deviated septum. Those don't go away.