OT: Windows 10 becoming automatic download

Sonnyboy wrote:So I can figure out how to make a "boot USB" and then work with a program from the boot USB without taxing my current computer????

If, I'm understanding correctly, this doesn't feel too threatening. I just don't want to be working on a project with imminent deadlines and at the same time working on an unfamiliar computer system.

I found this for you: http://www.ubuntu.com/download/desktop/ ... on-windows

I wouldn't want to DO much while running on a usb stick, but it's a great way to try some things in ubuntu and see if you like it.

then, if you find a version you think you like, you can tell it to clear some space on your hard disk, and install it so you can run it normally, off your harddrive.

I take a different stance on this than Palerider....

Use the correct tool for the job. You don't switch to Linux because it is cool, you switch because it will be a better daily workstation than Windows will be. For most people here, that won't be the answer.

Example, I could have written this on my phone, but it is much easier to use my desktop to write it. What is the better tool? If I am sitting waiting for my wife to finish up at the store, the phone might be the only available tool. but I am at home, and a full desktop with a full keyboard is a better tool.

Look at all the software you currently use and see if you can find a similar or the same tools that also works under Linux. You might find other tools, but then you need to learn how to install and use them. You might find that your webcam has no support, or your printer can't scan because there are no out of the box, auto downloaded drivers for it. Perhaps the console GUI can't do a function you need and you have to use the command line to do whatever tweak or changes that you need done. Do you already know BASH or one of the other common shell scripting languages you will need to know to do that?

A Linux proponent will say there are graphics programs available and their are word processing, mail and other programs as well, but with Windows there may be 20-30 options for each of those categories where there is only one or two if any for Linux. And a Linux version of word processing might be pretty good, you will have trouble dealing with sending between you and a Windows users using different tools.

If you use/create a lot of graphics, are a gamer, have to interact with Business enterprise, chances are Linux is not for you at least not as a primary workstation OS.

Want to play with Linux to see what it is like, setup a virtuallized version on your Windows with VMWare, VirtualBox or some other sandbox protocol, and you can try all kinds of Linux distros and still have Windows as your main OS.

Linux is not like Windows. Unlike Windows which comes from 1 company, Linux distros are made by many companies and organizations some having radical ideas of how to do it the "right" way.

Good example, RedHat or CentOS (notice neither is on Paleriders List). Very popular in business as a server OS, but you won't find a large business using it for a desktop for their employees or any other Linux distribution for that matter either. Not on a mass scale. If you are dealing on a business level with other companies you will spend tons of time finding out you are not compatible and can't do what they do using Linux.

They use windows because Window is Windows.... Aside from the different versions XP, Win7, Win8, Win8.1, Win 10, they are all basically the same. Little learning curve as you move from to the other is more cosmetic and variations of the GUI, but they are all from the same company. Software that runs on one of them, has a high chance of working with all of them out of the box (or download which is more common now) and they just work.

Linux is a distro that comes from many companies, and they don't necessary look alike, work alike, or even use the same underline common tools like do you prefer SysVinit or SystemD (if you even know what that means).

You can spend a ton of time getting a Linux desktop to do the gazillion things you can just do with Windows by simply downloading a program installing it and it just works. With Linux, you might have tweak this or compile that etc... to get anywhere close.

I've been a Unix guy for more than 30+ years... have many Unix/Linux servers at my fingertips, Really Like them, but I don't use Linux as a desktop. Not enough time in the day to play that game. At work, I have access to fully gui based Unix servers, but they are not my desktop. I still have to interact with business in general and those tools simply don't exist in the Linux world.

I have programs that I use for graphic design, development, working with other businesses, accounting, some games though I am not a gaming person really, that you will never get running on any variation of Linux out of the box, no hassle up and running and "working".

But if all you do is email, some browsing, etc.. and don't need to use a lot of out of the box download and work programs, Linux might just be for you..

However, one of the first clues Linux might not be for you as a fully time workstation OS, is the question you asked...

Sonnyboy wrote:Is there a Linux forum??

If you are going to use Linux, you should have already looked that up rather than asking on a CPAP forum a question that can so simply be figured out with a simple search. Because if you are going to use Linux, you will have to do that a lot for stuff you right now take for granted using windows.

This is not a hack against you, but if you are not intuitive enough to know where to quickly find the answer to that, Linux might not be for you.

Not a MS fan, don't like what they do, how they are distributing Win10, but that 78yo Grandma wouldn't even have a chance if I gave her a Linux box.

Krelvin wrote:Not a MS fan, don't like what they do, how they are distributing Win10, but that 78yo Grandma wouldn't even have a chance if I gave her a Linux box.

it wouldn't wipe out here desktop and set her fonts to something so tiny she couldn't find the screen, though.

Krelvin wrote:However, one of the first clues Linux might not be for you as a fully time workstation OS, is the question you asked...

Sonnyboy wrote:Is there a Linux forum??

If you are going to use Linux, you should have already looked that up rather than asking on a CPAP forum a question that can so simply be figured out with a simple search.

hell of a thing to say to someone exploring options.

"do you know everything about it"

"well, no... I am..."

"RUN AWAY NOW!!!!!"

it's not for everyone, no, but for people with some time, and interest, and who are tired of paying Micro$oft all the time, the idea of a FREE operating system with a very large selection of FREE programs that costs nothing to get and try out might be appealing.

vmware, virtualbox, really? compared to the simplicity of a live cd/usb? REALLY?

I just don't get it. I am one of those "old" retired people, and my job did not require much computer skills.

My laptop is cheap - about $300. There are two browsers loaded on my laptop - Firefox and another one with the four color circle (I don't know the name.).

My son told me to download a free office suite called Apache. I use the word processing function and the spreadsheet function. I use Sleepyhead and Acrobat Reader. Just about everything else I do is in the browsers.

My son told me to download free AVG protection software. It must work because I have never gotten a virus.

My email is GMail. If my computer ever crashes, I have the documents and photographs backed up on an external hard drive. If this laptop fails, I will just try to find another one, and it looks like you can still get one for around $300. People told me not to buy the model I have now (HP 2000 laptop), and the reviews said it was junk. Ha! It's three years old, and it looks like it will last another three years.

I started out with Windows 8.0 and soon updated to 8.1. Later it upgraded to 10.0.

No problems! So cheap. So easy. I no longer trust the "experts".

Can you tell how excited I am about my computer?

When I retired, it seemed a little intimidating to buy my own laptop and get everything working. It was a little difficult at first. But, now it seems so easy and trouble free.

Thank you Windows and HP and whoever makes the chips.

palerider wrote:

Sonnyboy wrote:So I can figure out how to make a "boot USB" and then work with a program from the boot USB without taxing my current computer????

If, I'm understanding correctly, this doesn't feel too threatening. I just don't want to be working on a project with imminent deadlines and at the same time working on an unfamiliar computer system.

I found this for you: http://www.ubuntu.com/download/desktop/ ... on-windows

I wouldn't want to DO much while running on a usb stick, but it's a great way to try some things in ubuntu and see if you like it.

then, if you find a version you think you like, you can tell it to clear some space on your hard disk, and install it so you can run it normally, off your harddrive.

I've been using Knoppix for some years now ( http://www.knopper.net/knoppix/index-en.html ) a Debian Linux variant, primarily as a toubleshooting tool when a PC won't boot or is otherwise broken is some way. You create a bootable CD (or preferably a DVD - more tools and such will fit on that since a DVD is about 6 times the capacity), then boot the computer from the CD/DVD (assuming you have the PC's BIOS set to boot from CD/DVD before the hard disk).

The latest KNOPPIX editions have a little utility once they're running that will create a bootable USB stick version for you up to 32GB in size (for larger size USB stick space over 32GB will be ignored and not used). You can even have an encrypted file system embedded on the USB stick for stuff you want to save on the portable KNOPPIX. And you'll likely have access to the hard disk on the PC you're booting on for access to those files.

Give that a spin if you think Linux might be for you. You'll download an .ISO file that contains the CD/DVD content, then use a program like ISO Buster to burn that DVD image to a physical blank disc.

Thank you for all the responses.

I use the computer everyday mostly for research, document writing, email, and reading this forum.
I have very little interest in social media. I am on one Forum---this one.

I simply want a stable system that does not crash, lose my documents, lose my email, or attract viruses. I am willing to pay for support but in my opinion the Microsoft support line is not accountable for their work and many of their techs simply are not trained well.

I was using AVG in October when a virus took over my computer. I did purchase the Microsoft help line.

The Microsoft help line, after multiple attempts and hours on the phone cleared the virus.
Each new Microsoft tech criticized the work of the prior tech which is very unsettling in itself.

I purchased Outlook, the Microsoft tech sold me the wrong version and during the installation wiped out my software, all my documents, and all my email. Microsoft has no accountability. I was passed from one tech to another via phone traveling through multiple countries. My requests for higher level tech support were refused. My requests for a supervisor or manager were refused. The techs were very rude. After literally 10 long hours on the phone one day, one of the techs discovered the first tech sold an Outlook version not compatible with my software. No apologies for the hours of rudeness.

I was sold Office 365 and I don't like this version at all but I use it . Outlook has crashed 3 times. Each fix took hours. The Microsoft paid support line makes mistakes, downloads incompatible programs, wipes out software versions, loses critical documents and email. They demand online access to your computer when there is a problem. They are on a timer and do not think or ask questions before they act and in that process they create more problems. Tech after tech criticizes the work of the prior technician and tells me how great they are while they demand access to my computer.

My original question was asking how to prevent Microsoft from downloading Windows 10. I do not trust Microsoft any longer and I simply do not want any automatic downloads. I want to keep Microsoft out of my computer while I decide what I am going to do.

A lot of the responses coming in are way over my head and I know that but I appreciate all the efforts. I read every response, learn a bit more, and eventually hopefully will come up with a plan.

Sonnyboy wrote:lose my email

Are there any advantages to Outlook over Gmail?

I had serious problems with Outlook, and now have been using Gmail for over two years without a single problem.

I had Outlook when I retired, but when I bought my cheap laptop I switched to Gmail. I like it much better, and there is no worry about losing my email. Plus, anywhere I go, all that is needed is a borrowed computer with a browser to access my Gmail.

Susie Kay wrote:

Sonnyboy wrote:lose my email

Are there any advantages to Outlook over Gmail?

I had serious problems with Outlook, and now have been using Gmail for over two years without a single problem.

I had Outlook when I retired, but when I bought my cheap laptop I switched to Gmail. I like it much better, and there is no worry about losing my email. Plus, anywhere I go, all that is needed is a borrowed computer with a browser to access my Gmail.

I had the Outlook 2003 professional version for years. Worked great. Very stable. Great support.

Current microsoft techs do not appear to know how to configure Outlook to the individual user.
They know one way of doing things and do not listen.
I went to the Microsoft store and the tech there understood what I wanted and configured everything as I want it.
Worked great for about 3 weeks before it crashed.

Outlook 10 appears unstable. I'm done with it. Outlook 2003 never crashed.

I had email [now legal documents] saved on Outlook.
I have copies saved out of Outlook but I can not get to them at the moment.
I'm not a computer whiz.

I do not know how to transfer this stuff safely to a stable email system.

palerider wrote:

Krelvin wrote:However, one of the first clues Linux might not be for you as a fully time workstation OS, is the question you asked...

Sonnyboy wrote:Is there a Linux forum??

If you are going to use Linux, you should have already looked that up rather than asking on a CPAP forum a question that can so simply be figured out with a simple search.

hell of a thing to say to someone exploring options.

You left out the part about it not being a hack against him...

Krelvin wrote: This is not a hack against you, but if you are not intuitive enough to know where to quickly find the answer to that, Linux might not be for you.

just based on observations of people trying to get into Unix/Linux over 30 years. Whether someone is good at figuring things out and know how to find answers quickly on their own is a huge indicator.

palerider wrote:it's not for everyone, no, but for people with some time, and interest, and who are tired of paying Micro$oft all the time, the idea of a FREE operating system with a very large selection of FREE programs that costs nothing to get and try out might be appealing.

The problem with FREE is Time is not Free. I know a guy who makes a weather processing system. He has FREE updates, but seems to break things every time he does an update. His response, "It's Free" stop complaining. But if you have to spend 2-3 hours fixing what broke, then Free really isn't really free.

Note that the upgrade of Win10 was FREE... But how much time does it take for someone to figure it out? That is not free.

palerider wrote:vmware, virtualbox, really? compared to the simplicity of a live cd/usb? REALLY?

Yes REALLY. When using the CD/USB you now only can run Windows OR Linux. You don't have have access to both at the same time. So every time you need to do something and you can't or have not yet learned how to do it in Linux, have to reboot go back to Windows, do the whatever, and then reboot to Linux.... What if you need to do two things at once?

Using a FREE VMware Server, Virtual Box or other virtualization system is a great way to learn a new OS or Distro while still having the Windows system available that you already know., you can run both at the same time. Allowing you to do things you already know how to do while you are learning the other. It is quite a common way of learning Linux.

The best way to know if someone will be able to pick up something new is to see if they have the 3 keys.. TIME, APTITUDE and DESIRE. If you have all three, you can do just about anything.

I know 12-13yo's that have all three and pick this stuff up like drinking water.

Susie Kay wrote:Are there any advantages to Outlook over Gmail?

If you are only using it for Email or contacts, most likely you can (and have) used Gmail with good success. If you are a business, Outlook is much more. Email, Collaborated Calendar, Collaborated Contacts.

You just need to remember where the files are stored. Google stores them for you. There are backup programs to save a copy on your computer if Google loses them, deletes your account etc.. but they are fairly good. Use both a personal (several) and Business Google Gmail accounts as does most of the family now.

Sonnyboy wrote:I had the Outlook 2003 professional version for years. Worked great. Very stable. Great support.

Current microsoft techs do not appear to know how to configure Outlook to the individual user.
They know one way of doing things and do not listen. I went to the Microsoft store and the tech there understood what I wanted and configured everything as I want it. Worked great for about 3 weeks before it crashed.

I've never paid for Microsoft support so I have no idea how it that works. I know from a business perspective, when dealing with them on a server level for Email via O365, they are not very useful, take too long or simply don't know the answer.

MS #1 goal is to get everyone over to O365 where everything is a subscription now. Like Win10 will end up being.

Sonnyboy wrote:Outlook 10 appears unstable. I'm done with it.

You mean Outlook 2010? Had issues, most are using Outlook 2013 now.

The leap from Outlook 2003 was big because of the "ribbon"... (not a ribbon fan)

In business, Outlook 2013 is what I use now, fairly stable, but I don't use it for personal use. Gmail and an webmail solution called Roundcube is what I use. I have not yet seen Outlook 2016 which is newly released.

Sonnyboy wrote:I had email [now legal documents] saved on Outlook.
I have copies saved out of Outlook but I can not get to them at the moment.
I'm not a computer whiz.

I do not know how to transfer this stuff safely to a stable email system.

Legal documents should always have a print out and stored in a safe place. Having a copy in email is convenient, but not if you lose them or can't access them.

Depending on where and how you saved the Outlook files, there are ways to migrate to Gmail. I've not actually done that myself, but there appears to be a number of docs on how to do it.

Or perhaps you can get someone to help you do it.

Thanks guys for the primer on Linux variations... something to consider given the ongoing reports on Win 10.

I would suggest that a person starts with the software ... many of the popular programs are available in both window and linux ... like Firefox or chrome browser... Thunderbird for a mail client.... Libire office of word processing and spread sheet...Gimp for graphics and photo correction all of these are available in windows versions .. so you can see if they will work for you.

If these three or four programs do all you need then you can transition to linux and they will all work the same.

As for the look and feel of linux ... there are several desktops that are very similar to windows.
And except for very unusual things most everything can be done in GUI environment.