I thought I couldn't fall asleep

I actually don't think that using meds is the best way to go. I think that taking control of the situation rather than giving control to a medication is better, but this is just my opinion. If you want to take meds, have a serious talk with your therapist about it, and make sure you try out the medication before you try it with CPAP. I used ambien for my titration, and it worked for a few hours to get the results, but I hated it, and would never use it again.

WindCpap wrote:I actually don't think that using meds is the best way to go. I think that taking control of the situation rather than giving control to a medication is better, but this is just my opinion. If you want to take meds, have a serious talk with your therapist about it, and make sure you try out the medication before you try it with CPAP. I used ambien for my titration, and it worked for a few hours to get the results, but I hated it, and would never use it again.

WindCap,

If you have read my posts, you will know that usually, I am totally against meds. But as I have learned regarding my situation, nothing is ever black and white.

Personally, ambien doesn't do bleep for me but many people find it very useful and I am not going to tell someone not to use it based on my experience when theirs might be different. My thought process was that Cmmmarti, if she wants could use it in a PRN basis in the manner that a former forum member used it who had trouble with insomnia. She was instructed by her PA to use sleep medication if she had two bad nights in a row and she got to determine what qualified.

In light of cmmarti's job situation, knowing that she had ambien as a rescue med might take the pressure off of her and actually might lead to sleep without her taking the med.

She definitely should talk to her doctor and psychologist about the possibility and the decide what is best for her and not based on what the opinion of the forum is whether it is pro or anti meds.

49er

I don't think I suggested in my post that meds are absolutely out. The most important point I wanted to make is that if the OP is taking a break until next week from CPAP, then it would be a good idea to try a sleeping pill one night before then to see if there any serious negative effects so that if there are, she can avoid using them with the CPAP.

If your mask and pressure settings are okay, this might be about anxiety, especially about getting enough rest for work.

I sit in the dark quietly before bed - with no interruptions - and do some neck rolls to get rid of the stress. I immediately yawn, and that's good. It's an indication stress is being relieved. Just set your IPhone alarm for even 5 minutes and make yourself sit. One of the problems with our world today is everyone is a human doing rather than a human being.

If you can meditate? All the better.

I used to say, "God! PLEASE LET ME SLEEP!" Now I say, "God? If I sleep I sleep. If I don't, I know it'll be okay." Like anything worthwhile, believing this takes practice, trust and belief.

You will sleep when you let go of your demand to sleep.

Hopefullady wrote:I used to say, "God! PLEASE LET ME SLEEP!"

This reminds me of something I used to pray for...patience to deal with life's problems that got handed to me.
"God..give me patience" "God...help me deal with so and so".....
and he never seemed to answer because it seemed like all I ever got was life's hurdles in various forms.
Then one day a light bulb went off in my head. He was sending me life's hurdles to TEACH me so that I learned from the hurdles and instead of just giving me something he made me work for it.

Funny thing about learning that lesson and that light bulb going off....after that I had a lot more patience and the hurdles were considerably fewer and smaller.

Hopefullady wrote:If your mask and pressure settings are okay, this might be about anxiety, especially about getting enough rest for work.

I sit in the dark quietly before bed - with no interruptions - and do some neck rolls to get rid of the stress. I immediately yawn, and that's good. It's an indication stress is being relieved. Just set your IPhone alarm for even 5 minutes and make yourself sit. One of the problems with our world today is everyone is a human doing rather than a human being.

If you can meditate? All the better.

I used to say, "God! PLEASE LET ME SLEEP!" Now I say, "God? If I sleep I sleep. If I don't, I know it'll be okay." Like anything worthwhile, believing this takes practice, trust and belief.

You will sleep when you let go of your demand to sleep.

Thanks everyone. For the first time I feel like I can do this, because I've gotten rid of all of the other masks and have settled on one. I have been doing the same thing "God, please let me sleep!" I will start doing this instead. If I don't sleep, I know I'll be ok.

Unfortunately I stayed home from work again today. I woke up and felt so exhausted that I felt like I couldn't go to work, but I'm not sure what good that did me because I tried to sleep in and couldn't. Tomorrow I'll go to work no matter how I feel.

Someone asked how I feel with the mask on my face. With all of the masks that cover something (either nose or nose and mouth) I feel panicked and want to rip it off. The times that I did fall asleep, I would wake up and rip it off an hour or so later. With the P10, I don't feel anything really. Just aware there is something there. It seemed uncomfortable at first but it bothers me less now. I have a ceiling fan and can feel it on my cheeks and it feels good. It feels nice and I tell myself "this is what I need" because I don't have a lot of stuff strapped to my face.

I know we all go through hard times and our attitude can make or break us. I have no idea why I am going through this but it could be worse, and at least there is a remedy for my issue.

I will keep you all posted. I sincerely appreciate the support.

As far as not using the mask - last night I did try to sleep with it. After an hour I gave up, but the funny thing is I couldn't sleep without it either. I think now I'm afraid to sleep without it - or I tell myself that I really need it. I really do need it. I know there are people who reject CPAP and just say no and roll the dice. I'm not willing to do that.

So I guess the question is: do I try to sleep tonight with the mask and if I don't sleep at all then so be it, or do I just not bother at all? I don't want to not bother. I know I need it. And I feel like I cannot sleep without it because I'll worry.

I would rather stay away from meds if possible...I don't want to get addicted.

I will continue my weight loss program. I carry all my weight around my middle. I've read that contributes to sleep apnea. They say for every extra 20 pounds you weight, you are 6 times more likely to have this issue. I feel very bad I didn't commit to losing the weight sooner. It must play a factor in why I'm so severe.

I will try to decide what to do about tonight...I hate to just not use the machine. And I honestly feel panicked without it now. But I do have to function at work tomorrow.

cmmarti3 wrote:o I guess the question is: do I try to sleep tonight with the mask and if I don't sleep at all then so be it, or do I just not bother at all? I don't want to not bother. I know I need it. And I feel like I cannot sleep without it because I'll worry.

Tough call. Your mind is messing with you in both directions.
Goes along with what I have said in the past "the mind is a powerful drug...and sometimes it's a good drug and sometimes it's a bad drug"

I was just going to ask if you slept well with the mask off to see if the insomnia was just related to the mask and machine or if you would have the insomnia monster mess with you even without the mask in the picture.

From our chats in the past I get the sense that you may have worked yourself up to almost an anxiety like situation worrying about the mask/machine use and needing it badly and your mind gets in a panic over getting to sleep either with or without the mask.
You worry about the apnea events if you don't use the mask so you can't sleep or your try to use the mask and you worry about various things with the mask/machine use so you can't sleep.
Damned if you do and damned if you don't.

If this is a real panic attack situation and you are getting to the point that you can't sleep period (with or without the mask).....I am not so sure that I wouldn't at least talk about the possibility of some medical intervention short term to help you get past this biggest hurdle with your doctor. Drugs... Sometimes there is a time and place for them and they don't have to be of the addicting type if that is a great fear of yours...we sure don't want to add another fear into the mixture that you have going on.

Best thing I could have done -- and I learned it here -- is to use my CPAP while I read or listen to a podcast for awhile when I first lie down. Usually it's a 20-minute or so podcast and within a week of starting therapy, I was falling asleep before the end of the show.

I like "Stuff You Missed In History Class" which is available on iTunes.

IDontSnoreISwear wrote:Best thing I could have done -- and I learned it here -- is to use my CPAP while I read or listen to a podcast for awhile when I first lie down. Usually it's a 20-minute or so podcast and within a week of starting therapy, I was falling asleep before the end of the show.

I like "Stuff You Missed In History Class" which is available on iTunes.

Sorry for this OT response but it sounds like that might be good for getting me back to sleep when I wake up prematurely.

49er

cmmarti3 wrote: I would rather stay away from meds if possible...I don't want to get addicted.

I understand that one, everyone worries about that. That's why I made very sure to set a time limit (a week) and to stick to it. I have to say, that my curiosity about whether I'd be able to go to sleep without Ambien overwhelmed any tendencies I may have towards addiction in any case *smile*. Since I started sleeping (after one night of really sparse sleep that I get after using Ambien, and that makes me really tired for the next night *smile*) almost immediately after stopping the Ambien, I never went back to it.

But I agree, that has to be signed off on by your sleep doctor and therapist, that it's appropriate for you. Personally, don't think that a week of Ambien is going to addict anyone unless they have a predilection towards addiction in the first place. But that's a layman's opinion *smile*...your opinion is the one that matters.

At any rate, the path that you choose is yours. All I can do is wish you the best with your therapy. You will get through this, and look back on what you learned in the process. And maybe share that to help others *smile*.

I would recommend continuing to do your relaxation/self hypnosis exercise each night when you are wanting to go to sleep -- after using the bathroom, and if you have to get up to use the bathroom, start again with the relaxation. It sounds like it worked for you when you tried it. When we get used to certain relaxing rituals, our brains and bodies use those as a signal to sleep. You can also come up with a few suggestions/affirmations that resonate with you and repeat them to yourself when you are in that relaxed state. Possible examples: "I easily fall asleep and stay asleep, and I awaken in the morning feeling rested and refreshed." You get the picture. Repetition is your friend with these.

I remember now that when I firs started (5+ years ago), I used to heat up one of those wraps in the microwave and drape it around my lower back when I got into bed, utilizing it as something that would help make me more comfortable and relaxed so I could go to sleep with the alien on my face. To this day, I use that wrap when I go to bed. I no longer need it to get to sleep, but it feels so darned good that I figure why deny myself that simple comfort?

Dear all: I took a leave of absence from work and put your advice into play. Two nights ago, I fought all night. I kept changing masks. I hate something covering my nose. I hate something in my nostrils. At 5am on Thursday morning after being awake all night, it occurred to me that the Dreamwear mask neither goes in my nostrils nor covers anything, so I pulled it out, watched the fitting video and put it on. I probably slept 3 hours or so. I felt like a zombie the entire day Thursday.

Last night I was in bed at 7:45 pm, I was so exhausted I could not make it one more minute. Believe me, I tried. I was up and down and a lot of the night, however I did sleep. And I never, ever was in bed without the mask. I don't think I ever slept more than 2 hours without waking up, but I never slept without it. The fact is, I have an AHI of 42 without the CPAP. I know what is happening to my body and I really cannot sleep without it. As the doctor told me: "you don't sleep without the CPAP". So what is the point of being in bed without my mask? I'm damaging my organs and not sleeping anyway, so there is absolutely no point.

Last night my AHI was 9, down from a usual of 19 or 20 which I believe is usually due to me tossing and turning and fighting with the mask. My guess is that the amounts of time I was actually asleep, my AHI was under 3, but I spent quite a bit of time in and out of sleep and trying to get comfy with my pillow. Pugsy has been helping me with my numbers. I've decided to stop worrying about the numbers for the moment - you cannot fine tune something until it's fixed. Fix and then fine tune.

I will never be in bed without my mask again. EVER. It is completely pointless. The CPAP breathes life into me - literally. Thank God for it. And thank God for all of you. I am off of work until January 4th. Plenty to time to get comfortable and figure this out. I clocked a whopping 15.8 hours with my machine last night. Which goes to show, I can totally do this.

You've made a lot of positive changes in a short period of time, good for you... if you don't believe me go back and read some of your earliest postings. Keep up the good work.

Good job. Congratulations.

About the AHI....I am 99.99999% sure that what is showing up is primarily the awake/semi awake/tossing/turning irregular breathing getting flagged and those we have to mentally remove from the evaluation process.

Right now...getting to sleep is the primary objective and the added stress of worrying about fixing something is definitely unwanted. We will worry about any fine tuning and fixing once the sleep issues are better controlled and we have a better idea if what is seen really needs fixing.

She has Encore software and can see when the events get flagged and can see if it is close to a known awake time or known period of sleep. From what I have seen the bulk of the flags (which are primarily central) coincide with known awake times and those awake times/events don't count anyway.
For the short periods when sleep has happened the reports look quite decent.

Here's hoping for continued success with the DreamWear mask.

Pressure lines are quite stable and don't really move much so I don't think that the variable pressure is much of a problem. I think that the bulk of the problem is just a hungry insomnia monster that feeds on anything and everything in an effort to stay alive. Stress seems to feed him a lot...so we want to reduce stress by any means possible.

What about changing the mental picture from something unwanted stuck to your face to a costume party (c. 1700) where everyone's wearing ball gowns and holding (on a stick) masks to their faces, really loving being able to hide behind them... the mystery, being whoever you choose to be behind the mask and not letting anyone dislodge it... wander around, enjoy the music, check out the hot guys behind their own masks.