AHI and what it means

If you get a card reader I can help you get the software that works with the M series machine.
SleepyHead won't work at all but Encore will and as long as you have a Windows computer you can use Encore.

Pugsy wrote:

tiredandscared wrote:But the effects of sleep fragmentation are largely reversible, the loss of cells is not. I'd rather be your friend than have 6 AHIS and drop into the 60s and 70s. The times my oxygen drops notably during days where my sleep is bad( to 86%, and I haven't even been able to gauge my extent of oxygen desaturations, because of how finger measurement affects sleep position) I feel like I wake up a retard. And I have relatively mild issues(I'll sleep as car passenger or on computer while relaxing).

I am having a really hard time following your logic here and I am NOT saying that drops in oxygen are unimportant...I am just saying that this statement

Pugsy wrote:Desats or rather (hypoxemia) as measured by SPO2 are the single most important factor in OSA.

Read any studies and books on OSA. Every single one of them point to SPO2 drops, being the single most important factor in OSA disease severity and the development of comorbid conditions.


simply isn't necessarily true for the bulk of OSA patients.

Pugsy wrote: It might be the single most important thing for you but it isn't for everyone....and that statement gives the impression that if someone doesn't have desats then they don't have a problem and that simply isn't true.
I didn't want a newbie reading it and thinking that "my O2 doesn't drop so I don't have OSA" and not follow up getting appropriate therapy. There's a whole lot more to Sleep Disordered Breathing than just O2 levels...maybe not in your eyes but for the bulk of the population there's so much more to getting good sleep..

Then that's their problem for not reading and comprehending my posts fully. I never said that OSA without SPO2 desaturations doesn't affect quality of sleep and cause symptoms. But OSA without desaturations is relatively benign, compared to OSA with time below SPO2 measurement of 90%. Disturbed/fragmented sleep is screwed up for sure. But it's not equvalient the potential of developing multiple degenerative/permanent sequalae as a result of oxygen desaturations.

I have a windows pc, I will see if I can get a card reader I'm not sure how to pm on here....is encore respironics software? Where do I get that?

Thanks for all the info and replies, I have learned a lot

Burner

I have a headache from beating my head against the desk.
Tiredandscared...believe what you want but when you give out incorrect/incomplete information then this

Then that's their problem for not reading and comprehending my posts fully

is a problem and one that you should not take so lightly. We can't read your mind...whatever is left after all your damage. When you give out incomplete/incorrect information someone will come behind you and try to fix it even if you don't think it needs fixing.

Have a good day. I wish you the best of luck in your therapy.
This means, in a nice way, that I am done trying to explain things to you.

keroseneburner wrote: I will see if I can get a card reader I'm not sure how to pm on here....is encore respironics software? Where do I get that?

Nanwilson will gladly send you her card reader since she no longer needs it for her M series machine.
You might offer to reimburse postage though...it will be coming from Canada.
As far as the software....that's free. I will send you a private message in a few minutes so check your private message box (up in left corner by the user control panel).

Pugsy wrote:I have a headache from beating my head against the desk.
Tiredandscared...believe what you want but when you give out incorrect/incomplete information then this

Then that's their problem for not reading and comprehending my posts fully

is a problem and one that you should not take so lightly. We can't read your mind...whatever is left after all your damage. When you give out incomplete/incorrect information someone will come behind you and try to fix it even if you don't think it needs fixing.

Have a good day. I wish you the best of luck in your therapy.
This means, in a nice way, that I am done trying to explain things to you.

Stop being a drama queen, go read some actual studies and books on OSA. "SOMEONE DISAGREES WITH ME, LIFE IS SO FRUSTRATING, I'M GOING TO DISENGAGE BECAUSE I CAN'T STAND SOMEONE HAVING DIFFERING OPINION THAN ME, RIGHT OR WRONG ". Facts are facts. Every single medical practioneer would agree with me that Sleep fragmentation/Sleep arousal<SPO2 desaturatons. You want base your understanding based simply on anecdotes and experiental stuff. Go head. But for the love of god, stop being so overly emotional about it. This goes for every single person on here.

tiredandscared wrote: But for the love of god, stop being so overly emotional about it. This goes for every single person on here.

I don't think that I am the drama queen here and you might be surprised as to what I have read and learned and know about all this OSA stuff that you think you are the sole expert on. Wanna bet that I have read and learned a lot more than you ever thought about???
People better than you have disagreed with me and I lived through it. I think I can manage you without losing any sleep on it.

If you dish out incorrect or incomplete advice...someone (might not be me but just happened to be in this situation) will call you out on it. Fact of life. Just dish out complete information or state "in my opinion I think so and so" and know one will bat an eye.
If you don't want to do that....the next person that tries clarify your incorrect/incomplete information likely won't be nearly as nice as I am about it.
Or the next time I won't be so nice either.

My apologies to OP in this thread for getting things side tracked but I felt that in this situation the potentially harmful information stated as fact here needed further explanation and sometimes some people just don't like further explanation.

Oxygen levels are indeed very important but the lack of oxygen desats doesn't mean there isn't an OSA /SDB problem at work and surely isn't the only important thing to look at. There's a big picture involved and if there wasn't a big picture then this whole cpap therapy stuff would be a walk in the park. It's pretty easy to keep oxygen levels up if that's all it took and we wouldn't need this forum if that were the case.

tiredandscared wrote:

Pugsy wrote:This means, in a nice way, that I am done trying to explain things to you.

Stop being a drama queen, ... Facts are facts. Every single medical practioneer would agree with me that Sleep fragmentation/Sleep arousal<SPO2 desaturatons. ... This goes for every single person on here.

I know this isn't going to make any difference to you, or how you think, because you don't give a good god damn about anything anybody else says, you've been trolling this forum for months now with your incessant questions, and your half baked opinions, and spreading bogus information. you've annoyed lots of people, and contributed nothing, you don't even know what it's like to sleep with a cpap yet, however you're more than willing to spout garbage at others.

facts are facts, opinions differ. you have a tenuous grasp of things, at best, but like so many others that have no concept of their limitations, you think you know everything, and are *incapable* of realizing that you don't.

you have no experience, none, zip, nada, and it would be nice if you had the intellectual ability to realize that *FACT*.

Pugsy wrote:Oxygen levels are indeed very important but the lack of oxygen desats doesn't mean there isn't an OSA /SDB problem at work and surely isn't the only important thing to look at. There's a big picture involved and if there wasn't a big picture then this whole cpap therapy stuff would be a walk in the park. It's pretty easy to keep oxygen levels up if that's all it took and we wouldn't need this forum if that were the case.

yeah, you're exactly right... sleep is important, you can spend the night not being able to get much or any restorative sleep because you're constantly being roused by the apneas, or hypos, and still have the o2 high enough... but not be able to REST and RECOVER.

there's plenty of studies that have been done over the years on sleep deprivation, and the effect it has on a body. none of those had anything to do with o2 desats.

Pugsy wrote:
Oxygen levels are indeed very important but the lack of oxygen desats doesn't mean there isn't an OSA /SDB problem at work and surely isn't the only important thing to look at. There's a big picture involved and if there wasn't a big picture then this whole cpap therapy stuff would be a walk in the park. It's pretty easy to keep oxygen levels up if that's all it took and we wouldn't need this forum if that were the case.

And were have I stated that SDB can't exist without Oxygen desaturations? Can you quote a single sentence of mine stating this? Can you explicitely do this? Nope, because I never said this. You're reading what you want in my post. It's like you deliberately misunderstad what I wrote, looking for an clause that isn't there.

Pugsy wrote: I don't think that I am the drama queen here and you might be surprised as to what I have read and learned and know about all this OSA stuff that you think you are the sole expert on. Wanna bet that I have read and learned a lot more than you ever thought about???
People better than you have disagreed with me and I lived through it. I think I can manage you without losing any sleep on it.

If you dish out incorrect or incomplete advice...someone (might not be me but just happened to be in this situation) will call you out on it. Fact of life. Just dish out complete information or state "in my opinion I think so and so" and know one will bat an eye.
If you don't want to do that....the next person that tries clarify your incorrect/incomplete information likely won't be nearly as nice as I am about it.

Yeah i'm sure, that's why you can't parse text, and put words in my mouth, every post so far. I don't know what you think you've read that gives you some otherworldy knowledge about OSA. But it's unlikely anything that you can't find in medical literature and studies on the disease itself. I'm very civil here. I've dealt with far nastier people than this forum. So nothing anyone can say here will phase me. This is the internet, there is no ceiling for bad/nasty. It's kinda futile to point to this.

Palerider wrote: I know this isn't going to make any difference to you, or how you think, because you don't give a good god damn about anything anybody else says, you've been trolling this forum for months now with your incessant questions, and your half baked opinions, and spreading bogus information. you've annoyed lots of people, and contributed nothing, you don't even know what it's like to sleep with a cpap yet, however you're more than willing to spout garbage at others.

facts are facts, opinions differ. you have a tenuous grasp of things, at best, but like so many others that have no concept of their limitations, you think you know everything, and are *incapable* of realizing that you don't.

Tenous grasp? Can you actually make a factual rebuttal, or should we just take your word for it. Because you know, your opinion "of something", not actually meeting someone with sources or anything factual or clinically proven, makes anything you say valid and truthful. I don't know why you're on my case all the time, and pop up in every thread that I post to throw around the "trolling" accusation loosely at your own whim. Like it's some sort of all-encompassing objective condemnation, that isn't biased by interpretation. That's about the only damned thing i've seen you do regarding my posts. You haven't meet a single post of mine with any factual or objective counterarguments. You're like a broken record on a loop that only says "troll". And you make statements and accusations without any actual examples or any substantiations.

I'll start taking you seriously, when you bring sources and medical literature to your counter-arguments. Not 2 sentences with "troll". I know my limitations, but you're the type to throw out accusations out of personal dislike/disagreement or some other petty reason.

Forum participation:



Some things simply speak for themselves.

tiredandscared wrote: I don't know why you're on my case all the time, and pop up in every thread that I post to throw around the "trolling" accusation. Like it's some sort of all-encompassing objective condemnation. That's about the only damned thing i've seen you do regarding my posts. You haven't meet a single post of mine with any factual or objective counterarguments. You're like a broken record on a loop that only says "troll".

well, first, I've had you on ignore for some time, because you have yet to post anything worth reading, so I've certainly NOT popped up in every thread that you've littered. I've only seen your drivel when someone else quotes it in order to correct it.

secondly, if you actually posted knowledgeable, well researched, and substantiated, possibly even referenced information, then there'd be nothing to say about it, however, your stock in trade is arguing with people that have more knowledge than you do, and far far far more *experience* than you do, reading a little bit that supports your preconceived notions, and then pompously spouting off your half baked information, acting like it's the gold standard.

I'm not the first person to suggest you're just trolling, but maybe you're not, maybe you're just an ignorant, opinionated narcissist that suffers greatly from the dunning-kreuger effect. I wouldn't know. what you *AREN'T* is someone who knows what they're talking about.

palerider wrote: well, first, I've had you on ignore for some time, because you have yet to post anything worth reading, so I've certainly NOT popped up in every thread that you've littered. I've only seen your drivel when someone else quotes it in order to correct it.

Examples?

palerider wrote: secondly, if you actually posted knowledgeable, well researched, and substantiated, possibly even referenced information, then there'd be nothing to say about it, however, your stock in trade is arguing with people that have more knowledge than you do, and far far far more *experience* than you do, reading a little bit that supports your preconceived notions, and then pompously spouting off your half baked information, acting like it's the gold standard.

Everything i've stated so far is backed by facts. I'll start citing everything, so you can stop with your baseless accusations and personal attacks from now on. So everyone can stop lighting their ass on fire, and act like i've committed some sort of heinous sacrilege, every time the normative understanding of sleep apnea here is challenged. I might not have the same length of experience living with OSA or CPAP, but I've read more than enough to understand OSA.

Pompous/half-baked, . You've yet to present your own counter arguments. As for all these adjectives, it's all your own opinion. You're very welcome to them.

palerider wrote: I'm not the first person to suggest you're just trolling, but maybe you're not, maybe you're just an ignorant, opinionated narcissist that suffers greatly from the dunning-kreuger effect. I wouldn't know. what you *AREN'T* is someone who knows what they're talking about.

Again broken record.

tiredandscared wrote: Again broken record.

post something useful, post something that's not cherry picked to support your preconceived notions. show us you have something other than *VERY* incomplete book learning. or be prepared for people to correct all of your misleading statements.

for instance: "Desats or rather (hypoxemia) as measured by SPO2 are the single most important factor in OSA."

desats are ONE aspect of the detrimental effects of sleep disordered breathing, but your blasé statement totally disregards the impact of sleep fragmentation and deprivation, effects including:
http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/94/3/804.full
http://www.researchgate.net/profile/Mic ... 000000.pdf
and many others, which you might know something about, if you weren't so busy thinking you already knew it all.