What can cause a PRS1 Auto to malfunction without warning?

yaconsult wrote:The mask is extremely important! Modifying masks is probably not a good idea. There is a lot of variation as to which kind of mask works best for each person. Check the results of the poll I posted here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=104522&p=985849&hilit=+poll#p985849
There seem to be lots of masks available on craigslist so you may want to try some different types. The breeze nasal pillows work wonderfully for me.

Thanks, I will do that. I am afraid to try nasal pillows until I can relax enough to trust breathing through my nose!

Pugsy wrote:FWIW....those reports I talked about where the auto machine was behaving like cpap mode...I initially missed the leak being the problem because the total leak was off the chart more or less and I was eyeballing the bottom (excess leak) line and thinking it was the top leak line.

With people new to the software reports...what they say they are seeing...I don't doubt it but we need to see to confirm that we are all on the same page with what we are seeing and thinking.
I have had people tell me that the numbers off the excess leak line graph were the total leak (top line) because that's what they thought. They didn't understand what the difference was.
It's just easier to ask for a screenshot so we can all see what the OP is seeing.

Not sure why SleepyHead is being flaky for you but if you have a Windows computer and want to try Encore send me a private message. Encore is strictly Windows though.

PM sent! I will work on it more tonight but SH just spazzes out on me allowing brief glimpses then it starts jumping around again. I tried reinstalling it and locking the SD card to no avail.

Pugsy wrote:Your machine choice in your profile points to the 50 series Auto CPAP model 550/551 and I see it just fine so everything appears to be correct.

If you could get a screen shot of the detailed report it would be really helpful.
Only thing we need to see is the stuff on the left side...AHI and statistics (turn off the pie chart and hide the calendar) and on the right side these graphs
Events
Pressure
Flow rate
Leaks

don't need any of the other graphs.
Examples of how it looks and explanation of how to get it done can be found here
viewtopic/t103468/Need-help-with-screen-shots.html

When I first installed SH I had a tab that gave me the option to hide graphs but when it started flaking out the option disappeared and did not return when downloaded it again. I never have much control over what I see with SH. I kind of wait for it to decide to jump onto the area I want and then try to read it real quick before it decides to show me something else *l* I think something got corrupted and have a few options to try but they might take a day or two along with everything else going on.

mralaska wrote:When I first installed SH I had a tab that gave me the option to hide graphs but when it started flaking out the option disappeared and did not return when downloaded it again. I never have much control over what I see with SH. I kind of wait for it to decide to jump onto the area I want and then try to read it real quick before it decides to show me something else *l* I think something got corrupted and have a few options to try but they might take a day or two along with everything else going on.

Have you tried running the brokenGL version that is already on your computer? It's in the same folder as the sleepyhead program you're using now. Give it a try - it's there for people who have issues with their graphics hardware:

BrokenGL - These are special compatability builds, that run on a wider range of video hardware. This is the more "foolproof" build.

mralaska wrote: The PRS1 reports the numbers in a way that makes it easier to track total leaks. The Simplus is probably in the mid 30s from what I have read so I would like to get the leak under 50 (in my numbers).

I am hitting a few local options to see if I can get a better mask today, and also scouring the 'net to find something to order. It might be cheaper to order the parts for the Simplus, which can accommodate any size cushion on the standard frame.

Thanks for seconding Pugsy. It was disheartening to consider my machine might be going bad and I am starting to feel better. When I get the mask situation under control I will set the minimum to 6 or 7 as you suggest to go back to "Auto" mode. The first night it stayed right at 6 between events.

if you check the manual for the simplus (which you can download a pdf of online) it specs the intended vent rate, at 4cm (which you said your pressure was staying at) to be 22lpm.

you can get mask parts from ebay, amazon, directhomemedical, and even cpap.com (if you want to support the nice folks that provide this forum)

you can't buy a complete mask without prescription, but you can buy all the parts and put it together yourself. sometimes when you buy from amazon, or ebay, you get the parts, plus a 'bonus' which often is the rest of the parts to make the full mask, sometimes in unopened packages (I bought some p10 nasal cushions with headgear +bonus on ebay, the 'bonus' was that it was an unopened package, with the hose/frame assembly too... aka, a complete mask.

yaconsult wrote:

mralaska wrote:When I first installed SH I had a tab that gave me the option to hide graphs but when it started flaking out the option disappeared and did not return when downloaded it again. I never have much control over what I see with SH. I kind of wait for it to decide to jump onto the area I want and then try to read it real quick before it decides to show me something else *l* I think something got corrupted and have a few options to try but they might take a day or two along with everything else going on.

Have you tried running the brokenGL version that is already on your computer? It's in the same folder as the sleepyhead program you're using now. Give it a try - it's there for people who have issues with their graphics hardware:

BrokenGL - These are special compatability builds, that run on a wider range of video hardware. This is the more "foolproof" build.

Thanks. I did try BrokenGL but it did not help.

I saw a post made by a woman who posted a screen shot that looked like my screens, although I don't know if hers was jumping around. Her problems were attributed to corrupted data on the card and she was advised to switch to another app until she could get a new card. I started out with a new card but one of the first times I used it I forgot to lock it. I cleared the data after that but not sure if I could have dug deeper.

palerider wrote:

mralaska wrote: The PRS1 reports the numbers in a way that makes it easier to track total leaks. The Simplus is probably in the mid 30s from what I have read so I would like to get the leak under 50 (in my numbers).

I am hitting a few local options to see if I can get a better mask today, and also scouring the 'net to find something to order. It might be cheaper to order the parts for the Simplus, which can accommodate any size cushion on the standard frame.

Thanks for seconding Pugsy. It was disheartening to consider my machine might be going bad and I am starting to feel better. When I get the mask situation under control I will set the minimum to 6 or 7 as you suggest to go back to "Auto" mode. The first night it stayed right at 6 between events.

if you check the manual for the simplus (which you can download a pdf of online) it specs the intended vent rate, at 4cm (which you said your pressure was staying at) to be 22lpm.

you can get mask parts from ebay, amazon, directhomemedical, and even cpap.com (if you want to support the nice folks that provide this forum)

you can't buy a complete mask without prescription, but you can buy all the parts and put it together yourself. sometimes when you buy from amazon, or ebay, you get the parts, plus a 'bonus' which often is the rest of the parts to make the full mask, sometimes in unopened packages (I bought some p10 nasal cushions with headgear +bonus on ebay, the 'bonus' was that it was an unopened package, with the hose/frame assembly too... aka, a complete mask.

Thanks. I did not think to look and did not realize leak specs were published. I will look into the manual later. I think the total leak rate was worse the first night with the undersized quattro so I am thinking the tubing I used may have affected the sensing of the signal but the only way to tell is to hook it up to a proper mask and I will need a decent mask regardless. I had not checked Ebay but I have seen complete masks in "kit" form without Rx which are complete but not assembled.

Right now I am going to head into the city to see if I can find any parts available locally while the stores are open, then try internet options after. Worse case tonight will be to use the undersized mask again. If it will not work as APAP I will use it as a CPAP until I set up the other machine I got from Craigslist which I need to figure out because it is a bipap. My printer keeps shrinking the sizing template for Simplus so I am hoping to find a supply store that has a real one so I can check for proper size but the cheapest fast option seems to be to buy the right size cushion along with the proper swivel and new hose to give that a try.

The response here has been overwhelming. Big thanks to everyone!

mralaska wrote: If it will not work as APAP I will use it as a CPAP until I set up the other machine I got from Craigslist which I need to figure out because it is a bipap. My printer keeps shrinking the sizing template for Simplus

what I did was resize the template on my screen till it was full size, (I checked it with a ruler) then I measured whatever dimension it checked, again with a ruler, in the mirrror) and then held that up against the screen. (didn't have a printer handy)

that said, there's usually some setting in the PDF printing to size the output to get it 'full size', it varies from program to program and OS to OS.

also, leaving the machine on apap is fine, that way if you DO get enough seal, it'll start doing it's thing.

just raise the minimum pressure, since 4cm isn't coming close to doing it for you

palerider wrote:

mralaska wrote: If it will not work as APAP I will use it as a CPAP until I set up the other machine I got from Craigslist which I need to figure out because it is a bipap. My printer keeps shrinking the sizing template for Simplus

what I did was resize the template on my screen till it was full size, (I checked it with a ruler) then I measured whatever dimension it checked, again with a ruler, in the mirrror) and then held that up against the screen. (didn't have a printer handy)

that said, there's usually some setting in the PDF printing to size the output to get it 'full size', it varies from program to program and OS to OS.

also, leaving the machine on apap is fine, that way if you DO get enough seal, it'll start doing it's thing.

just raise the minimum pressure, since 4cm isn't coming close to doing it for you

I don't trust myself to do it your way! I would surely mess up something.

My PDF settings print original size but I finally remembered the shrinking is done through the advanced settings of my printer. If it detects anything outside the printable area it will shrink it in. I set it up like that because I do part time notary work and some of the packages have page numbers on the very edge. They get mad at me whether the pages get clipped or if they get shrunk but they don't seem to notice it as much if the pages are shrunk a little. I used to change the setting when I need a true original size but ever since W7 I have lost the ability to access the settings through the USB cable. My printer is a workhorse but much like everything else in my life past its prime and no longer supported.

I was able to use a graphics program to capture the template then print it true size and it actually looks like I may be in between the Simplus large and medium, but I have ordered a medium to check it out and also a swivel to make it stock again. I have a feeling the heavy tubing I used may be attenuating the vibration signal or something. I will know if the problem is with the machine tonight when I switch to the undersized Quattro mask for another try on Auto. I will get something to work if I have to shave my face and coat it with with jelly. Just kidding, shaving would be a last resort.

My trip to down-town today was a total fail. We have a grand total of one medical supply house in my area that handles CPAP unless you count the parts that can be ordered through Walmart. The local shop does not carry the Simplus swivel so I was not tempted to buy the cushion for $99.00.

mralaska wrote: I don't trust myself to do it your way! I would surely mess up something.

My PDF settings print original size but I finally remembered the shrinking is done through the advanced settings of my printer.

hey, whatever works

mralaska, the minimum APAP pressure you are using is pretty hard for most of us to tolerate as it seems to not supply enough air pressure to keep the airway open. One of the basics of using an APAP is to increase minimum pressure to the point it is sufficient to maintain the airway most of the time. This reduces the pressure swings and gets you into the sweet zone for treatment faster.

To do this on your machine, just turn the dial to setup, then press both the control knob and ramp button at the same time. Now, dial to setup again and press once. You can now scroll through the settings. You are looking for Min Pressure. Change it to 6.0 and press the control knob to set. Now be sure the ramp is set to off. You can now scroll to BACK, and you're done.

Here is a link to the clinician manual and some pictures of how to adjust settings on your machine. http://www.apneaboard.com/pr-system-one ... structions

Sleeprider wrote:mralaska, the minimum APAP pressure you are using is pretty hard for most of us to tolerate as it seems to not supply enough air pressure to keep the airway open. One of the basics of using an APAP is to increase minimum pressure to the point it is sufficient to maintain the airway most of the time. This reduces the pressure swings and gets you into the sweet zone for treatment faster.

To do this on your machine, just turn the dial to setup, then press both the control knob and ramp button at the same time. Now, dial to setup again and press once. You can now scroll through the settings. You are looking for Min Pressure. Change it to 6.0 and press the control knob to set. Now be sure the ramp is set to off. You can now scroll to BACK, and you're done.

Here is a link to the clinician manual and some pictures of how to adjust settings on your machine. http://www.apneaboard.com/pr-system-one ... structions

Thanks. I had it on 4 because it was the first time using a cpap and I had read where a sleep tech said in the lab they start out with the full range and then see where the pressures want to ride, which did happen to seem to bottom out around 6 so I will probably use 6 (or maybe a bit more?) for a baseline in auto going forward. I certainly found out about the lack of keeping the airways open when it failed on me the second night! I don't think "ramp" is available as an option in Auto mode as it starts on the minimum anyway? Ramp does not tempt me because at lower pressures I keep checking for air to see if it is even flowing *l* If I had to set it over 10 cm h20 in CPAP mode then ramp might tempt me. In Auto the flex modes did not tempt me but I discovered in CPAP that I liked a little C-flex mixed in my air.

On a minor but more successful note; I removed all my profile info from SH and installed from scratch which is now working like a charm (except for when it gets confused, but at least it is stable now!)

Day 1: This is the first day using apap with the undersized Quattro mask. Definately room for tweaking and improvement but I woke up full of energy and feeling better than I could remember.


Day 2: This chart is messed up. The graphs reflect only the 2-3 hr portion that failed me but the statistics are mixed up with the stats from the next four hours in CPAP mode that do not show any more (they did at first but disappeared when I was preparing for the screen shot.) The AHI is actually 39.4 for this portion and there are some other numbers captured that may not match the displayed charts. I might be able to mess with the data to force it to show the entire night including the CPAP portion but not sure if it is worth the trouble.

Nice job figuring things out! For your charts, use the Img tag at the top of the box where you type your text in for the link to your chart pictures. That way, the picture will appear directly inside your post and people won't need to click on a link to see it.

Ramp is a separate setting - either on or off. It sounds like you may already have it turned off.

Just for your education about AFlex...when you had the pressure set to the 4 cm minimum you never really got to try AFlex because it won't work unless the minimum pressure is 6 cm or higher.
No wonder it didn't do anything for you...it wasn't working.

yaconsult wrote:Nice job figuring things out! For your charts, use the Img tag at the top of the box where you type your text in for the link to your chart pictures. That way, the picture will appear directly inside your post and people won't need to click on a link to see it.

Ramp is a separate setting - either on or off. It sounds like you may already have it turned off.

Thanks! I used a link because I was too lazy to downsize them. If I embed them with the IMG box will this board make a thumb? I have seen forums that when you embed a large picture it will break the formatting making the screen wide and force people to scroll sideways.

Pugsy wrote:Just for your education about AFlex...when you had the pressure set to the 4 cm minimum you never really got to try AFlex because it won't work unless the minimum pressure is 6 cm or higher.
No wonder it didn't do anything for you...it wasn't working.

Thanks. I actually did not try the A-flex but that is good information to have on hand if it comes up. When Auto was working I was fast asleep before the pressure built and exhaling did not bug me enough to wake up and be bothered. Of course, I was having my first good night of sleep in possibly a few decades so it would have taken a lot to bother me!

In CPAP mode, however, exhaling against the higher pressure felt unnatural enough to be distracting while trying to fall asleep. I understand ramp is designed for that purpose but sometimes I fall asleep in 10 minutes and sometimes it takes an hour. With C-flex set at 2 it was totally comfortable and ensured I was covered as soon as I dropped off.

I was just trying on the undersized Quattro mask again and the Auto-on kicked on for the first time (I thought I had it set wrong or something), and then kicked on the second time right after I turned it off. *l* I was definitely dealing with some leak problems the last couple days. I stole the makeshift chin strap off the side-lined Simplus to use on the Quattro and I think it is going to work a lot better this time. I wish there were a way to bench test the Auto mode but I should find out soon enough. Hope everyone has a good night, or at least good enough!