BRAIN TWISTER- WAS THIS PERSON SLEEPING? PLEASE COMMENT.

Hello-

What do these graphs and charts tell you? Beats me...

Was this person sleeping? Please comment.

Hx: Person first fell asleep about 11 pm with light ON and NO CPAP. Woke at 1:55 a.m. on left side. Felt quite good, walked dog, wasn't particularly tired. Hung out on some forums, read, etc.

Was then on Auto CPAP (9.5-12cm) and separate oximeter about 45 minutes entirely awake and reading, etc., and then 'drifted off' with the same.

'Awoke' (uncertain as to whether truly slept at all) as depicted at about 7 a.m.

Comments would be greatly appreciated!

I'm not technical enough to interpret that graph (others can), but I will say it is almost universal that people in sleep labs will get up in the a.m. and absolutely swear they did not sleep... but in fact did, for varying amounts of time, they just drift off (all recorded) but feel so crappy in the end they're don't believe they slept at all.

Thread posted as interested in opinions based solely on the hx given, and the charts/ graphs, as to whether the person slept and quality of such sleep, or if they technically slept at all.

What can be inferred here?

Who here can give me their analysis of the data and hx provided?

Also, is there an estimate of sleep architecture that can be inferred from the oximetry report(s), which include SpO2 and pulse? Definitely curious about that.

Thanks!

Insufficient data, context needed.

chunkyfrog wrote:Insufficient data, context needed.

What do you further need to know?

PM's welcome in lieu of posting here. I may summarize the content of a PM without disclosing its author to avoid any embarrassment. Or just post here.

tedburnsIII wrote:Thread posted as interested in opinions based solely on the hx given, and the charts/ graphs, as to whether the person slept and quality of such sleep, or if they technically slept at all.

What can be inferred here?

Who here can give me their analysis of the data and hx provided?

Also, is there an estimate of sleep architecture that can be inferred from the oximetry report(s), which include SpO2 and pulse? Definitely curious about that.

Thanks!

"Best guess" from the chart data...

First 20 minutes you may have dozed off. The next roughly 25 minutes seem restless along with some tossing back and forth. You may have dozed off again at roughly 50 minutes and had a desaturation that jolted your heart into a spike. After that it looks like a period of inactivity and rest and maybe light sleep.

What are you REALLY looking for?
Without a EEG, like in a lab, one can only guess when you were asleep.

HoseCrusher wrote:"Best guess" from the chart data...

First 20 minutes you may have dozed off. The next roughly 25 minutes seem restless along with some tossing back and forth. You may have dozed off again at roughly 50 minutes and had a desaturation that jolted your heart into a spike. After that it looks like a period of inactivity and rest and maybe light sleep.

I am going to ask that you basically ignore the first 45 minutes of the data and analyze the periods thereafter. I did mention that the person was AWAKE while on CPAP and oximeter for that 45 minute period and then drifted off.

The O2 data from the last 45 minutes reminds me of what I see when I am driving long distances in very light traffic. Basically boring activity. You can also see this after you wake up and don't want to get out of bed but just lay there. During this time you may drift in and out of a light sleep. Usually in deeper stages of sleep you will see more variability in O2 and pulse.

chunkyfrog wrote:What are you REALLY looking for?
Without a EEG, like in a lab, one can only guess when you were asleep.

Can one infer anything from an oximetry report as to sleep architecture without an EEG? Here, for example, is oximetry report from another night, provided solely to clarify that particular inquiry:

Do note the xPAP was set at Auto:

HoseCrusher wrote:The O2 data from the last 45 minutes reminds me of what I see when I am driving long distances in very light traffic. Basically boring activity. You can also see this after you wake up and don't want to get out of bed but just lay there. During this time you may drift in and out of a light sleep. Usually in deeper stages of sleep you will see more variability in O2 and pulse.

Portion in bold underline, above, seems quite informative.

I am OP in this thread. I purposefully have avoided commenting on my subjective feelings of restfulness or wellness this morning upon 'awakening' and thereafter because I am trying to learn more about what can be gleaned from the charts and graphs provided.

I want to see if the charts, graphs and hx are consistent with the way that I've felt today, or not. This relates in part to Julie's first post in this thread.

How you feel TODAY may not reflect how you slept last night as there are many other variables you are not providing that could have affected your quality of sleep and how you feel today. One night doesn't make a pattern.

Krelvin wrote:How you feel TODAY may not reflect how you slept last night as there are many other variables you are not providing that could have affected your quality of sleep and how you feel today. One night doesn't make a pattern.

Good point, but last night I first fell asleep WITHOUT CPAP with LIGHTS ON and slept for about three hours, and upon awakening from that 'nap' I felt quite refreshed, despite lack of CPAP or Lights OUT.

Forgot to mention in the hx that I became hungry and ate some things before retiring again.

Power naps (even long ones) can feel great on occasion... but don't be fooled, that's all they are, one-offs, and as was said, too many other things can be happening on an individual day/nite to try to see any patterns.

tedburnsIII wrote: Can one infer anything from an oximetry report as to sleep architecture without an EEG? ...

I happen to appreciate data from complimentary sources. My cardiologist suggested I have a sleep study done. I bought an oximeter to give me a base line of where I currently was and the idea was to be able to contrast it with xPAP use.

When I received my oximeter I took it to the local fire station and they compared its output with several of the ones they use. I also gave it to my cardiologist who checked it against the ones used in the hospital. The end result was that it gave "acceptable" results. I re-check it annually.

I wore my oximeter during my sleep study and when I went to meet the sleep doctor I brought along my print out. I fired my sleep doctor after that meeting but not before getting my sleep study results.

I meet with my cardiologist and showed him the oximetry report I had recorded and asked him what he could make of it. He proceeded to go through the data and make "best guesses" of what he saw that was going on. I was amazed that his "best guess" nearly matched the sleep study report. At this point I asked my cardiologist if he could give me some pointers on reading my oximetry reports. Either he is a really nice guy, or I am really persuasive, but in the end I got quite an education.

The gold standard is the EEG, but there are a lot of hints that show up on the oximetry report.

I love the data from the xPAP machine, but realize that it is totally based upon air flow. Adding an oximeter gives you two additional channels of data, O2 and pulse rate. Sometimes the additional data can help.