The Same Horrible Old Rain-Out Issues

Well, I have tried everything but a hose cover (which I have ordered) for rain-out. And the worst part of it, it wakes me up because the water moves the seal of the nasal pillows off to the sides and all the air comes rushing out and wakes me up. If I don't get this corrected somehow, I may have to abandon CPAP, as the wet unstable pillows wakes me up all night as soon as I readjust them. Temperature to 80 degrees and humidity level set at 2.0. I don't know why this is happening all of a sudden but it is. I have ordered a hose cover and hopes this helps. Is a hose cover my best bet on a heated Climate Line hose? Will this eliminate rain out once and for all? Thank you

Luthie2006 wrote:Well, I have tried everything but a hose cover (which I have ordered) for rain-out. And the worst part of it, it wakes me up because the water moves the seal of the nasal pillows off to the sides and all the air comes rushing out and wakes me up. If I don't get this corrected somehow, I may have to abandon CPAP, as the wet unstable pillows wakes me up all night as soon as I readjust them. Temperature to 80 degrees and humidity level set at 2.0. I don't know why this is happening all of a sudden but it is. I have ordered a hose cover and hopes this helps. Is a hose cover my best bet on a heated Climate Line hose? Will this eliminate rain out once and for all? Thank you

Hose cover, room temp and lowering the machine are ways to eliminate rainout...what is the "everything" that you have tried?

I have tried increasing the temperature to 80 from 75 and then lowered it originally to 70. I tried decreasing the humidity level to 2.0 from 3.0
My bedroom is around 67 or 68 degrees with not much humidity now. I know Pugsy had mentioned to increase the temperature. I thought that worked but it has not. And several people on here have said the way to eliminate rain-out is to increase temperatures and others say to decrease it. I have already decreased the humidity level to 2.0. And a hose cover will be on its way. Is this correct? Thank you.

Is it necessary to lower the machine if you use one of those hose holder gadgets that holds the hose up above your head?

Your exhaled breath contains moisture and it's likely concentrating in the nasal pillows and the air in the nasal pillow cools down due to bedroom temperature and condensation happens.
Did you know that people who don't use a humidifier at all can get rain out in the mask because of the moisture in their exhaled breath?

You haven't tried everything yet...try increasing the temp from 80 degrees to 83 or even max of 86.
Reducing the air temp only will NOT fix the issue. I don't know who told you that but it won't work...cooling the air means that there is a greater chance of the air releasing the moisture. It's physics and physics doesn't lie.
You have to warm up the air (either in the hose or the bedroom) to stop the air from cooling down and releasing the moisture.

You might add some sort of short hose cozy to the short hose to help keep the air warmer that is coming from the heated hose.
Remember that once the air leaves the heated hose it starts cooling down because of bedroom air temperature.
So maybe add a sock over the short hose...cut the toe out and just slide it over the short hose and secure with rubber bands or even bread ties.

Did you know about barrel cozies? They help insulate the nasal pillow itself but usually with the heated hose it isn't necessary.
http://www.padacheek.com/PACSwiftII_Barrel_cozy.html

So...you still have options left.
First of all make sure that if you have washed the nasal pillows that they are thoroughly dry.
Options...
Turn up the air temp on the hose...try 86 degrees.
Turn up the air temp in the house/bedroom or add a space heater.
Add a short hose cozy to help the warmer air coming from the heated hose to stay warmer in the nasal pillow.
Add a barrel cozy to help insulate the nasal pillow itself.

If the air is warmer in the nasal pillows..by whatever method you elect to use....condensation won't happen until the air in the nasal pillow cools to a point where it no longer can hold onto the moisture...it's physics.
You just have to figure out a way to keep that air in the nasal pillow from cooling down.

Thank you Pugsy! I will try raising the temperature now to 86 degrees from 80 and hope that helps. And humidty level at 2.0.
Lots of people said to lower the temperature to where it is cool, but I won't do that, of course. I will raise tonight to 86 degrees. Thank you. Do you suggest a humidity level of less than 2.0? Thank you

AMK wrote:Is it necessary to lower the machine if you use one of those hose holder gadgets that holds the hose up above your head?

The whole idea behind having the machine lower than the mattress is to let gravity help you out when condensation occurs in the long hose...let the water run downhill.
Using some sort of hose management system where the hose is routed upwards...well, water can't run uphill so it doesn't really matter where the machine is in that case.

Lowering the machine won't help when the condensation is occurring in the nasal pillows mainly because due to the way the pillows fit and where the water pools the only way is up and water can't run uphill to even make it to the long hose to have gravity help out when someone is using some sort of hose management system that brings the hose upwards over the head. Water can't run uphill...even if the machine is on the floor any water in the hose or mask can't go down if the hose is routed upward.

Luthie2006 wrote:Do you suggest a humidity level of less than 2.0?

Actually no...not unless it is absolutely the last resort available unless your nasal mucosa is okay with being drier. Mine aren't.
That's how come I have such extensive experience battling rain out in both the hose and the mask...my nose doesn't like dry at all..in fact it likes and needs maximum humidity to be happy.
Factor in a really cold bedroom in the winter and things are just ripe for rain out in both the mask and the hose.
Remember I started therapy before these new fancy heated hoses were available and humidifiers pretty much used heat only to regulate humidity delivery.

So I have use hose cozies and barrel cozies and heated hoses....for quite some time...coming on 6 years now, so I have tried lots of different things in an effort to reduce rain out and by far the easiest fix is simply crank up the heated hose temperature.

If you get rain out in the nasal pillows using 86 degree hose temp...your bedroom is colder than mine by a lot but we still have options to reduce the rain out. A short hose cozy would the next logical step if 86 degrees by itself didn't get the job done.

OK Pugsy I see what you're saying. I'm getting condensation in my nasal mask with no water in the tube, so in my case it might be best to not use the gadget that raises up the hose and put the cpap lower.

AMK wrote:OK Pugsy I see what you're saying. I'm getting condensation in my nasal mask with no water in the tube, so in my case it might be best to not use the gadget that raises up the hose and put the cpap lower.

Yeah...if you stand back and look at how the hose goes...if it is going uphill then it doesn't really matter where the machine is placed because it's physically impossible for water to run up hill if you are using a hose management system holding the hose over your head.

And depending on how the water in the mask actually pools..it may not matter anyway because if the water is settling or pooling in an area that gravity can't help us out ...doesn't matter if you route the hose overhead or not.
I don't use a hose management system but due to the position of my mask and the nasal pillows it really wouldn't matter because where the water wants to pool is in an area where there is no way for the water to even get to the short hose much less to the long hose to let gravity help out. It's still uphill for me even without routing the hose upwards with a hose hangar.

I prefer to just try to prevent the condensation from ever happening in the first place...and using a heated hose to its full potential is the easiest option but if it doesn't work we can try other options.

Thank you Pugsy. I will raise the temperature to 86 and use a sock over the short hose tonight while I am waiting for the larger hose cover to be shipped. The hose is over my head and maybe I will try placing the hose even higher up on the headboard than it is now. So sock over the short hose, 86 degrees and possibly placing the hose much higher? Maybe that will help?

Luthie2006 wrote: So sock over the short hose, 86 degrees and possibly placing the hose much higher? Maybe that will help?

Hose placement won't help or hurt in your situation with the mask you are using....I don't think...since I am not in your home I don't know exactly what you are doing but from my experience with all sorts of the nasal pillow masks...where I run the hose didn't help or hurt any rain out I might have had.

The sock over the short hose and/or the increase in hose temp will be your best bets for reducing rain out.

Thanks Pugsy, I already wrapped 2 socks around the short hose and will up the temperature to 85. Thank you very much. I will continue to keep you posted.

You have ClimateControl. Are you not using the heated hose? With that option you can set the humidifier to AUTO mode, which will keep the humidity of the air delivered to your mask at 80% relative humidity, which will eliminate rainout. Pugsy's right about the hose cover and short hose cozy. A sock works, too. Using the heated hose, I've never had a problem with rainout in 4 1/2 years with the same machine and mask that you use.

However, I also have a machine that doesn't have all the fancy bells and whistles. When I'm traveling I set the humidifier on my Intellipap to 3, and simply route the hose from the machine on my nightstand under the covers. The hose also has a flannel cover, and body heat keeps the moist air inside the hose from condensing moisture.