do you have faith in Homeopathy?

Not all of us can take Western traditional Rx. After Chemo I was unable to take any of the possible post Chemo drugs. When neuropathy came, again I was not able to take the drugs if I wanted to be able to function. What good is it if you are pain free, but unable to think clearly enough to work?

I turned to those alternative therapies. Turmeric may not stop all pain, but it helps. Then I wear my oversized Crocs that help to make walking possible. They allowed that where I taught. Valerian can help with sleep! I was able to drop over 10 points off my 'bad' cholesterol by taking cinnamon and honey in my coffee. Do it daily!

When I need to be on my feet for a long time I can used a Tens unit. If the pain is too unbearable at the end of the day, I have a split bucket I fill with ice water and stick my feet in till they are numb. Some of those treatments have been in use for thousands of years and are rated regularly for use in Europe. Big Pharma does not like this. I agree that better attention needs to be given to the proper production of these supplements. I do my research as I want to keep on living!

Chevie wrote:

Guest wrote:If they ask for my opinion as a client of my private practice, I will tell them what my experience is. But I will not discourage anybody from seeking it out if they feel that's what is right for them.

Yeah, whatever the client feels is right for himself. Suicidal clients included.

Really, come on now. Try to get a little perspective. Suicide is not something to joke about. Myself and my colleagues take it very seriously. Of course there are different protocols for those who are suicidal. But the average person who comes into seek the therapy services isn't necessarily suicidal or on the brink of death. I'm very disappointed with this group. So quick to be dismissive and unable to understand more than just one view point. So quick to bash something and make fun of it in a manner that is reminiscent of my junior high days.

There's no need to be extreme. Prostitutes, suicide. Only 1 person actually understood that I AM NOT ADOVCATING FOR HOMEOPATHY. My point, if you've read any of what I've written, is to support and guide people. To be compassionate. To practice empathetic listening. Not tell them how to live their lives or tell them that they are stupid for choosing a bunk method of treatment.

I've tried to explain why some people might seek out the services. I've said it again and again. And quite frankly? If the Western medical community was more adept at handling mental health issues, you wouldn't be making a joke about suicide to make a point. As a licensed practitioner in therapy, I've worked with many different kinds of folks. And if you think that one size fits all approach is the answer, then you don't know much about human nature.

I bid you all farewell from this thread. The responses I've receive are as nonsensical and full of bunk as homeopathy. In fact, most of you here would probably make the best candidates.

bdz wrote:I turned to those alternative therapies. Turmeric may not stop all pain, but it helps. Then I wear my oversized Crocs that help to make walking possible. They allowed that where I taught. Valerian can help with sleep! I was able to drop over 10 points off my 'bad' cholesterol by taking cinnamon and honey in my coffee. Do it daily!

true, but all those things, unlike what this thread started off about, actually have ingredients in them besides water

Look at the can of worms you dug up, PR.
Funny, tragic, and infuriating.
Something for everyone!

Support, guidance, compassion - all terrific, of course it's what you ideally would do for people, but at the same time shouldn't that support and guidance include helping them to see that a path they may be about to take (or a cliff they may be about to jump off) is not the best way to go? That e.g. homeopaths will take their money, have no more effect than placebos and keep them on the road to getting sicker and sicker because they've been 'supported' in their mistaken beliefs about traditional medicine?

Holding hands is nice, fuzzy and warm, but sometimes a guide needs to expose 'wrong' things for what they are, or all the support in the world will only hurt the person you want to help. People don't dissolve on hearing the truth, they aren't children and need to be informed if something is not going to help. If they need to 'believe', they can go to church, but quackery is quackery and you don't help anyone by supporting them in that.

Which of course is not to say that there isn't a load of good stuff in 'natural' medicine... but it's important to know what's what and what isn't.

chunkyfrog wrote:Look at the can of worms you dug up, PR.
Funny, tragic, and infuriating.
Something for everyone!

don't I even get a little "informative"???

Julie wrote:Support, guidance, compassion - all terrific, of course it's what you ideally would do for people, but at the same time shouldn't that support and guidance include helping them to see that a path they may be about to take (or a cliff they may be about to jump off) is not the best way to go? That e.g. homeopaths will take their money, have no more effect than placebos and keep them on the road to getting sicker and sicker because they've been 'supported' in their mistaken beliefs about traditional medicine?

Holding hands is nice, fuzzy and warm, but sometimes a guide needs to expose 'wrong' things for what they are, or all the support in the world will only hurt the person you want to help. People don't dissolve on hearing the truth, they aren't children and need to be informed if something is not going to help. If they need to 'believe', they can go to church, but quackery is quackery and you don't help anyone by supporting them in that.

Which of course is not to say that there isn't a load of good stuff in 'natural' medicine... but it's important to know what's what and what isn't.

Julie, I'll respond to you because you seem like a reasonable person who wants the best for others. In some of my earlier posts, I noted that the homeopaths I went to never proclaimed to be better than Western medicine. If anything, they encouraged me NOT to stop seeing my MDs. They never told me to ditch Western medicine. They felt that the two complemented each other. Not that one should be a substitute for another. Ultimately, I did not agree. However, I was not getting satisfactory care to begin with from my MDs. I was already sick when I declared that I was fed up with MDs and wanted to try another approach. At that point, my sanity was at stake. And if going to a homeopath and learning for myself that it didn't work helped to preserve that sanity, then it was absolutely worth it. And it was.

Here's an example: I used to work in a diabetes clinic where our patients were low-income and came from a largely Hispanic population. When they were diagnosed, they often told us of remedies that were known to cure this or that in their culture. If we had disrespected their culture and said, "That's a lot of bunk. There's no proof for that", then they might have gotten angry and not taken the meds we did prescribe them. I know this because we had case managers who told them this. And surprise! These turned out to be the least compliant patients. But when we told them, "Oh, that's great! We think you should take the home remedy and the medications we have given you", they were far, far, far more likely to be compliant then those who were mocked for their choice of remedies. And for all I know? Their chosen remedies were nothing more than club soda taken on an empty stomach. We heard some weird stuff. But they swore by it. And we monitored their health.

Yes, we weren't homeopaths taking their money. But that's not the point I'm trying to make. The point I've been trying to make is that if someone wants to give it a go, who am I to say no? A lot of the people that seek out the care of homeopaths are not on their deathbeds. In many cases, MDs had already declared that there was nothing they could do. They weren't on any form of treatment. So what options did they have? What would you have suggested to somebody whose doctor had given up on them or couldn't figure out what was wrong? Didn't seem to care what was wrong. Probably not homeopathy, but what then? What would you suggest? How would you help these people to feel better? Because I have not only been one of these people, but I have helped these people, too. Most of them didn't say, "Hey, I think I'll try homeopathy!" Most of them had heard of a supplement of some kind that they wanted to try. And I always said, "Talk to your MD about it." I had to say that, because as a practitioner, there are liabilities. If they had said homeopathy, I would have said, "Talk to your MD about that." Again, for the same reason. But it's not up to me to tell them it's a waste of their time and money. What if it truly helped them? Placebo or not, what if there was that chance? I think this conversation would be far more productive if people compared their experiences of having gone to homeopaths. A one sided discussion-- is not a discussion.

Hi, I'm so glad you're sticking around because you can talk, reason and come up with interesting stuff. I worked my whole life in teaching hospitals (gee really ) in case you couldn't tell, so I'm sorta biased to say the least, but went one time one day long ago to a homeopath out of curiosity if nothing else, and it was an interesting time, but while I faithfully took the stuff she gave me for a few days, it might as well have been water from a tap, whatever was or was not diluted in there.

I know you're not pushing that, or anything else, and I think it's a very good idea to look as far and wide as we can for whatever might be out there, nutty as it might seem to us today... no question, but in fact as far as this goes (homeo), it has never, ever once been scientifically proven to do a single thing for anyone besides the placebo thing - and that would be ok (making people feel better) if they didn't actually need real medical care but did not get it because they thought they were being treated by the homeo thing... and then possibly got a lot worse, etc. etc. But keep talking here, tell us more about you and where you've been, etc... there's room for lots more and we get sick of ourselves without them.

Thanks, Julie! I think the reality is that nothing is black and white. If someone has a serious health condition and chooses to seek out homeopathy rather than conventional treatment, that is problematic in my opinion. If my mom had decided to pursue some "woo woo" therapy after being diagnosed with breast cancer, I would have had a hard time with it. I would not have told her not to do it. But I would have encouraged her to pursue her chemo and radiation. I think fear plays a huge role here, and I think the Western medical community needs to do a better job of assuaging people's fears about treatment.

But as one lady mentioned here, some people can't tolerate that. She named turmeric and valerian as helpful alternatives that have allowed her to live her life. And yet....how many studies have been done to prove the effectiveness of these supplements? Sure, they're not a pellet dissolved 10,000 times over, but do we truly know what benefits they offer? What their mechanism of action is? How they affect the body in combination with other lifestyle changes we might make? Do we know if it's anything more than placebo? Does it matter if it helps someone?

Thank you, Julie, for sharing your perspective regarding your experience with a homeopath. I think what I find baffling is that I'm aware of MDs who have abandoned their practices and became homeopaths or acupuncturists instead. But not the other way around. Maybe there are some acupuncturists who have gone on to receive their MDs, I'm just not aware of any. But ultimately, I wonder why. What did an MD find so appealing that he/she decided to become a homeopath? Was it money? Maybe. Or maybe they had seen some really awesome placebo effects and were disillusioned by the med-focused, symptom-focused practice found in Western medicine. One of my best friends has been an RN for the past 20 years. She had a hysterectomy in her mid-30s. She has worked with a homeopath for years. And she swears by it. You couldn't get her to try estrogen replacement therapy if you paid her. And she's an RN on her way to becoming an NP. She also doesn't believe in vaccinations. Again, black and white. I have a MAJOR issue with that. Vaccinate your kids! It's one thing if what you do affects you and you only. It's another thing if your actions might result in somebody else getting sick.

Nothing is straightforward. Everybody is different. What works for one person may or may not work for another. But ultimately, I agree that if someone has a serious medical condition, they should continue to seek answers and treatments from an MD. What disappoints me is the growing number of people I know who have been treated so poorly by their MDs. Like my friend who had a terrible migraine for a month that turned out to be a mild stroke. Her doctor didn't tell her for a week after she received the results. To say that she was pissed is a major understatement. It goes both ways, I guess.....

bdz wrote:Not all of us can take Western traditional Rx. After Chemo I was unable to take any of the possible post Chemo drugs. When neuropathy came, again I was not able to take the drugs if I wanted to be able to function. What good is it if you are pain free, but unable to think clearly enough to work?

I turned to those alternative therapies. Turmeric may not stop all pain, but it helps. Then I wear my oversized Crocs that help to make walking possible. They allowed that where I taught. Valerian can help with sleep! I was able to drop over 10 points off my 'bad' cholesterol by taking cinnamon and honey in my coffee. Do it daily!

When I need to be on my feet for a long time I can used a Tens unit. If the pain is too unbearable at the end of the day, I have a split bucket I fill with ice water and stick my feet in till they are numb. Some of those treatments have been in use for thousands of years and are rated regularly for use in Europe. Big Pharma does not like this. I agree that better attention needs to be given to the proper production of these supplements. I do my research as I want to keep on living!

Valerian, cinnamon, honey, and Tens units have nothing at all to do with Homeopathy. Homeopathic is a specific form of treatment involving extreme dilutions of various chemicals.

corvallisgrace75 wrote:Homeopathy may be nothing but quackery. I almost worked with one that came highly recommended and turned out to be a freaking joke that couldn't answer one very basic question I had. But the truth is, if conventional medicine worked in the way that it's supposed to, homeopathy and other holistic medicine practices would not be in existence. It's the failure of the medical community to understand and work with the patient that has driven people like me into the arms of homeopaths. Ultimately, it wasn't any more helpful. But the attention I got was far more positive than anything I've ever received from an allopathic practitioner.

As for "conventional" (i.e. science based) medicine "working," you're making a big mistake here. Any competent science based doctor will admit that there are cases where the doctor won't find what's wrong with their patient. They know that their diagnosis and treatment techniques aren't 100%. They know there are side effects.

The good doctors admit that they don't always know what's wrong or have a good fix. Unfortunately, far too many of them have God complexes and are often wrong, but never uncertain.

As for the good attention from the homeopath, plenty of con men, true believers in dangerous quackery, or incompetent "western" doctors are very good at positive relationships with their victims/patients. Some very technically competent doctors are complete jerks in their dealings with patients, but they do a lot of good for their patients.

corvallisgrace75 wrote:For certain conditions, like diabetes, and in my mother's case, breast cancer, there is an understanding of the condition and a well documented treatment protocol. For my "functional dyspepsia" (as they ultimately called it), nobody could tell me what might be wrong. And nobody seemed to care. For the issues my father had, nobody could tell him what was wrong. And nobody seemed to care. So laugh all you want about alternative methods/treatments. But until the Western medical community figures out what the hell they're doing, you're gong to find a lot of people decrying the benefits of homeopathy and talking about how much better they feel. Just my 5 cents.

Stop and think about what you're saying. Science based medicine has not presented you with an answer you like. That doesn't improve the odds that a particular form of quackery is effective for you.

archangle wrote:As for "conventional" (i.e. science based) medicine "working," you're making a big mistake here. Any competent science based doctor will admit that there are cases where the doctor won't find what's wrong with their patient. They know that their diagnosis and treatment techniques aren't 100%. They know there are side effects.

The good doctors admit that they don't always know what's wrong or have a good fix. Unfortunately, far too many of them have God complexes and are often wrong, but never uncertain.

As for the good attention from the homeopath, plenty of con men, true believers in dangerous quackery, or incompetent "western" doctors are very good at positive relationships with their victims/patients. Some very technically competent doctors are complete jerks in their dealings with patients, but they do a lot of good for their patients.

Stop and think about what you're saying. Science based medicine has not presented you with an answer you like. That doesn't improve the odds that a particular form of quackery is effective for you.

Thank you for posting that Archangle. The constant attacks (by a minority) in this forum on science-based medicine are both silly and tiring. Do they come from people who just like to see their bitching typed out? Or are these people really that ignorant of what science-based medicine is doing for people every day?

Every post that uses "Big Pharma" as a pejorative, I try to totally ignore.

As for just one example, I am old enough to have many friends who are living and thriving today only because "Big Pharma" spent huge amounts of money to research and develop novel chemotherapy treatments for cancer.

archangle wrote:

corvallisgrace75 wrote:Homeopathy may be nothing but quackery. I almost worked with one that came highly recommended and turned out to be a freaking joke that couldn't answer one very basic question I had. But the truth is, if conventional medicine worked in the way that it's supposed to, homeopathy and other holistic medicine practices would not be in existence. It's the failure of the medical community to understand and work with the patient that has driven people like me into the arms of homeopaths. Ultimately, it wasn't any more helpful. But the attention I got was far more positive than anything I've ever received from an allopathic practitioner.

As for "conventional" (i.e. science based) medicine "working," you're making a big mistake here. Any competent science based doctor will admit that there are cases where the doctor won't find what's wrong with their patient. They know that their diagnosis and treatment techniques aren't 100%. They know there are side effects.

The good doctors admit that they don't always know what's wrong or have a good fix. Unfortunately, far too many of them have God complexes and are often wrong, but never uncertain.

As for the good attention from the homeopath, plenty of con men, true believers in dangerous quackery, or incompetent "western" doctors are very good at positive relationships with their victims/patients. Some very technically competent doctors are complete jerks in their dealings with patients, but they do a lot of good for their patients.

corvallisgrace75 wrote:For certain conditions, like diabetes, and in my mother's case, breast cancer, there is an understanding of the condition and a well documented treatment protocol. For my "functional dyspepsia" (as they ultimately called it), nobody could tell me what might be wrong. And nobody seemed to care. For the issues my father had, nobody could tell him what was wrong. And nobody seemed to care. So laugh all you want about alternative methods/treatments. But until the Western medical community figures out what the hell they're doing, you're gong to find a lot of people decrying the benefits of homeopathy and talking about how much better they feel. Just my 5 cents.

Stop and think about what you're saying. Science based medicine has not presented you with an answer you like. That doesn't improve the odds that a particular form of quackery is effective for you.

With all due respect, you're making a big mistake by refusing to acknowledge the variety of human experiences. People don't come in a one size fits all box. I come from a family with scientists. My father, who passed away three years ago, was a nuclear chemist on a team of scientists that has discovered the latest four super-heavy elements on the periodic table. 113, 114, 115 and 116. If that's not science, I'm not sure what is. Nothing pained me more than the years we spent trying to get a diagnosis for him. Nothing pained me more than when they carelessly decided to double his doses of certain medications and he experienced side effects. They never acknowledged that maybe the manner in which they initiated these additional doses wasn't right. Nothing pained my father more than trying to understand what was wrong with him as his cognitive faculties slipped away. And he tried an alternative therapy that sounded like a lot of bunk to me, but the meds they used weren't helping. And nobody seemed to care. A lot of what I have been trying to say is that there are improvements needed in the Western medicine community. Kinder, more attentive, really working with the patient. Admitting that maybe they don't know, but they'll still try to do whatever they can. What do you think it says when people who are medically trained, or have a scientific background, are turning to hacks and quacks? How do you account for that? Why do you think that might be? Hmmmm, shall we ponder?

There are some good doctors out there. I've seen them and I am grateful for them. But one shouldn't have to go to 5-6 doctors to find a good one. I work for the government and am always told, "You have great benefits!" Yes, I do. I'm very fortunate. But if having to find a good doctor is like searching for a needle in a haystack, then there is a problem. You said it right there, friend-- they often have a God complex. But you brushed it off as a hazard of the profession. You know what? In this day and age, that's not acceptable. This in a new era. While an older generation of people may still put the faith of God in anything their doctor says and never question him/her, there is a new generation of people who realize that we don't have to go to medical school to understand the needs of our own bodies. Who understand that we have to be our own advocates in a health care setting, because if we don't, many doctors won't do anything. This is an era where people research things on the internet and bring it in to their doctors. If doctors cannot learn to function in this new era with compassion and understanding, and learn to DROP THE GOD COMPLEX, then you're going to continue to see a proliferation of hacks and quacks and con men/women.

It's as simple as that-- if people were satisfied with the care they're receiving, THESE HACKS AND QUACKS WOULD NOT BE IN EXISTENCE. Can you blame someone who has medical needs, is in pain, and is treated poorly by their doctor for deciding to see a hack because at least that hack treats them like a human being?

ChicagoGranny wrote:

archangle wrote:As for "conventional" (i.e. science based) medicine "working," you're making a big mistake here. Any competent science based doctor will admit that there are cases where the doctor won't find what's wrong with their patient. They know that their diagnosis and treatment techniques aren't 100%. They know there are side effects.

The good doctors admit that they don't always know what's wrong or have a good fix. Unfortunately, far too many of them have God complexes and are often wrong, but never uncertain.

As for the good attention from the homeopath, plenty of con men, true believers in dangerous quackery, or incompetent "western" doctors are very good at positive relationships with their victims/patients. Some very technically competent doctors are complete jerks in their dealings with patients, but they do a lot of good for their patients.

Stop and think about what you're saying. Science based medicine has not presented you with an answer you like. That doesn't improve the odds that a particular form of quackery is effective for you.

Thank you for posting that Archangle. The constant attacks (by a minority) in this forum on science-based medicine are both silly and tiring. Do they come from people who just like to see their bitching typed out? Or are these people really that ignorant of what science-based medicine is doing for people every day?

Every post that uses "Big Pharma" as a pejorative, I try to totally ignore.

As for just one example, I am old enough to have many friends who are living and thriving today only because "Big Pharma" spent huge amounts of money to research and develop novel chemotherapy treatments for cancer.

You are clearly a kind and well meaning woman, ChicagoGranny. May your doctors continue to provide you and your friends with the answers and medications they all need. May they have only good, productive experiences with their doctors. I'm pretty sure that's what we all want. But we're looking through very different lenses. There is more diversity in this world than there ever has been. And that's going to produce some opinions and "bitching" that may seem offensive to you. That's okay though. You are absolutely entitled to your opinion. Keep fighting for what you believe in.

corvallisgrace75 wrote:You are clearly a kind and well meaning woman, ChicagoGranny. May your doctors continue to provide you and your friends with the answers and medications they all need. May they have only good, productive experiences with their doctors .... That's okay though. You are absolutely entitled to your opinion. Keep fighting for what you believe in.

Don't try to pander to me. Get out of your usual abode.