Z1 Auto, how do you like it?

levman wrote:

TangledHose wrote: ... the "Darth Vader" noise issue with these little machines is a different animal altogether. The issue is the miniature turbine spinning at faster speeds than a big machine, and then the small air outlet size which requires an adapter at the machine end to bring the opening up to a normal diameter for the hose ...

You might think I am being a bit overly dramatic here, and some users just don't have an issue with the noise, but if you read through various posts on different forums, and here on this forum as well, about this issue you'll find a considerable number of complaints from users since the Z1 first came out last year ...

What TangledHose describes is exactly my experience with the Transcend. As long as I fall asleep quickly while the ramp feature still has it at a lower (quieter) pressure, and don't wake up in the middle of the night (ha!) the noise is tolerable. The issue isn't the machine itself, its what happens as the air is rattling down the hose. I'm glad to hear that HDM is trying to address it, because Transcend doesn't seem to be.

I have a Transcend EZEX and I have the same experience as levman with the noise. The noise is right in your face. I found a way to reduce that noise to almost the same level as my PRS1. I made myself a little "muffler" using the same principle as an automobile muffler with a 4 oz cosmetic jar and some CPAP couplings. Maybe it will work with the Z1.

If I can figure out how to attach a picture I would.

I recently did the trade-up program with HDM on the Z1.....traded up to the Auto model. I had finally gotten to the point that breathing on the original Z1 was comfortable using the Z-breathe 3 setting. I discovered that with enough time on it, the machine would indeed sorta synch up with my breathing pattern. The problem I first had was right at the point that I was ending my inhale and beginning to exhale the machine was lagging behind my natural breathing rythim and I would get a pronounced spike in pressure just as I began to exhale that would push my ffm mask out and was somewhat uncomfortable. But after sticking with it I found that by slowing my own breathing and delaying the transition from inhale to exhale by a second the machine would sorta sync up with my breathing and once this occurred then I could resume my own personal breathing cycle and it would continue to match up. It only takes me about maybe six breaths or so to get the exhale relief to match my breathing pattern, and then it is actually quite comfortable to breath on.......I'd say something like 90% of the comfort of my ResMed A10, but it did take a few nights to get to this point. Now I am quite comfortable, and confident in the machine for travel use, the only issue left is the noise.

When I got the Z1 Auto I had a very similar experience in terms of the breathing and getting the machine to sync to my breathing pattern, but it is much easier to get it to work on the Z1 Auto...............I would have to now agree with Bill-e that the Auto machine is even more comfortable to breath with than the standard Z1. I still play that little game when I first mask up to get the pressure relief to sync up with my breathing, maybe takes about six breaths to accomplish, but after that sync period I find that it is very comfortable to breath with now.

As far as the noise complaint is concerned I recently say a forum post on the HDM support portal, posted by Wendy Frazer (an employee) concerning the breathing noise issue.........apparently there is some sort of hardware adapter or baffle or something in the works.....here is the quote from her: "The solution that we are working on is an accessory that would help with the wind noise in the hose. We hope to get it into production in April.". So hopefully they will have a silencer kind of thing for those of us that are experiencing a lot of what I call the Darth Vader effect. Once this comes out the machine should be my go to travel device.

In the mean time just as an experiment I purchased the F&P HC150 humidifier and hooked the Z1 Auto to the humidifier to see if that scenario worked to reduce the breathing noise, and sure enough it cut the noise down by about 50% or more and I am now sleeping just as well with the Z1 Auto as I do with my ResMed Airsense. Of course I won't be lugging the humidifier with me when I travel as that would defeat the purpose of having a really small travel xpap device, but sleeping at home this way is getting me more accustomed to the Z1 Auto and getting me over the hump as far as using it on the road.

I just hope the attachment that HDM is working on to silence the breathing noise on the Z1 is small enough that it doesn't add to the bulk of the device for packing and traveling.............we will see.

I am attaching the Usage report for the last four nights from the Z1 Auto Nitelog App just to show the last four nights of use with 8 hours or more per night.

Hi TangledHose:

If the humidifier is reducing the noise then laying it on a mouse pad would help. I know that this is strange, but the rubber of the pad absorbs the sound. If you try it will you advise us of the results? I am also looking forward to your update on the fix they are working on.

Thanks

I am looking at the Z1 and the Transcend auto for travel. I would appreciate any help in making my decision as to which to buy. Thanks

aterrycalif wrote:I am looking at the Z1 and the Transcend auto for travel. I would appreciate any help in making my decision as to which to buy. Thanks

I currently have both a Transcend Auto and the Z1 Auto, don't ask me why! Anyway they are very similar units in the fact that to get them that small they have little turbines that spin faster than your home machine in order to produce the standard required therapy range of 4cm to 20cm of a normal cpap machine. The draw back is that they are noisier to use than your home machine, it seems to be the trade-off to get them so small.

For some reason right off the bat I had better luck breathing comfortably on the Transcend and didn't seem to get as much of the breathing noise from the Transcend, so on my motorcycle trips with the Transcend I fell asleep with no big trouble, maybe a few minutes more of sleep latency before I was able to fall asleep, but not a lot. I do wear the little yellow 3M foam ear plugs and that seems to help with the noise to a small degree, but with these machines most of the noise is not the machine itself but the turbulent, higher velocity air noise in the hose that gets transmitted to your mask, in my case I wear a FFM (Simplus) so I seem to get a lot of this breathing noise transmitted right to my frontal skull area. I have tried taking the ear plugs out and it didn't really make much difference because this resonance is not really coming in from my ears believe it or not.

The drawback in my mind to the Transcend is two-fold, one is the shape (we call it "Armadillo on the Half Shell") it was originally designed to be worn on the head with a pad and straps in order to use their proprietary mask with a HME for humidification. I don't know anyone that wants to wear a cpap on the top of their head and the curved shape makes the Transcend take up just a little more packing space than the Z1. The second draw back on the Transcend is the fact that to make any therapy setting changes you have to connect the powered Transcend to your computer via usb and use their software to make any changes or adjustments to therapy pressure, or any ramp setting you may want to use. This makes the device a little more difficult to set up, but once you have all the settings dialed in you should be ok on the road. It's just that I don't carry a laptop with me on a motorcycle trip, so if I felt like I wanted to change any pressure settings on the road I can't do it directly from the machine.

Picture of device on head.......disclosure: it is not a picture of me!!!



In contrast the Z1 and Z1 Auto is designed with controls on the device itself that allow you full control of all the therapy settings right from the machine, very nice feature. For some reason it did take me longer to get comfortable with the Z1 and the Z1 Auto as far as getting used to the breathing comfort. The Z1s have three pressure relief settings called Z-Breathe 1,2, and 3.......they attempt to relieve the spikes in pressure when you either inhale or exhale. I had a hard time with the Z1s right at first because when I transitioned from inhale to exhale there was a brief spike in pressure, but I have later learned to slow my breathing and after a few breath cycles the relief function finally catches up to your breathing pattern and gets in sync, after that you can breath normally with no problem, but this did take some getting used to at first, so be sure and try the unit at home for a few nights before you take it on a trip so you can get accustomed to the idiosyncrasies of breathing on it. Now that I am used to it, and I more fully understand the issue with getting it to sync up to my breathing, I can now breath on it just fine and it is comfortable......I would say they have made a few adjustments to the new Z1 Auto because I found it easier and more comfortable, but you still have to spend a few breaths when you first put it on to get the thing to sync to your breathing, and it does speed things along if you slow your breathing down a little bit and take a little delay from inhale to exhale, once it smooths out then no problem breathing as normal.

For some reason I have more of the Darth Vader breathing noise coming from the Z1 than I do from the Transcend although they both have it to some degree. It is my understanding that HDM is currently working on a noise suppression accessory for the Z1 that will go into production in April, so I hope this helps with the breathing noise issue and I sure hope it doesn't add much to the "packability" of the little Z1!

Price on the Z1 Auto is ridiculously high at something around $875, so from a price standpoint I think it's a ripoff, no other way to state that. But it's a small market and they do have R&D costs to cover, but man the price hurts!! The Transcend is less, but also a bit on the pricey side of things in the cpap world.

All in all I like the Z1 better for packing space, and having the therapy controls on the machine itself, on the data reporting side the Z1 Auto has an iOS App called Nitelog that communicates with the device via Bluetooth which is just OK.......no connection problems, but the data is a bit lacking and it does report your AHI number, but with no breakdown as to what the number is made up of.......Obstructive, Central, or Hypopnea. There is also data tracking software for the PC, but at the present time the data is limited on the PC software to hours of use and leak information, so pretty lacking there.

The Transcend has PC software for tracking data that does show AHI with a breakdown of Apnea and Hypopnea...............obviously no Central reporting on these machines.

Pesser wrote:Hi TangledHose:

If the humidifier is reducing the noise then laying it on a mouse pad would help. I know that this is strange, but the rubber of the pad absorbs the sound. If you try it will you advise us of the results? I am also looking forward to your update on the fix they are working on.

Thanks

Pesser,

I tried the mouse pad last night, a nice soft one, had the Z1 below my bed in an open drawer in bedside table resting on mouse pad, made no difference in the perceived breathing noise level. I have even had the machine rest on the memory foam mattress and again no difference. I am getting more, and more used to the noise, so eventually it may not be such a big issue, but I do know that it does add to my sleep latency, and if I wake up during the night, which I usually do, it makes it more difficult to get back to sleep. So, I sure hope that the noise suppressor accessory that HDM is currently working on is a good fix and isn't too bulky that it takes up a lot of packing space!!

Bottom line on these miniature pap devices, the more you use them the better -- you tend to get used to the trade-offs over time.

TangledHose wrote:

Pesser wrote:Hi TangledHose:

If the humidifier is reducing the noise then laying it on a mouse pad would help. I know that this is strange, but the rubber of the pad absorbs the sound. If you try it will you advise us of the results? I am also looking forward to your update on the fix they are working on.

Thanks

Pesser,

I tried the mouse pad last night, a nice soft one, had the Z1 below my bed in an open drawer in bedside table resting on mouse pad, made no difference in the perceived breathing noise level. I have even had the machine rest on the memory foam mattress and again no difference. I am getting more, and more used to the noise, so eventually it may not be such a big issue, but I do know that it does add to my sleep latency, and if I wake up during the night, which I usually do, it makes it more difficult to get back to sleep. So, I sure hope that the noise suppressor accessory that HDM is currently working on is a good fix and isn't too bulky that it takes up a lot of packing space!!

Bottom line on these miniature pap devices, the more you use them the better -- you tend to get used to the trade-offs over time.

Thanks for the report. Your efforts are helping a lot of people. This thread is getting more and more hits; and for good reason. I appreciate your efforts and insights.

Pesser,

Thanks for the nice comment

I think people should just be aware that the small machines do involve a trade-off for their size. I used the first Transcend straight cpap machine a couple years ago on a ten-day long motorcycle trip and it worked ok for me, but the first couple nights did cut into the quantity and quality of my sleep because of the increased noise and having to get used to the different feel of breathing on the little machines. As the trip went on I got more and more used to the machine and got more and more sleep every night as a result (or it may have been more rum cocktails, hard to say). I had little choice on my first trip cause it was either get used to the machine, or don't use cpap at all on the road, and I didn't like the second choice.

So after this first ten day trip I was used to the differences between using a small travel machine verses using a standard cpap machine. I had several more successful trips using the Transcend cpap and never gave it a second thought when traveling with it from then on. Then the next year along came the first Z1 cpap and I liked the idea of controls on the machine, little smaller size, and the HME for some degree of humidity. When the first Z1 came out it only had Z-Breathe setting one and two with no option to turn it off and just do vanilla cpap. I was surprised when I first tried it, I just could not get comfortable with either of the two Z-Breathe settings and I must admit I didn't force myself to stick with it and I ended up putting it in the closet because I had the Transcend to fall back on.

Eventually in early 2014 (I think) HDM announced that they had developed a third Z-Breathe setting that was more appropriate for people with more lung capacity and would be more comfortable to breathe on for such individuals. Well I didn't bother doing the download for several months and my computer at the time didn't have the version of Windows Framework that the software from HDM required. So at some point later in the year with a new computer I downloaded and installed the new firmware with the third Z-Breathe option. As a side note, with the proper computer and Windows version the Z1 update went quite smoothly. I tried the new setting one night at home and ended up quitting after about two hours and went back to my home machine. I decided at some point I'd just sell it on Craigslist or some forum like this.

After hearing others that were able to successfully use the Z1 like Bill-e, I decided to give it another chance and this time I was determined to stick with it even if it meant a couple rough nights. Well, using the 3rd setting I was finally able to get over the hump as far as adjusting to the breathing difference and I must admit that after a couple nights I did get rather comfortable breathing with the Z1. At that point my only nagging issue was the noise difference with the Z1, so I became more enthused about the machine when Bill-e mentioned that he had heard there was a noise fix in the works. He also indicated that he thought the new Auto machine was even better to breathe on, so when I saw that they were doing the Auto Machine upgrade program I decided to give it a go.

After now using the Z1 Auto for the last five nights I will say I agree with Bill-e that the Auto is even more comfortable breathing wise after the short adjustment to allow the Z-Breathe system to "Sync up" with your individual breathing pattern. I would say I am getting very close to having the same quality of sleep now that I do using my ResMed Autosense machine, maybe 90% as good as the ResMed and that's certainly good enough to have confidence to go on my next road trip using the Z1 Auto. And I am surprised that I am even getting more used to the breathing noise, I am not to the point that it is just "white noise" to me yet, but it is far less bothersome after a few nights......it just reinforces the idea that the more you use either the Z1 or the Transcend the more you'll get used to them to the point that it's no big deal to venture out on a trip with just the little macine for your travel xpap needs.

I will still be very interested to see what HDM a comes up with on this noise suppressor accessory, and if I hear any developments on that front I'll be sure to report on it.

I'm glad I wassn't proved a liar. Once you have the sound fix you will be sleeping like a baby

They got the Z1 Auto right. Unfortunately physics is physics and they have to correct it with a noise fix.

I also agree with HDM when they state that everyone does not have issue with the noise. I used is almost daily for a year without the fix, I like the fix but the noise never impaired my rest.

And you might also agree that there seems to be no reason that the Z1A couldn't remember your breathing pattern. While easy to overcome, it is annoying to have to wait for the Z1A to sync with you each time you use it.

You know as the night goes on our breathing pattern slows and becomes shallower. So in the middle of the night if I get up for a bathroom break when I get back to bed I notice my breathing is still a little slow because I was not totally awake, so as a result I notice that when I get back on the machine there is almost no adjustment or very little adjustment to the machine's Z-Breathe function and I can have that comfortable breathing pattern immediately instead of trying to get re-adjusted like when I first go to bed. Just an observation, but noticeable and very much easier to fall back asleep.

bill-e wrote:I'm glad I wassn't proved a liar. Once you have the sound fix you will be sleeping like a baby

They got the Z1 Auto right. Unfortunately physics is physics and they have to correct it with a noise fix.

I also agree with HDM when they state that everyone does not have issue with the noise. I used is almost daily for a year without the fix, I like the fix but the noise never impaired my rest.

I agree, and for everyone that has the noise problem there are just as many that don't have an issue, we tend to hear more from the people having an issue than from the people with no issues......the nature of the beast so to speak. I am actually hoping that I get used to the noise enough that I won't really care about the noise accessory, my ideal would be to carry as few components with me as possible since I don't have much room to spare when I pack the bike for a trip.

I am preparing for a road trip, 6 weeks of traveling and camping 'cross country. The first of several in my future. I currently run my Resmed machine off of a car battery when I camp. But I am usually camped at one site for several days to a week. I dread lugging my full size machine and two car batteries, setting up and tearing down each day. I recently learned about the travel CPaps. Wondering if they work before spending the money since my insurance has said that they don't cover the cost of travel cpap machines.

I have seen some talk about the increased noise factor. But I don't see any talk about how it may affect someone sharing your sleeping space. Currently, I have not had any complaints with my home machine, not by my husband or any of my girlfriends when on a weekend trip with them.

Do any of you find that the increased noise factor bothers anyone else in the bedroom besides yourself?