Latency or push with bipap PR760

I tested this and here’s what I’m getting. My EPAP is at 9 while IPAP at 12 with biflex at 2. When my breathing cycle is finished with the EPAP the IPAP kicks in. This gives me a small gush of air, almost too small to notice; but noticeable when awaken in the night and trying to fall back asleep. I have tried all biflex options and without any biflex; and it is always the same. Also when I take a deep breath the machine gives me slightly less than the IPAP just before I reach maximum lung capacity. I’m thinking of trying “rise time”. This is likely all part of the learning curve. Anyone have a similar experience?

there was some discussion of rise time recently:
viewtopic/t102035/Can-you-do-anything-a ... ml#p954781

palerider wrote:there was some discussion of rise time recently:
viewtopic/t102035/Can-you-do-anything-a ... ml#p954781

The odd thing is that it is not cutting off my inhalation. It is cutting off the exhalation! This is odd. And the effect is so very subtle. I'm sure that anyone on bilevel....if they pay real close attention, will feel that the EPAP switch or IPAP switch giving a very slight, subtle feeling. I have set all sp=0 so that it thinks its an APAP. The feeling is no longer there but one can still feel the transition from EPAP to IPAP even when SP=0. I didn't bank on this. Maybe using it for naps for a few months will take away the sleep anxiety. I have a mild case of GAD. It can get vicious when it comes to sleep.

Pesser wrote:

palerider wrote:there was some discussion of rise time recently:
viewtopic/t102035/Can-you-do-anything-a ... ml#p954781

The odd thing is that it is not cutting off my inhalation. It is cutting off the exhalation! This is odd. And the effect is so very subtle. I'm sure that anyone on bilevel....if they pay real close attention, will feel that the EPAP switch or IPAP switch giving a very slight, subtle feeling. I have set all sp=0 so that it thinks its an APAP. The feeling is no longer there but one can still feel the transition from EPAP to IPAP even when SP=0. I didn't bank on this. Maybe using it for naps for a few months will take away the sleep anxiety. I have a mild case of GAD. It can get vicious when it comes to sleep.

it's too bad the prs1 machines don't have ti min/max settings, that allows you to program how long the machine stays at ipap, and trigger/cycle settings which allow you to adjust how sensigive the machine is to trigging ipap and cycling back to epap.

if it's something that bothers you, you'd probably be better off if you can get your claws on a vpap auto, instead of the 760.

if sp=0, there isn't a transition between epap to ipap, unless there's something wrong with the machine.

palerider wrote:it's too bad the prs1 machines don't have ti min/max settings,

they do and that is prob what is out of wack here

Guest wrote:

palerider wrote:it's too bad the prs1 machines don't have ti min/max settings,

they do and that is prob what is out of wack here

In the PR1 system they are called "rise time". These are only functional if the biflex is off. I have the biflex on.

palerider wrote:

Pesser wrote:

palerider wrote:there was some discussion of rise time recently:
viewtopic/t102035/Can-you-do-anything-a ... ml#p954781

The odd thing is that it is not cutting off my inhalation. It is cutting off the exhalation! This is odd. And the effect is so very subtle. I'm sure that anyone on bilevel....if they pay real close attention, will feel that the EPAP switch or IPAP switch giving a very slight, subtle feeling. I have set all sp=0 so that it thinks its an APAP. The feeling is no longer there but one can still feel the transition from EPAP to IPAP even when SP=0. I didn't bank on this. Maybe using it for naps for a few months will take away the sleep anxiety. I have a mild case of GAD. It can get vicious when it comes to sleep.

it's too bad the prs1 machines don't have ti min/max settings, that allows you to program how long the machine stays at ipap, and trigger/cycle settings which allow you to adjust how sensigive the machine is to trigging ipap and cycling back to epap.

if it's something that bothers you, you'd probably be better off if you can get your claws on a vpap auto, instead of the 760.

if sp=0, there isn't a transition between epap to ipap, unless there's something wrong with the machine.

Is not your "ti min/max settings" the same as "rise time" in the PR system?

Guest wrote:

palerider wrote:it's too bad the prs1 machines don't have ti min/max settings,

they do and that is prob what is out of wack here

where? there are no settings listed in the manual I have.

where are they?

Pesser wrote:Is not your "ti min/max settings" the same as "rise time" in the PR system?

no

timin is the minimum time the machine will stay at ipap, timax is the maximum time it'll stay, default for timin is .3 seconds, default for timax is 2 seconds.

rise time, which is a completely different setting, is how long it takes to go from epap to ipap.

on yours, 0=150ms, 1=200ms, 2=300ms 4=400ms.

on mine, it's 50-900ms in 50 ms increments, (and, disabled in the vauto mode).

palerider wrote:

Pesser wrote:Is not your "ti min/max settings" the same as "rise time" in the PR system?

no

timin is the minimum time the machine will stay at ipap, timax is the maximum time it'll stay, default for timin is .3 seconds, default for timax is 2 seconds.

rise time, which is a completely different setting, is how long it takes to go from epap to ipap.

on yours, 0=150ms, 1=200ms, 2=300ms 4=400ms.

on mine, it's 50-900ms in 50 ms increments, (and, disabled in the vauto mode).

Thanks for this!

I’m testing the machine with my naps. When the PR760 is at SP=0 it is very difficult to tell if it’s my imagination that is telling me of the switch from IPAP to EPAP. It’s likely only anxiety…not sure yet. Also I fell asleep last night without any problem with 12/9! I woke up anxious just like when I started CPAP for the first time. Funny what anxiety can do to you!

I'll just have to train myself on a new breathing system. I don't think there is anything wrong with the machine! I wonder if the biflex works on CPAP. If it does....I'm safe with this as a backup and I can take my time training on the bipap settings both you and Pugsy gave me!

Pesser wrote: I’m testing the machine with my naps. When the PR760 is at SP=0 it is very difficult to tell if it’s my imagination that is telling me of the switch from IPAP to EPAP. It’s likely only anxiety…not sure yet. Also I fell asleep last night without any problem with 12/9! I woke up anxious just like when I started CPAP for the first time. Funny what anxiety can do to you!

I'll just have to train myself on a new breathing system. I don't think there is anything wrong with the machine! I wonder if the biflex works on CPAP. If it does....I'm safe with this as a backup and I can take my time training on the bipap settings both you and Pugsy gave me!

well, if your PS (not sp) is set to 0, then your ipap = epap, so there's no switch... with the modern machines, there's no switching or anything anyway, the blower just speeds up and slows down to deliver the needed pressures. now.. the blower is ALSO speeding up and slowing down to maintain pressure as you inhale and exhale... so it runs faster as you inhale, and slower as you exhale, so the pressure stays the same, when you add pressure support, it speeds up even more on inhale...

*flex will work on cpap, apap, and bipap modes, I believe (though I have no proof) that all the flexes in the modern machines are pretty much the same, but you know how phres is... they like their names, so they call it different things on the different modes (if someone has proof that the cflex+ aflex, biflex modes are different in any way but name, I'd be interestedin read it...)

palerider wrote:

Pesser wrote:Is not your "ti min/max settings" the same as "rise time" in the PR system?

no

timin is the minimum time the machine will stay at ipap, timax is the maximum time it'll stay, default for timin is .3 seconds, default for timax is 2 seconds.

rise time, which is a completely different setting, is how long it takes to go from epap to ipap.

on yours, 0=150ms, 1=200ms, 2=300ms 4=400ms.

on mine, it's 50-900ms in 50 ms increments, (and, disabled in the vauto mode).

are those not different ways to accomplish the same goal?

Pesser wrote: In the PR1 system they are called "rise time". These are only functional if the biflex is off. I have the biflex on.

using biflex changes the rise to predetermined numbas

Guest wrote:

palerider wrote:

Pesser wrote:Is not your "ti min/max settings" the same as "rise time" in the PR system?

no

timin is the minimum time the machine will stay at ipap, timax is the maximum time it'll stay, default for timin is .3 seconds, default for timax is 2 seconds.

rise time, which is a completely different setting, is how long it takes to go from epap to ipap.

on yours, 0=150ms, 1=200ms, 2=300ms 4=400ms.

on mine, it's 50-900ms in 50 ms increments, (and, disabled in the vauto mode).

are those not different ways to accomplish the same goal?

not even remotely close.

rise time is how long it takes to get up to ipap, TiMin and TiMax are how long it STAYS at ipap.

I have had a few naps with my new PR760 (I still use my PR560 at night). It very much looks like my negative impressions of the feeling of the machine is entirely my imagination. It has a slightly stronger “push” fan effect but the feeling is the same on biflex as on the aflex. The machine is very comfortable. I did what Palerider told me and many others. I set PS=0 and it feels like an APAP. Funny what anxiety will do to me! I will eventually change the settings to a Bipap mode; but only when I am ready!