Got my machine today....

Where to start....

I showed up fairly prepared I think... There were two of us for the "Class" to get our machines. Both Bi-Pap, but he got the Remstar Auto Bi-Pap and I got the Synchrony ST Bi-Pap due to my pressures.

He had time constraints so I let them do him first. He was an older gent, said he was a Horse Dr. He was not prepared at all and really didn't know what was going on.

The first issue was that his Dr. didn't write what type of mask. He said he had a full mask in his Sleep Study but he didn't have a copy of it. They told him all they could give him was a Nasal Mask unless his Dr. gave them a RX for a full face. Funny thing is that his RX said the same thing as mine did. Mask: Per Patient Comfort and Fit.

It was clear he didn't like the nasal mask. He also had a co-pay. $100 for this visit and $29 each month for the rental. He thought that was expensive, but the kind lady told him that his machine actually cost $4,400 and that it was good it started out as a rental since his co-pay would have been much more had it been a purchase....

..................

He was done, I was next... The first comment I made was about being told a newer model was available but not wanting to wait another 2 weeks for it to get there. They kind lady informed me that the machine I was getting now was used, and that if the treatment went well, the Insurance company would stop the rental and purchase a machine. When that happened, I would get a brand new model. She even said that with my insurance, I could get my Dr. to specify what brand and model I wanted as long as it worked for my pressures that were prescribed and they would get that.

The machine BTW has 2,800 hours on it.

I'm okay with that....

Next came the mask... No my RX said the same as his, but I had a copy of my sleep study with me which indicated I used a full mask. They said they didn't stock the model I used however (Respronics Comfortfull full face mask), but rather had another one instead called a Fisher & Payker Flexfit431.

I remember the Flexfit as the second mask I used in my sleep study which the Tech's kept saying was making the pressures wrong. Today I finally figured out why and what is happening.

With that mask, there are leaks around my cheek area and it causes the machine to never switch to the lower pressure when I exhale making it hard to exhale. If I hold the mask close to my face, it works fine... would be kinda hard to sleep that way though.

They said that I need to call in (after 24 hours) and tell them that my mask is not working properly and that I needed the other type. They would then "redline" it for me (I think that is some sort of special order) and I would have it in a day or two.

At this point, I really had not choices... other than to leave everything there or take the leaky mask and see what I could do with it.


...

So, when I left I immediately called the Sleep Study Lab. They are the ones that provided the fully completed form for the Dr. to approve and I asked them why I was having a hassle getting the type of mask they knew worked. They said the would contact Apria directly and call me back. A couple minutes later, they called and told me that Apria was given my full file and it clearly stated what mask I had used and why. They had left a message and would contact me after they had talked with them about the issue.

I've not heard back yet, but the day is at an end so I wouldn't expect anything until morning.

As to tonight... I've got a machine, When it has good seal it works great as far as I can tell. I will just have to figure out how to make it seal for a night
and see about replacing the mask as soon as possible.

Digtal Recorded....

Did I mention that I brought a digital recorder with me???

Yep... I brought a small handheld digital recorder with me into the session. I turned it on the minute I entered the room and turned it off when I left. I figured I might like to have a recording of what they told me so that if down the road they had not provided correct info, I could play back what they actually said. I didn't try to hide the fact I had it, but I think they thought it was some new fangled Cell phone.

In case you are wondering, In AZ, only one party in a room that is being
recorded needs to know that a recording is taking place to be legal. The person was me... so I didn't do anything illegal there...

I was given today the following:

o Respronics Synchrony ST Bi-Pap Machine (used 1280 hours)
o Fisher & Paykel HC150 Heated Humidifier (with stand)
o Fisher & Paykel HC431A Flexfit431 Full Face Mask
o New nylon bag to hold everything
o full docs on the mask, humidifier but not the machine.

I basically know how to turn on the machine, turn it off, but little else. Ramp up doesn't work in the mode it is in but if I have a good seal I don't think it matters.

No software, provided or even mentioned but I see this as a temporary machine.

Need to figure out how to read the readings though.

Overall experience...

I think the real issue is lack of communication. IF they had contacted me when they got the order and asked some very basic questions, it most likely would have been a much smoother process. The only communication was one sided and came from me (I intiated all the contacts).

The issue of the mask would have been easy to resolve ahead of time.

The fact that I knew as much as I did was apparently apparent to them.. They commented that I seem to know much more than anyone they had started new stuff with before. I let them know that I knew that pricing was high and that $4,400 for the other machine was way too high. I even gave them a link to a couple sites so they could see for themselves.

Over all, it wasn't so bad, as long as the mask is resolved quickly. If they don't I will just buy a mask and deal with it later.

I had no Co-pay and no out of pocket expense for what I got today.

wow, 27 and 20 cms? let us know how it goes, those pressures are huge, lol, good luck with it.

Too bad you don't know who the other guy was that couldn't get his full face mask. He might be able to make use of the digital recording to get what he needed.

did you sing anything? Please beware as it is my understanding that the machine they gave you, used, is the one that you will 'rent' and then purchase - really
MY dme tried that with me and I, too, was much more informed than they anticipated or wanted - and I demanded to have a new one - as I knew that whatever I had that went from rented to purchase would be the one I end up keeping - so they switched me out 2 weeks later - also, I know for a fact that the cost of your machine is not 4000 or even close.
Keep letting them know that you know - I would actually put in writing and send to them a letter like, just confirming that this machine you gave me used will be switched for a new one prior to purchase - and maybe cc your insurance? Would really hate to see you get 'hosed' on that - they will do it if they can - as you can see for the first guy who didn't get the mask he should have - good for your for advocating for yourself and good luck!

Sorry, I meant SIGN, not sing, although you can tell us if you broke out in song, too

according to the rt at my dme they cannot give you a used machine if it is a rent to own contract. dunno if that would apply to you and your insurance though.

Anonymous wrote:did you sing anything? Please beware as it is my understanding that the machine they gave you, used, is the one that you will 'rent' and then purchase - really

Yes, I did sing... er sign the papers. It clearly states what is purchased and what is rented. The parts hoses, humidifier, tubes, fitting and mask are purchased, and the machine is not only changed from what the form says, but also is clearly marked as a "1 Month Rental". There are no terms, rent to own anywhere that indicate a rent to own.

On top of that, I have a nice clear recording of the entire process where the lady clearly spelled out what was going to happen. They would have some legal issues if they tried to say what I signed was radically different from what they were telling me.

It makes perfect sense to me for them to use a Used machine to see if a patient works well with the treatment before getting to the point of selling a machine.

I know and they know I know, what the machines can be purchased for.

3 Hours of fairly comfortable Sleep

I just did about 3 hours with the setup which is a bit amazing as it took me a bit to get the mask to no leak. The mask has three inserts, we had tried the medium one before. I changed it to the small one and cinched it up pretty good and the leaks stopped enough to work okay. I found if I opened my mouth, the leaks pretty much stopped alltogether and sleeping like that is normal for me.

I decided the first "Night" to not bother trying this in the bedroom. I've got to set everything up on the night stand including power to it and I didn't want to mess with it.

Instead, I set it up next to the lazyboy in the living room where I have spent many a night attempting to get sleep sitting up.

I got the mask to the point where it was not leaking enough, turned off the TV, and leaned the chair back (couldn't do that normally) and closed my eyes. I recall being a tad ticked that I forgot the light, but I wasn't able to reach it and figured I was going to wake up again anyway.

That was 3 hours ago.

I woke up, a bit disorientad, and had a b*tch of a time getting the mask off again. The latch is not that easy to undo. It was now just before midnight which for me would be my normal bedtime.

I had a big case of cotton mouth that a drink of water fixed. I turned up the humidifier to hopefully deal with that a bit.

Decided to come and check here, and type this (I am a bit of a speed typist)... and will go back shortly, TURN OFF THE LIGHT, and go for another whirl.

I see that cpap.com has the mask that I used in the study and can see how the way it is built makes a difference. I will deal with Apria in the morning about getting one. If there is any hassle, I will buy one from cpap.com and deal with the issues later. I can get one the next business day and the cost is not that much. I've got a lot of flex spending left and can apply that to that...

RedThunder94 wrote:wow, 27 and 20 cms? let us know how it goes, those pressures are huge, lol, good luck with it.

When the mask fits and seals, I have no issues with the pressures. The Bi-pap drops down the preassure when I exhale and it is quite comfortable.

I went ahead and ordered the mask we used in the sleep study from Cpap.com just a couple minutes ago to short circuit any issues of having the correct mask within a day or so. I can submit it to into my FlexSpending plan and "get my money back" so to speak via that.

I should have it no later than Thursday which looks to be at least 2 or 3 days faster than I can get it from the DME assuming I have no hitches with them.

i use the comfortfull 2 nightly and i do have to open my mouth slightly so i can get a good seal even with my little strap fix, it puffs my cheeks up a little but i deal with since it gets rid of the leaks at the corners of my mouth that way.

Well I got about 9 hours sleep last night. Woke up 3 times that I know of, each time something to do with the mask.

Still much more than normal. Need to find out how to "read" the output of the machine to see what I am doing while I am out.

Each time I woke up, I was disoriented which is a sign that I was actually in some pretty deep sleep rather than just at the top.

While I don't feel completely refreshed, I don't feel overly tired.

Overall, I'd say last night was a sucess dispite the mask issues.

Contacted Apria today and they have ordered the replacement Comfortfull full face mask. They said I should have it in a couple days.

I will receive the one I ordered on my own tomorrow morning.