How the Feds Made the Country Fat

Just encouraging a little healthy skepticism and common sense to the "fat is good" camp. This comes back around again every seven to ten years...

Keep in mind the author has a book to sell.

The Huffington Post had a much more critical, yet rational review of her stance check it out.

Take everything you hear with a grain of (sea) salt...

RM

Which author is that?

ETA: oh, Nina Teicholz.

So does that mean that her premise is automatically suspect?

rikmak wrote:Take everything you hear with a grain of (sea) salt...

I agree. Don't let any "side" of the argument use emotion or peer pressure to convince you of anything. The problem is how to objectively make decisions?

Based solely on my health needs I use frequent glucose monitoring, HbA1c, apoB and LDL-P to guide my dietary choices. I tend to trust the information sources that measurably make my health better, and distrust the sources that steer me in the wrong direction. Your health needs are probably different than mine. You can decide for yourself what to measure.

I have not decided yet when it comes to saturated fat. Not enough data points. It takes time to evaluate when the population size is n=1. Larger population studies have so many confounding factors and predisposed outcomes that I trust almost none of them.

The Huffington Post and Wall Street Journal articles both had excellent emotional narrative and neither presented much objective information. I find that a lot. Web sites use ridiculous amounts of peer pressure to achieve the same. Lots of emotional drum beating and virtually nothing to help make objective decisions. Sorry to say that contributions like yours come across as more of the same.

Sleep Wrangler and others.

As I said, I have spent 35+ years in the food ingredient industry. 15 selling flavors.

That being said, I also spent nearly 5 years selling fish oil for the company that was the first company to get direct GRAS approval for the use of fish oil in foods.

Long story short, there is a big difference between direct approval and self-affirmed approval. The self-affirmed people didn't come along until I was no longer involved. Direct approval is extremely complicated. It's almost like getting a drug approved for use.

Needless to say, as Director of Sales and Marketing for North America for what was then called OmegaPure, I learned a lot about omega 3s, 6s and 9s. Also the difference between long chain and short chain omega 3s and the difference between the value of EPAs and DHAs.

I guess, according to what I'm reading here, most of you would consider fish oil as a processed oil. You crush the fish. Primarily use centrifuges to get the oil, but then you must deodorize the stuff. No matter what the source of omega 3s (flax, various nuts, chia seeds, fish, algae, etc.) deodorization is a must. If you don't do it, it's going to smell and taste like dead fish. Additionally, you have to keep it refrigerated, or frozen, to keep it from oxidizing.

For a laugh (and a true story). I was at a trade show. A guy from Canada came up to me and told me that his company sold omega 3 oils, but that they'd never be able to sell it in the US. When I asked him why, he told me that they got their oil from BABY SEALS. (face palm)

Dogjudge wrote:Needless to say, as Director of Sales and Marketing for North America for what was then called OmegaPure, I learned a lot about omega 3s, 6s and 9s. Also the difference between long chain and short chain omega 3s and the difference between the value of EPAs and DHAs.

I'd like to read about your experience or link to a reference you trust. Is IFOS more than just a marketing program?

I take 750 mg EPA, 250 mg DHA, and 60 mg other Omega-3 because my cardiologist recommended a supplement where the combined total is > 1000 mg per day. I've also recently added a lot of cold water wild caught white fleshed fish and salmon to my food stores.

Least amount of processing is better but my personal comfort zone is to avoid high temperatures, added chemicals, and long term refrigeration. My fish softgel lists the following: purified oil, gelatine, glycerine, water, and natural mixed tocopherols. As my diet evolves I may get rid of the supplement. Need more data points wrt apoB / LDL-P before making a change. Hopefully the benefits of these supplements are real but I suspect eating good fatty fish is better.

I'd like to read about your experience or link to a reference you trust. Is IFOS more than just a marketing program?

I take 750 mg EPA, 250 mg DHA, and 60 mg other Omega-3 because my cardiologist recommended a supplement where the combined total is > 1000 mg per day. I've also recently added a lot of cold water wild caught white fleshed fish and salmon to my food stores.

Least amount of processing is better but my personal comfort zone is to avoid high temperatures, added chemicals, and long term refrigeration. My fish softgel lists the following: purified oil, gelatine, glycerine, water, and natural mixed tocopherols. As my diet evolves I may get rid of the supplement. Need more data points wrt apoB / LDL-P before making a change. Hopefully the benefits of these supplements are real but I suspect eating good fatty fish is better.
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I wasn't familiar with IFOS until you mentioned it. I'm familiar with CRODA for a variety of reasons. It is a good company. I can only say that since it appears that Croda is the only company that has been certified so far, and that there is no other company doing this certification, I'd be skeptical.

Omega 3s are used for heart issues because it is a blood thinner. I can't remember which component is for blood thinning or if it's combined. I remember that DHA is best for brain development in children and EPA is for adults. The EPA/DHA ratio came about because the primary source for fish oil supplements was salmon oil and that's what it contained. Keep in mind also, as with anything that's grown, that those ratios change. Good year vs. bad year sort of thing.

Cold water, oily fish is what you're looking for. Can't comment on white fleshed fish, but my guess is that it's not the right species.

Purified oil - I'm assuming that they're talking about fish oil that they've treated with things to keep it from oxidizing. Gelatine - is essentially gelatin (think Jello). Have no idea why they'd put that into fish oil capsules. Glycerine - It's a solvent that also imparts a sweet taste. Natural mixed tocopherols (aka Vitamin E) - This is a natural anti-oxidant to keep the oil from turning into dead fish smell and taste. That ingredient list is pretty much standard.

There's always the argument about using supplements. For me, I don't see a difference, depending on what you're trying to get. My area of the country doesn't allow you to get good fresh fish, even salmon. You can get it some times, but you can't get it always.

One thing to keep in mind. Fish oil is a blood thinner. Most doctors and dentists will tell you to quit taking it if you're going to have any sort of surgery.

Dogjudge wrote:I'd like to read about your experience or link to a reference you trust. Is IFOS more than just a marketing program?

quoting, instead of just copying, the message you're replying to is *easy* and makes it much clearer what you're saying, and what you're responding to...

just sayin.

Pale Rider,

Thanks.

I'm still extremely new here.

Dogjudge wrote:Pale Rider,

Thanks.

I'm still extremely new here.

a lot of people seem to miss the big orange 'QUOTE' button up by the post tittle, perhaps transfixed by the larger "POST REPLY" button under the post

Kind of surprised this thread keeps going on... figured it would have died by now.

Krelvin wrote:Kind of surprised this thread keeps going on... figured it would have died by now.

this kind goes on for ages, short on facts, long on speculation, lots of opportunities for name calling...

pass the popcorn, will ya?

As I said, I have spent 35+ years in the food ingredient industry. 15 selling flavors.

Speaking of popcorn . . .

It would be interesting to hear, Dogjudge, how those flavors are made and how they are used? I think most people have no clue what they are eating instead of real food. There's more to the story of our fat, sick nation that federal policies. I bet you have some interesting stories to tell.

Janknitz wrote:

As I said, I have spent 35+ years in the food ingredient industry. 15 selling flavors.

Speaking of popcorn . . .

I've got bags of popcorn in the pantry... all different kinds, red, blue, yellow, black, white.

Dogjudge wrote:extremely new

That's an extremely new one on me.

Most people don't know much about the food industry at all.

Flavors.

The biggest users of flavors are the beverage companies.
Pharmaceutical and supplement companies use what are known as masking flavors. Lots of things out there, that are good for you, that you'd never take if it wasn't for flavors.
To give products a flavor boost. Strawberries and strawberry juice are significantly cheaper to use than natural strawberry flavors (figure at least $15.00/lb). That being said, if you're making yogurt, you can only get so much strawberries and strawberry juice into something before it doesn't work any more.
Functionality. Can't put much strawberry juice into cake mixes. Additionally, you have things where the pH, or other such things, simply preclude you being able to use juices, etc. (As an aside to functionality. One of my favorite projects was a bacon flavor for a kosher bacon <turkey>.)
Variations on things such as smoke flavors.

As opposed to some of the comments I saw here, which is why I jumped in, the industry is extremely controlled by government regulations. Extremely. Example. If you want to make pure vanilla extract, you have to use 13.1 (I think, it's been a while) lbs. of vanilla beans to a gallon (I think) of 30% alcohol. There are no exceptions, if you are following the law.

Nomenclature is limited to four categories. Natural (You can only used chemicals that are derived from the named flavor). WONFs, or With Other Natural Flavors (You can only use natural ingredients. So you might add a mint oil at 0.1% to compound a blueberry flavor and add a needed note.) Artificial and Natural & Artificial are the last two.

In a natural strawberry flavor, you might have 200 ingredients. Why? Well, do you want a "green strawberry", a "ripe strawberry", a "cooked strawberry", a "candy strawberry", etc.

I've always found natural flavors being used in junk food rather ridiculous.

And don't get me started on the "all natural" folks. I buy a lot of things that are organic, etc., but also know what all the PR is and what reality is.