How to stop mouth opening, to use nasal pillows effectively?

Thanks for all the replies, sorry for writing so many posts, I should have tried to include the quotes and my remarks into one single post probably?
In the end, here is a recap on the problem of air coming out of my mouth when trying to use a nasal pillows mask:
I normally breathe thru my nose in the daytime, the problem is with the increased pressure of CPAP at night and the fact that when falling asleep, muscles relax out of control.
The muscles in the back relax first when I start to doze off, so then I try to stop the outbound air by pressing my lips, and the effort and conscious control prevent me from falling asleep...
I do use a chin strap, but unfortunately, keeping my jaws tight does not stop air coming out through relaxed lips

Did I miss what mask type you use and your pressure?

4betterO2 wrote:

archangle wrote: If you can keep your jaw closed, try to keep your tongue pressed against the roof of your mouth and seal off the pressure at the back of your mouth.

Sigh... this only works when awake. As I mentioned in my OP, the problem is when falling asleep and muscles relax out of control

Some people have reported eventual success with this technique by doing it consciously before they go to sleep. I haven't been able to make it work myself.

However, even if you use a chin strap, it helps to do this to keep air out of your mouth.

I found it easier to overcome the shortcomings of a FFM than it was for me to prevent throat leaks. And I tried it all - chin straps, tongue training, tape, mouth pieces, etc. Just couldn't do it. At least with a full face mask the therapy is maintained.

4betterO2 wrote:

jencat824 wrote:I had a very, very bad mouth breathing problem. I cured it when I got braces (the kind that are trays you wear - Invisalign).

Interesting - can you elaborate, how does that work?

To elaborate, the braces are fitted trays, upper & lower. Their purpose is to move my teeth. The side effect, a good one for me, is that they cause me to keep my mouth closed since they keep my mouth in a natural, closed position. I also no longer grind my teeth in my sleep either. That is why I suggested you might try a boil-n-bite tray you can get at the drugstore in the dental section.

I don't know if this will work for you, or if the boil-n-bite will have the same effect, but its worth a try (and is inexpensive at around $20). The objective is to keep the mouth closed. Having something in my mouth to bite on accomplished that for me. Let me know if you try it and how it works for you.

Jen

englandsf wrote:Did I miss what mask type you use and your pressure?

as I mentioned, I tried the Nuance and the Opus, but as yet I can't use them really, they cause breaks in my compliance. So I use a FFM in the meantime normally, while I'm working on solving the nasal pillows breathing issues. The pressure varies and is not high enough to cause problems, my problems have to do with controlling the necessary tongue muscles while relaxing in sleep.

4betterO2 wrote:I would really like to switch to nasal pillows, but haven't found out how to mitigate the mouth-breathing problem when I fall asleep and muscles relax.
Relaxing and opening the mouth causes loss of PAP pressure, so it is not compatible with using nasal pillows.
I remember reading in other posts that some people use tape. Which tape can stay in place for better than 4 hours, and not pull the skin out of shape during removal? Is there any other solution besides taping?

Although taping gave me the best results, I found it too much of a hassle with my mustache and beard. Instead, I found that an elastic/cotton headband like this one works almost as good as taping in virtually eliminating my mouth breathing and dry mouth, without the discomfort or claustrophobia:



Although intended as a sweatband for the forehead, I slide it down over my mouth in front and elevated a little upward in back, then hold it in place with my old Ruby chinstrap to make sure it doesn't slip down during the night. Another advantage over taping is that I can easily slip it down slightly to talk or take a sip of water, then slide it back into place. It's just snug enough to keep my lips from sliding open while I sleep, leaves no marks, etc.

They are cheap on Amazon, and I rotate a few of them in different colors with the laundry.

Good luck!

Best wishes, Nate

hello

Sorry but i don't understand the word "tape" ? i don't understand it is not the same as chin trap ? (sorry for my english but can you explain this or paste a picture please ?
I have a leak > 25l/min < 30 min : i don't if there is mouth leak but i supposed since i have a bit snoring.
Perhaps link when i 'm lying back.

Thanks

chris677 wrote:Sorry but i don't understand the word "tape" ? i don't understand it is not the same as chin trap ? (sorry for my english but can you explain this or paste a picture please ?

ruban adhésif, bandage

http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=htt ... =0&ndsp=18

chris677 wrote:hello

Sorry but i don't understand the word "tape" ?

sparadrap

He means taping in that some people who lose air through their mouth overnight use special 'tape' - an inch or so - on their lips to keep the air in (and going down to their airway). Do a forum search on 'taping' or tape and you'll see what it's all about. There is tape which won't hurt when you take it off in the morning.

I, too, am a mouth breather. I first got a chinstrap and it only helped so much. I had to experiment with different tightnesses and angles....it also slipped on my hair. I tried FFMs and never could find one that fit comfortably and did not leak.

Four years into it, and my current set up is an Activa LT nasal mask, and I use a PapCap, but I do not use the chinstrap that comes with it, I substitute another one, which has wider fabric at the chin, so it kind of cups my chin. It makes it easier to stay in place and to adjust the angle of it. And I can pull part of the fabric over my lips.

https://www.cpap.com/productpage/purslee ... otton.html

https://www.cpap.com/productpage/respiro ... white.html


I have found that keeping the jaw up and the lips closed can be addressed separately, and for me, the jaw staying up seems to be my biggest issue with leaks. I use one, small, piece of tape diagonnally across my closed lips, and then I put on the cap/chinstrap and then the mask. Using the piece of tape seems to allow me to have the chinstrap looser. It is actually pretty comfortable and my leak rate is generally quite good.

http://www.nexcare.com/wps/portal/3M/en ... 326&rt=rud

For me, the answer has not been a FFM, and I have never been able to train myself to keep my mouth closed enough without any help, although I wish I could and may keep trying.

The moral of the story is that there are many different tweaks and options one can try. Keep reading and posting here and keep trying things.

_________________
Mask: Mirage Activa™ LT Nasal CPAP Mask with Headgear
Humidifier: HumidAire H4i™ Heated Humidifier
Additional Comments: Resmed S8 VPAP ST Bilevel Machine

jilliansue wrote: https://www.cpap.com/productpage/purslee ... otton.html
https://www.cpap.com/productpage/respiro ... white.html
http://www.nexcare.com/wps/portal/3M/en ... 326&rt=rud

all your links are broken.

Thanks to all for explanation or traduction ! Merci !

why not to try this hat ) ( i lol only on half since a similar hat more simply can hold the jaw up )



I don't know if i had to correct leak (nb : since sunday i have turn the min pressure from 4 to 8 , seems it be in good ways for aih but will see before do change )

Here is my leak = fuites




Leaks seems to be > 25 when pressure > 10 or 11 : a bit snoring too or is this simply mouth leak that make noise ?
indices de ronflement = snore




But not always :



and before my pressure min change (i didn't see change in leak (up or down) with pressure change)



I constat my leak is on the first half of night, when the pressure is > 10 or 11 but not sure this is perhaps because i'm lying back and the snoring a bit.I have no awake.

what i would do for step :
- tennis ball on back t shirt to not lying back
- max pressure of 10 or 11 and try
- chin strap
- do nothing

is my leak to solve in the future or is acceptable ?

Merci !

Chris, how about posting to your original thread so we can compare your graphs? viewtopic.php?f=1&t=100450&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&start=30
Your leaks are a little high, but how do you feel since you raised your min pressure? Are you sleeping better? What's is your AHI doing now?