Comparing insomnia programs

49er wrote:

echo wrote:In addition to what kteague mentioned, I'd also look into getting a cortisol saliva test. High cortisol at night can cause sleep problems.

Hi Echo,

I would be very skeptical of these types of test as many seem like they are a ripoff. My reasoning for saying that many of the companies that administer these tests sell the supplements that allegedly relieve the problem.

49er

In my experience the tests have been spot on (correlated well with symptoms). There are a couple of good labs. I can't say for the rest. The ideal test is one that measures cortisol 4 to 6 times throughout the day.

The whole thing saved my life, really (finding out about and treating adrenal fatigue and hypothyroidism).

echo wrote:

49er wrote:

echo wrote:In addition to what kteague mentioned, I'd also look into getting a cortisol saliva test. High cortisol at night can cause sleep problems.

Hi Echo,

I would be very skeptical of these types of test as many seem like they are a ripoff. My reasoning for saying that many of the companies that administer these tests sell the supplements that allegedly relieve the problem.

49er

In my experience the tests have been spot on (correlated well with symptoms). There are a couple of good labs. I can't say for the rest. The ideal test is one that measures cortisol 4 to 6 times throughout the day.

The whole thing saved my life, really (finding out about and treating adrenal fatigue and hypothyroidism).

So which labs are these and how would I look into such testing? I have done some of the things Jacob Teitelbaum recommends in his books on CFS. I don't have CFS, but it has been helpful.

fmj13,

At the risk of sounding like I am badgering you which isn't my intention, has your OSA treatment been deemed as completely optimal? I am just concerned you may be needlessly chasing band-aid solutions if the prime issues haven't been addressed.

Of course, some of them don't hurt such as improving your diet or sleep hygiene practices which you mentioned you mostly do. But in other situations, you could be going down endless trails that lead to nowhere if your treatment is still suboptimal.

Don't have any advice on finding labs to test cortisol function but as I mentioned previously, if they are selling the supplements in addition to doing the test, I would run away as fast as you can.

Best of luck.

49er

49er wrote:fmj13,

At the risk of sounding like I am badgering you which isn't my intention, has your OSA treatment been deemed as completely optimal? r

By me, no. Things have gotten somewhat better - it used to be that I would be tired and nap most of the weekend every weekend. I have essentially 2 medical staffs I work with as my insurance company requires me to go the HMO one in addition to the PPO one. The HMO doctor thinks that the weekend nap problem is psychological! The switch from a cpap to a bipap and starting to use a chin strap have both been helpful, but I want things to be even better. The only parts of sleep hygiene that I don't always follow is sometimes I will eat (and what I eat) before I go to bed. That's not every night though. Otherwise, I follow all the basics. I don't drink alcohol ever, rarely drink caffeine, only use my bedroom for sleep or sex, keep it dark, etc.

fmj13 wrote:

49er wrote:fmj13,

At the risk of sounding like I am badgering you which isn't my intention, has your OSA treatment been deemed as completely optimal? r

By me, no. Things have gotten somewhat better - it used to be that I would be tired and nap most of the weekend every weekend. I have essentially 2 medical staffs I work with as my insurance company requires me to go the HMO one in addition to the PPO one. The HMO doctor thinks that the weekend nap problem is psychological! The switch from a cpap to a bipap and starting to use a chin strap have both been helpful, but I want things to be even better. The only parts of sleep hygiene that I don't always follow is sometimes I will eat (and what I eat) before I go to bed. That's not every night though. Otherwise, I follow all the basics. I don't drink alcohol ever, rarely drink caffeine, only use my bedroom for sleep or sex, keep it dark, etc.

You had mentioned being concerned about not being able to sleep through the night. Is that what you mean about wanting things to be better or are there other issues you feel haven't been addressed?

Some people can have their sleep affected if they eat something before bedtime but that isn't true of everyone. Maybe you need to do some trial and error testing to see if that is an issue?

I wish you all the luck in the world in getting this situation resolved.

49er

I agree with the others - it's important to make sure that cpap therapy is optimized. That's why I was asking if the insomnia predated pap therapy.

For cortisol saliva testing, 3 good labs are Genova Diagnostics, ZRT labs, and Sabre Sciences. You can also order through Canary Club (ZRT) and MyMedLab (ZRT and Sabre Sciences).

http://www.gdx.net/
https://store.zrtlab.com/
http://www.canaryclub.org/index.php?Itemid=167
https://sttm.mymedlab.com/

Once you have your results, just being "in range" is not enough, it's also where in the range you fall that's important.
http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/lab-values/

pm sent as well.

echo wrote:I agree with the others - it's important to make sure that cpap therapy is optimized. That's why I was asking if the insomnia predated pap therapy.

For cortisol saliva testing, 3 good labs are Genova Diagnostics, ZRT labs, and Sabre Sciences. You can also order through Canary Club (ZRT) and MyMedLab (ZRT and Sabre Sciences).

http://www.gdx.net/
https://store.zrtlab.com/
http://www.canaryclub.org/index.php?Itemid=167
https://sttm.mymedlab.com/

Once you have your results, just being "in range" is not enough, it's also where in the range you fall that's important.
http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/lab-values/

pm sent as well.

My AHI levels are really low, but I am not sleeping well. I have been extremely sleepy after getting home from work the last 3 nights and was today when I woke up. I rarely feel I am getting deep sleep. I am so tired of being tired all the time.

fmj13 wrote:My AHI levels are really low, but I am not sleeping well. I have been extremely sleepy after getting home from work the last 3 nights and was today when I woke up. I rarely feel I am getting deep sleep. I am so tired of being tired all the time.

fmj, I hear ya. I was tired of being tired for so many years. Last few months I again haven't been getting decent sleep and I'm really suffering for it again, so really, I completely understand.

I know it can be difficult, but just remember this is transient. I wouldn't have believed it if someone told me 5 years ago that I'd actually be feeling better now than I have in a decade, but I do ... but it took time to get to where I am.

Just take it one day at a time, try to take care of yourself, and keep digging. Can you take some time off from work while you sort things out? Are you able to sleep in on weekends?

Did I overlook a response to the possibility of limb movements? Has that been ruled out?