Need help from Respironics experts re recorded data

dsm · Post by **dsm** » Fri Feb 17, 2006 7:38 pm

My BiPap Pro2 keeps generating data cards that have 1988 as the date ?

There is nowhere I can set the date on the machine.

I tried several times to use Encore Pro to set a prescription assuming it would set the date in the BiPap Pro2 but that doesn't seem to fix it.

Can anyone advise re setting date correctly ?

Cheers DSM

Wulfman · Post by **Wulfman** » Fri Feb 17, 2006 8:59 pm

Doug, (DSM)

I suspect the battery died. Remember how computers revert back to the BIOS date when the motherboard batteries die?
When I contacted Respironics about a month after I got my Pro 2 about the fact that the date on my Encore Pro reports was seven minutes behind the time, they informed me that it would have to be sent in to the factory to be fixed. Also, it would be about a two to six week turnaround. It's now about twenty-five minutes behind, so I'm facing the same thing sometime this year (before the warranty runs out). Derek also wrote some months back about his machine losing it's clock function. I think he said his was reverting to a date in 1998.

Hope that answers your question.

Best wishes,

Den

dsm · Post by **dsm** » Fri Feb 17, 2006 11:37 pm

Den,

That was what I feared

This model wasn't released in Australia so I have faint hope the local distributor will even know what to do with it. But I will give them a call & ask if they are able to reset the clock .

I also believe the alorithm for sensing leaks (Auto-Trak?) is out of whack - it seems to be able to only handle nasal pillows masks for which all functions (BiFlex etc:) work as described & as expected but with a high flow fixed-leak mask such as the Ultra Mirage F/F mask, it keeps switching to Epap too soon.

The pressure sensor seems spot on. The flow sensors definitely work but the evaluation of leakage is incorrect.

Thanks for steering me in the right direction.

Cheers

DSM

PS the battery checks out ok. _

CPAPopedia Keywords Contained In This Post (Click For Definition): mirage, Nasal Pillows

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CPAPopedia Keywords Contained In This Post (Click For Definition): mirage, Nasal Pillows

dsm · Post by **dsm** » Sat Feb 18, 2006 2:44 pm

Did some thinking overnight & with the input from Den and my observations of a my BiPap Pro2 have drawn some conclusions re 'losing bios settings'

Most recent xPAP machines have a battery used to power a memory chip in them just like a PC. That is because most modern xPAPs have a computer and software operating system and a program in them.

As Den has reminded me, if the battery dies or gets shorted somehow, the memory chip holding some configuration data including things like the date & time, gets lost.

Some machines such as the Resmeds allow the clinician to set the date. Remstars don't. So if one has a machine that behaves strangely and the date is lost, something (battery or misshandling) may well have caused it to lose its stored config data.

I got to thinking about just what else could be stored in the battery backed memory.

On my BiPap I believe the base leak rates may be data that it holds. I have wondered this because if I use a mask with a high fixed leak rate the machine acts as if there is an excessive leak rate. If I block the leak holes on this same mask the machine seems to function correctly in all modes & settings.

Over time I had deduced that it would only work with masks that have a very low fixed leak rate such as the Breeze which has its leak holes set to emit 27 l/s at 15 cms. That seems to be within the BiPaps expectation so it works 100% correctly with that mask.

Also, with the loss of the battery backed memory, the data recording function appears messed up. The machines does record data (I can see it in Encore Pro) but it does say there is 0% compliance & doesn't produce all the fully detailed reports expected even though the data is there.

So for me this is another learning experience regarding the probabilities of what happens if the data in the battery backed memory in an xPAP gets erased.

It does seem a PITB that this machine will have to be sent back to Respironics (possibly in the US) just to get its date & other config data restored !.

Cheers

DSM

dsm · Post by **dsm** » Sat Feb 18, 2006 7:26 pm

More thoughts.

I had wondered why the BiPap Pro2 had 0.2 hours use - now I know - when the previous owner (who sold it to me for a *very* low price ) had it, somehow after the water damage had occured, someone somehow shorted the internal battery which erased the battery backed memory used by the program in the unit.

Thus far I am confident it lost the following data .. (and I guess this will apply to other models as well) ...

1) Date & time
2) Hours used (blower on time)
3) Possibly the serial # if that is held in the battery backed mem (but the label on the bottom has that anyway)
4) Data on leak rates ?
5) Perhaps the software version etc:
6) Perhaps some data recording format info for the data cards
7) Perhaps some data relating to BiFlex behaviour (although that does seem to function ok when all fixed leak holes in any mask, are sealed off)

Cheers

DSM

PS #2 - just wanted to add that after several night use with the new motor bearings, they are getting so quiet now, that last night I checked to see if the unit was on. One big contributor to the quietness though was using a Remstar H/H vs the HC150 I had been using.

The integrated Remstar H/H lowers the unit noise quite markedly. The HC150 is very practical h/h but having that extra bit of hose from the xPAP to the HC150 does seem to allow more noise to get out.

Cheers

DSM

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CPAPopedia Keywords Contained In This Post (Click For Definition): bipap

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CPAPopedia Keywords Contained In This Post (Click For Definition): bipap, hose

NightHawkeye · Post by **NightHawkeye** » Sat Feb 18, 2006 7:35 pm

I believe you, DSM, but I have to wonder why they would have used volatile memory rather than non-volatile memory. On the surface, that doesn't seem to make much sense being that this is a medical device.

Given that battery lifetimes are somewhat unpredictable, the info you're talking about isn't very reassuring.

Regards,
Bill

dsm · Post by **dsm** » Sat Feb 18, 2006 10:14 pm

Agree 100%. Why on earth use non-volatile ram - beats me.

But, If I were to guess it would be the same answer as to why all PCs have the same problem with their clocks if the motherboard battery fails.

I am not really sure of the answer - Am thinking that years ago the type of ram used to hold BIOS data such as clock settings & other BIOS info, was super expensive and that was why that type of RAM was then and still is now used.

Perhaps someone else with in depth motherboard expertise might explain why even today's notebooks & PCs still use volatile RAM to hold BIOS data.

Cheers

DSM

PS before posting this I did a google on BIOS ram & found this link

http://www.pcstats.com/articleview.cfm?articleID=1605

The key para is this one ...
<<
Every modern motherboard contains a CMOS (Complementary Metal-Oxide Semiconductor) memory chip which is powered by a small battery, storing any changes you have made to the default BIOS configuration. This is why you can restore your BIOS to its default settings simply by removing the motherboard battery for a few minutes.
<<

Unfortunately doing this this seems to do harm to our computer driven xPAPs. I have noticed that the batteries in all the xPAPs I have opened, are hardwired in & can't be removed. To replace requires unsoldering them.

D

Another link plus a photo of the type of battery.

http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/article/81

Goofproof · Post by **Goofproof** » Sat Feb 18, 2006 10:16 pm

I would sooner believe that all critical data (machine control) would be burn't into ROM, If not we are all in trouble. The battery probably keeps the clock working and stores machine settings, not any major systems.

One suggestion: You might change the clock in your computer to see if you can access the data in Encore Pro. Maybe the computer can't deal with that old a date on the data.

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CPAPopedia Keywords Contained In This Post (Click For Definition): Encore Pro

Snoredog · Post by **Snoredog** » Sun Feb 19, 2006 12:38 am

the machine gets its time from the SmartCard, from the computer's clock that last "setup" the SmartCard, if the date/time wasn't set correctly on the computer that setup the smartcard, then your problem.

Suggest putting the card back in a reader and running the Setup on the card again after completely erasing it from the EncorePro software, it should pick up the new date/time and transfer it to the machine.

dsm · Post by **dsm** » Sun Feb 19, 2006 1:27 am

Snoredog,

Good suggestion & I did actually try to create a prescription - seemed to create the card ok - the new EPAP and APAP settings changed the BiPap ok - my computer's clock is ok as using the Encore Pro utilities I can read what is on the card. It seemed to me the most logical place to set the unit's date time so yes I will play around in that area.

The date (in 1988) is progressing each day.
I have 1 new & 3 used cards (3 of which are from my Remstar AUTO).
The computer clock tells me the right mins hour day date & year.

Thanks

DSM

dsm · Post by **dsm** » Sun Feb 19, 2006 2:12 am

(screen grabs)
http://www.internetage.com/cpapinfo/bip ... index.html

Had another try

here are the screen grabs showing me setting the prescrition for the BiPap with today's local date (bit ahead of where most of you are )

The prescription changed the BiPap ok I ran it for 2 mins removed the card downloaded the data but while the data shows it is back in 1888 (comapre the two screens showing the last 2 nights data marks).

Interestingly the wizard never let me choose the BiFlex setting but you can see I chose BiFlex & that is what it set the machine to.

Cheers

DSM