Thoughts On Untested Theory About Heated Hose?

[KenTheriot]

Can I get opinions about a theory I have? Is it possible that having the heated hose temperature too high can cause dry-mouth?

I have been having trouble with dry-mouth when using my full face mask with my S9 VPAP Adapt. I tried turning both the hose temperature on the ClimateLine and the humidity to maximum, but still - dry mouth after a few hours.

My preferred PAP method is to use APAP with nasal mask. When my nasal passages are clear, this works beautifully. Unfortunately, the nasal passages get blocked up about 30% of the time, hence the need for FF mask. And since a FF mask doesn't work well for me on APAP, I had an ASV study and found that the only way I can use a FF mask is with ASV. Had tons of trouble getting past leaks and aerophasia, and now it seems dry-mouth is the final thing to conquer.

Now to the point - folks here suggested that heated humidification can actually make nasal congestion worse! I didn't know that. So I turned both the hose temp and the humidity to "off" and only use passive/pass-over humidification. It had only been 4 or 5 days, but I hadn't had any congestion in that time. Cautious optimism! But then I noticed my nose and the air going into it were getting really cold at night. So I tried turning JUST the heat on the hose up while leaving humidity off. I didn't get congested, but I got dry-mouth! Using APAP and nasal mask! That was a first for me. I don't remember ever having dry-mouth with a nasal mask before. So I posited that it could be due to the hose heat being on while the humidification was turned off.

Has this ever been brought up before? Is there anything to this theory. I plan to test it properly unless there is evidence already out there that there is no correlation between these things. Thoughts?

Thanks!

Ken

[Julie]

What about shifting the burden of heat to the room thermostat, i.e. keeping it a bit higher if it's set to 'cold', and not have to keep the hose so warm that it dries you out?

[KenTheriot]

What about shifting the burden of heat to the room thermostat, i.e. keeping it a bit higher if it's set to 'cold', and not have to keep the hose so warm that it dries you out?

My wife and I have a pretty narrow range of what we both find comfortable enough to sleep, so any movement of the room temperature will make sleeping more difficult. Right now it's at 70/71 at night.

I'm going to try sleeping with just humidification and a regular hose to see if that makes a difference. I was getting rainout in the winter before the ClimateLine hose, which is why I went to it in the first place. Sigh. It's always something.

Ken

[Wulfman...]

Can I get opinions about a theory I have? Is it possible that having the heated hose temperature too high can cause dry-mouth?

I have been having trouble with dry-mouth when using my full face mask with my S9 VPAP Adapt. I tried turning both the hose temperature on the ClimateLine and the humidity to maximum, but still - dry mouth after a few hours.

My preferred PAP method is to use APAP with nasal mask. When my nasal passages are clear, this works beautifully. Unfortunately, the nasal passages get blocked up about 30% of the time, hence the need for FF mask. And since a FF mask doesn't work well for me on APAP, I had an ASV study and found that the only way I can use a FF mask is with ASV. Had tons of trouble getting past leaks and aerophasia, and now it seems dry-mouth is the final thing to conquer.

Now to the point - folks here suggested that heated humidification can actually make nasal congestion worse! I didn't know that. So I turned both the hose temp and the humidity to "off" and only use passive/pass-over humidification. It had only been 4 or 5 days, but I hadn't had any congestion in that time. Cautious optimism! But then I noticed my nose and the air going into it were getting really cold at night. So I tried turning JUST the heat on the hose up while leaving humidity off. I didn't get congested, but I got dry-mouth! Using APAP and nasal mask! That was a first for me. I don't remember ever having dry-mouth with a nasal mask before. So I posited that it could be due to the hose heat being on while the humidification was turned off.

Has this ever been brought up before? Is there anything to this theory. I plan to test it properly unless there is evidence already out there that there is no correlation between these things. Thoughts?

Thanks!

Ken

"Dry mouth" is a pretty positive indication of "mouth breathing". It doesn't matter if the mask is full face or otherwise. If it's a nasal mask, then the probability of losing therapy air is pretty much assured. Some medications or other health conditions could also be a factor.

I've been using a full face mask (the UMFF) and "passover" humidification year round for over nine years. Never have a problem with mouth-breathing or dry mouth (unless I have a cold and HAVE to breathe through my mouth.....which is very seldom). But, to keep the air in the hose warmer, I route the hose under the covers and along my body. That works pretty well.

For quite a number of people, the heat or heated humidification can significantly contribute to nasal congestion, which can cause mouth breathing and result in dry mouth.


Den

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[ChicagoGranny]

Is it possible that having the heated hose temperature too high can cause dry-mouth?

CPAP humidifiers are designed to moisten the narrow respiratory passage of the nose which is lined with ciliated pseudostratified columnar epithelium. The narrowness of the passage and the type of cells it is lined with are conducive to absorbing and holding water.

The mouth is a much larger opening than the nose and gum tissue is largely made of a fibrous protein called collagen, covered by a layer of another very resilient protein called keratin. The volume of the passages and the type of cells it is lined with are conducive to drying and are not conducive to absorbing water.

Bottom line, CPAP humidifiers can do an excellent job of humidifying the nasal passages, but for an open mouth better get a spritzer spray bottle.

Have you tried one of the mouth gels that is made for moisturizing the mouth? I use OraJel. http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_ss_i_ ... rizing+gel

ChicagoGramps

[grayghost4]

box of 3 is $17 and a box of 6 is $42 , 2 X 17 = 34 ... it's cheaper to purchase two small .....usually it is cheaper in larger quanity

Do use one a night? $50 a week ..... wow

I will live with dry-mouth

[Ogeo]

I am still new at this - only one week on my Auto SV. I have been playing around with the humidifier setting and heated hose setting because of super dry mouth my first few nights. I use a FFM because my nose is usually stuffy due to allergies. After two nights of my mouth so dry I couldn't even move my lips or tongue, I started reading the forums and found post for the XyliMelts. They do work but I can't imagine using them in the long run because of the cost. So I got a chin strap next. I used it two night under my mask and the leaks have been high around where the mask hits the chin strap. So tonight I am going to put the FFM on first and the chin strap on top of it. Maybe it will help hold my mask in place with my high pressure.

You could try a chin strap and see if that stops your dry mouth, then you'd know if it was you opening your mouth or another source.

BTW, after 2 nights using the chin strap, my mouth feels soooooo much better. It finally feels back to normal.

[Elle]

a tiny tube of oral gel lasts a really long time. You only need a dab.

[ChicagoGranny]

Have you tried one of the mouth gels that is made for moisturizing the mouth? I use OraJel. http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_ss_i_ ... rizing+gel

ChicagoGramps

Do use one a night? $50 a week ..... wow

No silly! One tube lasts about 2.5 weeks for me.

The secret is using it properly. I don't want to take credit for this technique because it has been posted by others on the forum and I use their technique. Put a small glob on the tip of your tongue. Using the tongue, rub it up high in the gum between the six front teeth and the gum. The higher up you get it, the longer into the night it will last. Leave it up there and be careful not to suck it out. It will gradually seep into the mouth during the night.

One tip is to use a small amount. If you use too much, some of it tends to ooze down and siphon out much of the rest.

This is not a complete cure for dry mouth, but it is a very big help and I don't miss a night without using it.

box of 3 is $17 and a box of 6 is $42 , 2 X 17 = 34 ... it's cheaper to purchase two small .....usually it is cheaper in larger quanity

Silly, you are looking at prices from two different suppliers.

Shop wisely. I am not endorsing those two suppliers. Do your own search. Granny finds some very good deals at times.

Good luck,


ChicagoGramps

[DeadlySleep]

Bottom line, CPAP humidifiers can do an excellent job of humidifying the nasal passages, but for an open mouth better get a spritzer spray bottle.

Well put. The humidifier does a good job moisturizing the nose but it just won't work for dry mouth. You would need actual water, not just water vapor.

[KenTheriot]

Thanks everyone!

Yes, I know I mouth-breathe. That's the whole reason for the FF mask. My nasal congestion is chronic and sometimes gets so bad that I cannot use a nasal mask.

And even when my nasal passages are relatively clear - for me - such that I can use my nasal mask, my jaw still drops open and I mouth-breathe! I've tried and tired to develop the habit of sleeping with my tongue pressed against the roof of my mouth. And it works sometimes. But as soon as I fall asleep, down drops the jaw. For many years I have had to use a chin strap to TRY to keep my jaw up. But even that doesn't solve the problem. It's totally possible to mouth-breathe even with your jaw closed. I wouldn't have thought it, but I'm living proof. Many is the night I wake myself up breathing through my mouth even while my jaw is held up by the chin strap. So I started sewing loops of ACE bandages together that I can wrap around my mouth/lips to help prevent the mouth-breathing even with the chin strap. THAT setup usually works - that is until my nasal passages decide the want to take a holiday and close for the night, which is once or twice per week. But at least on those other nights, I don't get dry mouth! If I could solve the nasal congestion problem, I would be totally sorted in the CPAP/Apnea department.

BTW, I keep the heated humidification to a minimum while sleeping, since folks here say it can actually make congestion worse.

Cheers,

Ken

[glarnold]

Just to find out, you may want to try the FFM without the humidifier even connected. I am a mouth-breather. Have been all my life. Been using a FFM (didn't even know there was a humidifier (for years), for nine years now, with no humidifier. 69 degrees at night, no dry mouth.

JMO.

[Captain_Midnight]

Interesting observation, Ken, and I believe that the observed effect (heated hose only causes dryness) might be correct.

Here's why.

Warm air holds more moisture than cool air. When cool air is warmed, it holds a lower humidity, expressed as a percent. Thus, warming cool air makes it drier.

Conversely, if warm air is cooled, relative humidity increases, and voila...condensation.

I choose to humidify only with passover mode and no hose heating. For me, my breathing passages remain clearer and my AHI is significantly lower than if I heat at all. (Some folks see this differently, and that's fine.)

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