CPAP machine helps sleep apnea but still feeling dopey

[palerider]

Damn! Forgot to add that each machine has CE 0123 printed.

Thanks for your patience - you are dealing with a half awake CPAP user

apparently half awake renders one totally incapable of following simple directions

be that as it may, we've finally been able to ascertain that you have the dreaded REF 36001 escape brick,

a unit which can only blow some air and which is totally devoid of any useful information about how it's doing to alleviate your apnea.

[purple]

Have you had a recently administered "overnight sleep Titration Study" Hopefully done at a competent lab?

Just plugging in a machine and fiddling with the controls is a very hit or miss thing. While much of this blog (link follows) seems to refer to insurance, it explains the difference between some types of machines. And it is a little funny too.

http://maskarrayed.wordpress.com/what-y ... me-part-i/

If you are going to keep on trying to do this without an Overnight Sleep Study, (and a hopefully competent sleep doctor), then you need a machine that has full data, and full auto. However a machine on Auto is, to me, not a good substitute for a competently administered overnight sleep study. In my case, I do not do well with auto, that is my breathing patterns convince the machine to keep increasing pressure when it is not needed. So trying to self-titrate with a full auto machine would never work.

Some of us also take, during the day, Ginseng, Ginkgo Bilboa plus a lot of full on caffeine coffee to feel awake. Some have suggested some form of Tumeric can also help. Best wishes.

[Pugsy]

Printed on top of the power button is "Escape" & under it "Easy Breathe".

The S9 unit is connected to an H5i humidifier.

The word "Escape" is the model name.
It's what we not so lovingly call a "brick" because it blows air but doesn't have the ability to tell you if your therapy is optimal or not.
See this blog for further information about what is out there and available to help evaluate therapy.
http://maskarrayed.wordpress.com/

So you are using the S9 Escape and the Mirage Quattro full face mask.
In the equipment list drop down menu the correct choice is the S9 Escape CPAP machine with EPR.
The mask is ...Mirage Quattro full face cpap mask with headgear

If anything I feel worse, all windswept and foggy.

when people come here and tell us this we hope that they have a full efficacy data machine that can be used with software to help evaluate the therapy that is being delivered. With the Escape model machine there's nothing to evaluate except hours of use because that's all that the machine can produce data wise.
No way to confirm that the therapy is actually effective...like maybe leaks are rendering the pressure ineffective or maybe the pressure used is ineffective.

So...we can offer much beyond general information as to why you don't feel so great because all we are doing is guessing.

So with a machine that only offers hours of use....how many hours of sleep are you averaging each night and are those hours of sleep fragmented with a lot of wake ups? If so, any idea why the wake ups and do you spend a lot of time awake with machine on?

Unfortunately not everyone wakes up bright eyed and bushy tailed even when the therapy is confirmed optimal with the use of software and the data available on full data machines. Other issues not related to sleep apnea can be present. In your case all we can look at is sleep itself...how many hours do you get and do you wake up often and if you do then "why"?
And do you take any meds of any kind? If so, what? Sometimes the sides effects of some meds will mess with how we feel the next day.

[library lady]

I'm fairly new to cpap, started in Feb. 2014. Yes, it takes a few months to start feeling fully rested with it; I'm still not feeling fully rested, but I do know that I'm sleeping better now. Your brain and your body need to recognize it, even though your intellectual mind says "it's OK". The body has to say that too.

You mentioned leaks... do you know about mask liners? I didn't know about them when I started, and I use a Quattro Air and AirFit F10. I came onto the forum within a week of starting cpap, as I couldn't control the leaks even after using the mask fit feature... and that was when I learned about them. I immediately googled to identify them and bought some. They made a world of difference, and were a game changer for me! The act like a gasket and also protect your face from irritation. A couple sources: http://www.padacheek.com, and https://www.cpap.com. At cpap.com, look under "comfort items" for RemZzzs. RemZzzs are also available from many DMEs if you don't want to order them online. I tried liners from both of these sources, and found the RemZzzs to be the most comfortable for me.

[Tassie Devil]

A reply.

First up Palerider, is the sarcasm necessary or helpful? I think not, it only displays bad manners.

To answer the other queries & comments:

5 years ago I was overnight in hospital for a sleep study and sleep apnea was confirmed. The lung specialist I consulted recommended CPAP but after a week I could not cope so gave up.

This year I returned to the specialist and was prescribed the CPAP machine that is being denigrated here. It was a much improved, quieter model on loan to see how I coped. It was originally set up with low pressure which only rose when required but that kept waking me up so the technician altered it to a more constant pressure.

Back to hospital for another overnight only this time the nurse put me on their machine as she could adjust the pressure to suit my circumstances during the night. Next morning the loan machine was readjusted to the new settings.

Convinced the CPAP approach was the answer to sleep apnea, the loan machine was returned and I hired a brand new unit + new mask - there was no choice of brand. The new machine was adjusted as per sleep study results so one can assume they are optimal. I agree with the comment that user fiddling around could lead to totally inappropriate settings so fail to see how my "brick" is the heap of junk that is being suggested.

Using CPAP I'm getting between 5.5 & 7 hours sleep a night. My wife reports no snoring, snorting, kicking etc, practices which swiftly return if CPAP not used (only happened 2 nights recently). The face mask does not leak but I have ordered a nose only mask (from the USA - half the price of them here) to see how that goes.

I'm on the usual set of aged medications to control blood pressure, indigestion problems, cholesterol (somewhat controversial) etc but NO sleep tablets or other prescribed medications.

Having research on the net quite a bit after my first post in this thread I see my reaction is common. Maybe it does take awhile for the brain to adjust but I'm not enjoying the process and feel particularly foggy at the moment. Too bad, looks like I'll have to live with that for awhile and see if it improves. Being retired with no particular demands on requirements it is not as serious as if I was trying to function in a work environment. That said it is very perplexing to feel worse after using CPAP when my sleep is obviously better. Too bad better sleep seems to be at the expense of feeling worse when awake, sort of makes no sense.

I have to return to the lung specialist soon so will see what he has to say. The nasal mask might also be an improvement. Other than that I see no one really has any suggestion apart from getting a different machine that I can adjust although I'm not sure if that would solve daytime dopiness.

But thank you to those taking an interest and trying to help.

John

[palerider]

A reply.

First up Palerider, is the sarcasm necessary or helpful? I think not, it only displays bad manners.

well, if it got you to actually pay attention, just a little bit, then yes, I'd say it was helpful.
[/quote]

[Tassie Devil]

Palerider, you just cannot make the effort to be nice can you? Trust me, it does not take any more time to type something pleasant as it does to type like you do. But then maybe my dopiness problem pales into significance to the problems some people seem to have when posting on the internet. But the good thing about these people is it makes the rest of us look so much better!

All the best

John

[palerider]

Palerider, you just cannot make the effort to be nice can you?

well, you could put it down to frustration at your being told *six* times how to tell what kind of machine you had, and you pretty much ignoring all of those, until you finally let slip that it was an escape...

[Tassie Devil]

Well I guess some of us are not as smart as others Palerider so this forum is indeed blessed to have you to keep us in line. Dopes like me really do need chastising so we avoid wasting your valuable time and frustrating the other brighter posters among us.

That said, it does not come across to me as polite when asking for help to respond sarcastically, but then maybe I was brought up differently.

Palerider you may indeed be a caring empathetic person, prepared to help others, it is just there is little evidence of it appearing in these last few posts in this thread. But I guess you have taken the trouble to respond which is more than some others have so thank you for that.

All the best

John

[apw5746]

Palerider,

When it comes to making remarks to other peoples posts, you take the cake for making smarty aleck comments. You need to be banned from the site as you're nothing but a jerk. You know it, and so do most people that incur you sophomoric insults. For the age listed under your profile, you sure don't act it. You need to go back and play in the sandbox where you might learn some manners.

apw5746

[palerider]

Well I guess some of us are not as smart as others Palerider so this forum is indeed blessed to have you to keep us in line. Dopes like me really do need chastising so we avoid wasting your valuable time and frustrating the other brighter posters among us.

That said, it does not come across to me as polite when asking for help to respond sarcastically, but then maybe I was brought up differently.

I'm sorry that I offended you, and you're right, I did get overly snippy.

I do wish you the best of luck with your therapy, though I'm afraid that people here will be hampered at being able to help you due to the type of machine you've got. I'd love to be proven wrong.

[palerider]

Palerider,

When it comes to making remarks to other peoples posts, you take the cake for making smarty aleck comments. You need to be banned from the site as you're nothing but a jerk. You know it, and so do most people that incur you sophomoric insults. For the age listed under your profile, you sure don't act it. You need to go back and play in the sandbox where you might learn some manners.

apw5746

peering in the mirror again, are we? this is none of your business, though, you're just as free to stick your unwanted, unhelpful, nosey ass in here as anybody else.

fortunately, the forum does have an ignore list, so I won't have to see your contributions

[archangle]

Thought I had replied but the post vanished.

Printed on top of the power button is "Escape" & under it "Easy Breathe".

The S9 unit is connected to an H5i humidifier.

Does that nail it down?

That's the magic words. Please check the "S9 Escape" tab on your profile. Also put the "Mirage Quattro" in the mask section of your profile.

Easy Breathe is probably the name of your supplier.

Unfortunately, you got screwed by your DME (CPAP seller) and let down by your doctor. Your machine doesn't record any data about how well your therapy is working. A decent CPAP machine records every breath you make every night and records when you have apneas. We often disparagingly call such CPAP machines "bricks," or "dataless."

Your machine will do just fine in terms of blowing air, but you have no way to tell whether it's treating your apnea or not. It's sort of like treating diabetes without monitoring your blood sugar.

It sounds like you are getting some benefit from your CPAP, keep at it. You CAN get the right treatment with a brick, if you find the right pressure, but you're sort of stabbing in the dark. You might have to tinker with the pressure a lot and guess how it's working from how you feel. You might make that work. It's a lot easier with a fully data capable machine.

If you can afford it, or twist the arm of your doctor or DME, get a fully data capable CPAP machine. You could buy an S9 AutoSet online from our host, cpap.com or other online stores for $750 or so. That's just the blower unit, but it will use your existing humidifier and other parts. The S9 AutoSet would measure your apnea and breathing every night, and it can also be used to automatically adjust pressure as you need it.

Once you get the right machine, you can read your AHI score off the screen, or use free software to see very useful graphs.

[zoocrewphoto]

This year I returned to the specialist and was prescribed the CPAP machine that is being denigrated here. It was a much improved, quieter model on loan to see how I coped. It was originally set up with low pressure which only rose when required but that kept waking me up so the technician altered it to a more constant pressure.

Back to hospital for another overnight only this time the nurse put me on their machine as she could adjust the pressure to suit my circumstances during the night. Next morning the loan machine was readjusted to the new settings.

Convinced the CPAP approach was the answer to sleep apnea, the loan machine was returned and I hired a brand new unit + new mask - there was no choice of brand. The new machine was adjusted as per sleep study results so one can assume they are optimal. I agree with the comment that user fiddling around could lead to totally inappropriate settings so fail to see how my "brick" is the heap of junk that is being suggested.
John

I suspect that the loaner machine was an autoset since you mentioned the pressure being able to go up as needed, and they must have reviewed the data before giving you the machine you have now.

I know it is not pleasant to hear that your current machine is a brick, but unfortunately, it has no data. Our sleep can vary from night to night as we sleep in different positions, the seasons change, allergies change, we get a cold, we eat later, drink alocohol some nights, etc. All these things can change how we sleep. And that means that our pressure needs may change. Many people learn that the pressure set by the doctor is not the pressure that ends up working well for them. Sometimes it is too high and causes comfort problems. Sometimes it is too low and doesn't prevent enough breathing events.

My mom had an older brick (before the machines had data available), and her pressure was set by the doctor to 10. After I got my full data auto machine (like the one you had for a loaner), I let her use it for a partial night at her setting of 10. Her hourly average was 3.4, considered good. But then I downloaded the data and looked at the graphs. Yikes! She had clusters of events that were over 30 seconds long. One of them was over a minute long. No wonder she felt horrible, even with the machine. We did another partial night with the machine set at 10-13. She went to my doctor this time with the printed reports from my machine and her old sleep study. The doctor prescribed an auto machine, set for 10-15, and she feels much better for now.

Her old machine never had any info to offer, so we would never have known that her treatment wasn't successful. Even the ahi (hourly average) wasn't enough to tell us anything. It was the graph that showed the events, how close together they were, and how LONG they were. That is what got her a newer improved treatment.

[apw5746]

Palerider,

When it comes to making remarks to other peoples posts, you take the cake for making smarty aleck comments. You need to be banned from the site as you're nothing but a jerk. You know it, and so do most people that incur you sophomoric insults. For the age listed under your profile, you sure don't act it. You need to go back and play in the sandbox where you might learn some manners.

apw5746

peering in the mirror again, are we? this is none of your business, though, you're just as free to stick your unwanted, unhelpful, nosey ass in here as anybody else.

fortunately, the forum does have an ignore list, so I won't have to see your contributions

Mirror, mirror on the wall..... Did I hit a nerve? You actually cursed. Guess you graduated from the sandbox after all. Probably got you nose blooded a time or two while you were in there.

Guess quite a few will have to use the ignore list on you.

What you need is a swift kick in the gonads, if you have any left.

Actually when you demean people for their innocent remarks, or remarks that displease you, it's anyone's business.

By carrying on this tirade with you, I should be banished. I've dipped to your level of juvenile remarks.