Modding better harnessing, to keep nasal pillows in place?

[4betterO2]

I've been wanting to use a nasal pillows mask for a long time, but haven't found out how to properly secure it in position.
This is a real problem not only because of loss of CPAP pressure when the mask gets somewhat displaced, but also it is likely to cause hearing loss as the mask becomes so loud when leaking, and this can last for a while, before waking you up. When trying to use a nasal pillows, I remember one day waking up with the mask off position, and hearing a ringing in the ears so loud and strong, it lasted for almost an hour.
The last mask I tried is the Nuance, (I would love to use it regularly as its gel-lined pillows are so comfortable!), but it does not stay in place for me (neither did the Optimus). I would like to mod it so it could stay in place when I turn around in bed, making it more reliable for therapy: looking for suggestions and success stories (on this or other models)?

[englandsf]

Are you using very high pressures? - I've never heard of a mask that is so loud as to cause hearing loss. But ear pressure issues are much more possible.

You might like to look at the P10 - the "arms" that come our from the frame inside the cloth straps conform really well to the cheeks and stop sideways movement well, even if you bury you face into the pillow. I also found using the max size pillows and wedging them into my nostrils makes for a really good fit.

It's also quiet beyond belief both for the wearer and for the bed partner.

Good luck.

[RogerSC]

Yeah, the hearing loss part is interesting, haven't heard that one before. I'd suggest using foam earplugs at night to avoid losing your hearing...I use them to make ambient noise quieter, and they're really helpful to me for that.

For masks, I'd recommend the Swift FX or the AirFit P10. The AirFit P10 is the quieter of the two, but they have different fit characteristics, so one might work for you while the other doesn't. I've been able to adjust both of these for minimum leakage while maintaining relative comfort, and am currently enjoying the quietness of the AirFit P10. I don't suggest using the largest size and wedging them in your nose, that doesn't make any sense to me *smile*, but whatever works for you. I use the normal fitting process of finding the size nasal pillow that first looks like the best fit, and then changing that if you need to as a result of leaks at night. There are several videos on youtube about fitting these two nasal pillow masks.

And I wish you good luck in your mask fitting journey *smile*.

[Janknitz]

Interesting. The higher the pressure, the more the pillows inflate against your nose. So they don't usually jump around from the pressure. It's mask stability that can be the problem, because moving around and the weight of the hose can pull the mask away from your face.

I would NOT recommend the Swift FX for you. The frame doesn't really hold it firmly in place and the short hose is a little heavy. It's a great, minimalist mask, but not very stable.

The Swift LT, OTOH, is very lightweight, has a very stable frame, and the option to route the short hose to the top of the headgear which further stabilizes it. That's one you may want to try.

I'm using the Whisp mask right now. It's not nasal pillows, it's a nasal mask--a tiny silicone nasal mask with fairly stable headgear. I use it with a Padacheek liner which further prevents leaking and increases comfort. And I'm beginning to really like it even though the headgear is not very adjustable and the back part doesn't really fit my head well. I love that there's no hard plastic around the little nasal cushion (except where it joins the frame). I like that it's lightweight, stable, and I can scratch almost anything that itches. It has the weirdest (and most difficult) closure system ever, but it's a minor bother.

Finally, having a hose management system with a nasal pillow mask really helps with stability, too.

[jencat824]

I second the advice for the Swift LT. I wore it for quite awhile before moving to the P10. The Swift LT has a frame which helps hold the pillows in place. I was unable to successfully use nasal pillows prior to that. I've tried several & I think the frame design of the LT helped me 'learn' to use pillows. I still cannot use the Nuance, but my problem with it is the headgear, it disagrees with my neck.

If you want to try the Swift LT PM me, I think I have a spare I could send you. I'll have to check, just let me know if you are interested.

Jen

[Pugsy]

The F & P Aloha is very similar in construction to the Swift LT but a bit lighter and more flexible IMHO...might be worth looking at.
I have used both.

If the Tap Pap (see link in my profile) interests you....those nasal pillows NEVER move on me....never and I toss and turn all night long.

Second the idea to maybe try some sort of hose management system if you haven't already. Elimination of the hose tugging on the nasal pillows helps a lot with their stability.

[englandsf]

Roger

Of course we're all different but I went the wrong way with small pillows at first (and I have a giant shnoz!) and they leaked like crazy - but looked fine. The large ones are under almost no pressure from the P10 (and figuring out how to adjust that strap is a skill itself, right?) yet they are incredibly stable. So no pig nose in the morning!

I don't think any mask I have seen or tried can match the side to side stability the "wings" of the P10 frame give me.

[4betterO2]

Thanks for all the replies, I will research those masks!

[Guest]

When fitting nasal pillows to my nares I always start with the largest size and work my way down while checking for leaks and comfort. The pillows need to rest on the outside of the nares to seal.

[jencat824]

Oooooo....

I forgot to include that I also use "O" rings on the pillows. I got this tip from a forum member, can't remember who, but I buy them at Lowes or Home Depot in the plumbing dept. I use a size 10 on the Air Fit P10, size medium pillow (I used a size 9 on the Swift LT). Basically the "O" ring holds the pillow up to the nare, helping with the seal.

Jen

[RogerSC]

Roger

Of course we're all different but I went the wrong way with small pillows at first (and I have a giant shnoz!) and they leaked like crazy - but looked fine. The large ones are under almost no pressure from the P10 (and figuring out how to adjust that strap is a skill itself, right?) yet they are incredibly stable. So no pig nose in the morning!

I don't think any mask I have seen or tried can match the side to side stability the "wings" of the P10 frame give me.

Interesting. I find the stability of the P10 and FX pretty comparable, in different ways. On the other hand, the LT had too much structure for me. It was just too constricting for comfort, and I was glad to get the FX after that. I found the Aloha didn't stay in place for me, so I gave up on it, but a lot of people like it, too. I don't have a huge nose, but I do move around a LOT while I'm sleeping, so having something that's flexible yet stays with me is important *smile*. And yet it has to be comfortable while it's staying with me, or I won't sleep *smile*. So far, the P10 is working better than any other that I've tried, with the FX in second place.

I understand about the P10, I started with a Small nasal pillow there, too. While it fit standing in front of the mirror, when I actually slept with it, too many leaks. So I moved up to the Medium, and that's (as Goldilocks would say) just right for me.

And yes, it is the inflation that's a big part of holding a nasal pillow in position, that's what keeps it sealed and moving with you when you move if everything's fitting right.

Anyways, for me the secret has been trying different nasal pillow masks. I've even tried nasal masks, but haven't found anything there that works for me yet. A few of them I've tried more than once, like the Aloha, the Nuance (gel once, fabric once), tap pap (original and modified), and most recently the P10. Some clearly just didn't work, so no further trying was necessary *smile*.

It is definitely a voyage of discovery, and since sleeping is very important to me, it's worth all the trying...thank goodness for cpap.com and return insurance *smile*.

[4betterO2]

Thanks for everyone who has their equipment listed as a link in their signature, this really facilitates following up on the suggestions in your posts
(Mine disappeared I don't know why, haven't yet found how to bring it back)