I can't sleep because of the noise

[49er]

Maybe "The Wife" is overly sensitive to noise because she has untreated sleep apnea.

OhHelpMe,

Can you say more about that? The reason I am asking is even before I was diagnosed with sleep apnea, I was always overly sensitive to noise. So that is why I am curious.

Thanks!

49er

[robysue]

Maybe "The Wife" is overly sensitive to noise because she has untreated sleep apnea.

OhHelpMe,

Can you say more about that? The reason I am asking is even before I was diagnosed with sleep apnea, I was always overly sensitive to noise. So that is why I am curious.

Thanks!

49er

The idea is simple: If you've got untreated OSA, then your body is naturally arousing multiple times an hour just to restart the breathing. If there is ambient noise, you're more likely to notice the noise in each arousal because you're already "partially" awake (due to the arousal). If you notice the noise during the OSA-related arousal, you're more likely to finish waking up and consciously become aware of the noise. And blame the noise for waking you up.

[robysue]

I am ready to tell him to sleep somewhere else.

One doesn't tell the person who is looking after their health with a cpap machine to go and sleep elsewhere. YOU are the one with the issues and who doesn't have to lug the machine to where you are sleeping so YOU are the one to move. That cpap machine makes much less noise then the average air conditioner so the problem is somewhere inside your head.

BlackSpinner has a very good point here.

Hubby is doing something that is required to take care of his long term health AND it involves equipment that needs a secure place to stay by the bedside. And once hubby's gone to bed, hubby should not be ask to move because that means lugging the equipment out of the bedroom, setting it up where ever hubby is expected to sleep, and then lugging the equipment back into the bedroom in the morning. The PAP-less wife can much more easily get up and go sleep in a different room if she finds herself unable to sleep or get back to sleep due to CPAP-noise.

If the wife can't sleep and there's only one comfortable bed in the house, she's the one who should go sleep on the couch or the lumpy bed in the guest room rather than kicking hubby and machine out to the couch or down to the lumpy bed in the guest room: Wife only has the bad bed to deal with; hubby has both the bad bed AND moving the equipment to deal with.

If the noise is a serious long term problem for the wife AND there is a spare room, the long term solution may be buying a second high quality bed for the spare "guest" room and then sleeping in separate rooms with beds of equal quality.

[49er]

Maybe "The Wife" is overly sensitive to noise because she has untreated sleep apnea.

OhHelpMe,

Can you say more about that? The reason I am asking is even before I was diagnosed with sleep apnea, I was always overly sensitive to noise. So that is why I am curious.

Thanks!

49er

The idea is simple: If you've got untreated OSA, then your body is naturally arousing multiple times an hour just to restart the breathing. If there is ambient noise, you're more likely to notice the noise in each arousal because you're already "partially" awake (due to the arousal). If you notice the noise during the OSA-related arousal, you're more likely to finish waking up and consciously become aware of the noise. And blame the noise for waking you up.

Actually, I think it is noise that I have always been very sensitive to regarding getting to sleep. As a kid, I always was asking my parents to turn down the TV.

Now that I am very sleep deprived because of my pap therapy adjustment issues, noise does not unfortunately keep me awake even though many times, I have tried using it so I don't fall asleep prematurely.

Regarding the point you made, I will have to think about that. Several years ago, I did seem to be waking up prematurely to ambien noise coming from my neighbors that wasn't that noisy. But I thought being on psych meds was the culprit since they messed up my sleep but maybe not?

Anyway, the idea wasn't obviously simple to me:) so that is why I asked. Another reason I was curious was sleep apnea has been linked to hearing loss which I have and had blamed on being on a psych med. And since hearing loss makes a person more sensitive to noise, that was another reason I was curious about what Oh Help Me said.

49er

[robysue]

Anyway, the idea wasn't obviously simple to me:) so that is why I asked.

By "simple" I didn't mean "obvious". I meant: The explanation is straightforward (once you see it) and requires no tricky convoluted, hard to understand but important subtleties.

But I will admit: A "simple" process or line of thought is often NOT "obvious" until or unless someone points it out. And an "obvious" observation does not always imply the observation is "simple" in explanation.

In other words: "obvious" and "simple" do not mean the same thing.

To give an example of something that is "obvious" but not "simple": It's well known around here that the connection between OSA and weight gain is complex and probably bi-directional. So even though there is an obvious connection between the two, there's nothing simple about that relationship.

[robysue]

Actually, I think it is noise that I have always been very sensitive to regarding getting to sleep. As a kid, I always was asking my parents to turn down the TV.

Your case may well be different from the OP's. There are a lot of things that can cause sensitivity to noise and problems getting to sleep. And if you've got both problems, well, they are likely to aggravate each other. Noise, including TV noise if the volume is even slightly too high, is one of my migraine triggers. And sensory overload at bedtime has always caused problems with me being able to get to sleep---even as a very young child.

But the OP did not say she had always been super sensitive to noise when trying to get to sleep. If so, then how did she sleep with hubby's presumed snoring? She simply said the noise of the CPAP was keeping her awake.

We all read in different things into statements like this and what we read in is often based on our own particular experiences.

I tend to take statements at face value. If the OP didn't mention "noise issues" in general, then it's the CPAP noise that's new that's the problem, and not a bigger problem with noise in general. When someone else mentioned that the OP might have untreated OSA, and another poster asked why that's a potential reason for the OP's sensitivity to noise, I posted a generic, straightforward explanation that does not take into account a number of possible medical issues in the background that have not been mentioned.

Now that I am very sleep deprived because of my pap therapy adjustment issues, noise does not unfortunately keep me awake even though many times, I have tried using it so I don't fall asleep prematurely.

I know you are struggling with a large number of PAP issues. And a large number of other issues that directly affect your PAP struggles. In your case, noise sensitivity was/is most likely NOT just caused by OSA arousals.

Regarding the point you made, I will have to think about that. Several years ago, I did seem to be waking up prematurely to ambien noise coming from my neighbors that wasn't that noisy. But I thought being on psych meds was the culprit since they messed up my sleep but maybe not?

As you know and continue to point out to people, psych meds have a profound and sometimes very negative affect on the sleep. If the psych meds were triggering spontaneous arousals, then the psych meds could easily explain the additional noise sensitivity. And it seems to me that it is entirely possible for the psych meds to affect the arousal threshold and hence cause additional spontaneous arousals that would not otherwise be there.

Anyway, the idea wasn't obviously simple to me:) so that is why I asked.

As I said before, obvious and simple are not the same thing. Something that's simple might not be obvious at all until it's pointed out. And something that's obvious may very well not be simple.

Another reason I was curious was sleep apnea has been linked to hearing loss which I have and had blamed on being on a psych med. And since hearing loss makes a person more sensitive to noise, that was another reason I was curious about what Oh Help Me said.

I have not read that OSA has been linked to hearing loss, but it is an intriguing idea. I'd be very interested in a link. It won't surprise me if OSA has been linked to hearing loss, but that is not an obvious connection to me: We don't see hoards of people on here talking about their hearing loss and its connections to their OSA or PAP therapy; we do see hoards of people talking about their weight issues and how/if it affects their OSA and PAP therapy.

So could you post a link?

[49er]

Thanks for the helpful clarification robysue. You're right, we do interpret posts based on our experiences and it may not be what the OP experienced.

Here is a link on hearing loss and OS:

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/20 ... 152949.htm

For various reasons, I don't think mine is linked to OS but I don't want to elaborate or this thread will be way off topic.

Actually, I think it is noise that I have always been very sensitive to regarding getting to sleep. As a kid, I always was asking my parents to turn down the TV.

Your case may well be different from the OP's. There are a lot of things that can cause sensitivity to noise and problems getting to sleep. And if you've got both problems, well, they are likely to aggravate each other. Noise, including TV noise if the volume is even slightly too high, is one of my migraine triggers. And sensory overload at bedtime has always caused problems with me being able to get to sleep---even as a very young child.

But the OP did not say she had always been super sensitive to noise when trying to get to sleep. If so, then how did she sleep with hubby's presumed snoring? She simply said the noise of the CPAP was keeping her awake.

We all read in different things into statements like this and what we read in is often based on our own particular experiences.

I tend to take statements at face value. If the OP didn't mention "noise issues" in general, then it's the CPAP noise that's new that's the problem, and not a bigger problem with noise in general. When someone else mentioned that the OP might have untreated OSA, and another poster asked why that's a potential reason for the OP's sensitivity to noise, I posted a generic, straightforward explanation that does not take into account a number of possible medical issues in the background that have not been mentioned.

Now that I am very sleep deprived because of my pap therapy adjustment issues, noise does not unfortunately keep me awake even though many times, I have tried using it so I don't fall asleep prematurely.

I know you are struggling with a large number of PAP issues. And a large number of other issues that directly affect your PAP struggles. In your case, noise sensitivity was/is most likely NOT just caused by OSA arousals.

Regarding the point you made, I will have to think about that. Several years ago, I did seem to be waking up prematurely to ambien noise coming from my neighbors that wasn't that noisy. But I thought being on psych meds was the culprit since they messed up my sleep but maybe not?

As you know and continue to point out to people, psych meds have a profound and sometimes very negative affect on the sleep. If the psych meds were triggering spontaneous arousals, then the psych meds could easily explain the additional noise sensitivity. And it seems to me that it is entirely possible for the psych meds to affect the arousal threshold and hence cause additional spontaneous arousals that would not otherwise be there.

Anyway, the idea wasn't obviously simple to me:) so that is why I asked.

As I said before, obvious and simple are not the same thing. Something that's simple might not be obvious at all until it's pointed out. And something that's obvious may very well not be simple.

Another reason I was curious was sleep apnea has been linked to hearing loss which I have and had blamed on being on a psych med. And since hearing loss makes a person more sensitive to noise, that was another reason I was curious about what Oh Help Me said.

I have not read that OSA has been linked to hearing loss, but it is an intriguing idea. I'd be very interested in a link. It won't surprise me if OSA has been linked to hearing loss, but that is not an obvious connection to me: We don't see hoards of people on here talking about their hearing loss and its connections to their OSA or PAP therapy; we do see hoards of people talking about their weight issues and how/if it affects their OSA and PAP therapy.

So could you post a link?

[Nick Danger]

Why are some of us attacking someone who came to us asking for help? Nothing is accomplished by that other than making yourself look petty. We don't know what kind of machine and mask are involved. A leaky mask could make a louder noise than the typical air conditioner - especially if it is less than a foot from your ears. The new xPAP machines are pretty quiet, but the old ones were quite loud. A number of people have made excellent suggestions: figuring out the source of the noise, then moving the machine if it is the xPAP or changing/modifying the mask if it is the mask; getting custom earplugs; getting lightweight noise cancelling headphones; getting a white noise machine; and (a last result) having separate beds or bedrooms. I would add that if the source of the noise is the hose (unlikely for reasons mentioned above), then a hose muffler can serve the dual purpose of avoiding rainout and quieting the hose sounds.

[archangle]

I am ready to tell him to sleep somewhere else.

Suck it up buttercup!

You have the problem, you go sleep on the couch.

You poor, poor thing. People all over the world live with noisy neighbors, train tracks, airports, noisy animals, traffic sounds, noisy air conditioning and heating, snoring spouses, etc.

It's bad enough adjusting to CPAP. Many people give up on CPAP even without a whiny wife blaming him for the noise. How happy are you going to be if he gives up on CPAP because of you and then ends up dead or worse?



However, we'll be glad to offer advice on how to deal with it. Especially technical advice on how to make it quieter.

[archangle]

Why are some of us attacking someone who came to us asking for help?

Someone needs to slap her out of her attitude that minor inconvenience for her is more important than her husband's health. Making him sleep somewhere else makes it that much more difficult for him to adjust. Many apneacs give up on CPAP and die.

This is life saving therapy, not some minor peccadillo like watching TV in bed.

[49er]

Archangle,

The wife said in her initial post,

Now before you blast me, I have been supportive. I have tried earplugs, but after wearing them for 8 hours my ears hurt. After wearing them each night for 2 weeks despite the pain, I am having trouble hearing normal conversation. I have tried every type of ear plug that is available in the stores.

I have tried turning on a fan, but then the noise of the fan and the sleep apnea machine combine to keep me awake

This sounds like someone who has tried real hard to suck it up to no avail. I think she should be given credit for trying.

Has it ever occurred to you and others that if she didn't care about solving the problem, she wouldn't have come to the board for help? I actually think it took alot of courage knowing the negative reactions she probably knew she was going to get.

I do agree that if separate bedrooms are necessary, she should be the one to move for the reasons that robysue outlined.

By the way, I know we have had this conversation before but some people are quite sensitive to noise and don't adapt. Just because some people can, doesn't mean everything can do it and it has nothing to do with sucking it up. Hopefully, the wife can adjust with the help of this board.

49er

I am ready to tell him to sleep somewhere else.

Suck it up buttercup!

You have the problem, you go sleep on the couch.

You poor, poor thing. People all over the world live with noisy neighbors, train tracks, airports, noisy animals, traffic sounds, noisy air conditioning and heating, snoring spouses, etc.

It's bad enough adjusting to CPAP. Many people give up on CPAP even without a whiny wife blaming him for the noise. How happy are you going to be if he gives up on CPAP because of you and then ends up dead or worse?



However, we'll be glad to offer advice on how to deal with it. Especially technical advice on how to make it quieter.

[robysue]

Why are some of us attacking someone who came to us asking for help?

The OP has been given a number of good suggestions. And most are from people who have NOT made any comments at all on the OP's statement:

I am ready to tell him to sleep somewhere else.

But that statement DOES touch a very sensitive nerve in many of us. Many of us, including me, had very long and difficult adjustments to PAP therapy. And the idea of a spouse kicking a new paper out of the new paper's bed because the machine is making too much noise for the spouse to sleep touches a very raw nerve. The wife is complaining about the CPAP noise and is ready to kick hubby out of the bedroom, but what does she think about what hubby himself is going through? If the noise is bothering her, chances are he's in a lot more misery than she is. Because he's the one dealing with the leaks (if that's the problem), the constant magnification of his own breathing, the dry mouth (if mouth leaks are causing the noise), the face farts (if he's using a FFM at high pressure and that's causing the noise), and all the other CPAP related discomfort issues. And he can't just get up and go into the other room and get away from the irritating, damn machine: No, if he has to leave the bedroom at the wife's insistence, he has to pack the dang thing up and lug it with him.

Support from one's spouse is critical in making this therapy work. And the OP does want to be supportive. And OP has tried to be supportive. But it's hard enough to have to deal with learning how to sleep with a g*d*m hose on your nose to begin with. And having your spouse insist that you leave your bed and go learn how to CPAP in a different room adds substantially to that misery. So if the wife really can't stand the noise any more and nothing else works, she should be the one to leave the current bedroom.

[palerider]

I am ready to tell him to sleep somewhere else.

Suck it up buttercup!

sweet as always... ain'tcha

[archangle]

Archangle,

The wife said in her initial post,
....

Making him sleep in the other room could kill him.

Grow up people! Enough people die already because they give up on CPAP. The wife kicking him out of the bedroom is a big psychological impact. It makes him feel unloved. It stresses the relationship. He doesn't need this at a time when he's making a difficult decision that is literally a matter of life and death.

Telling him to sleep in the other room makes it a lot more likely he'll give up, putting his life in danger.

For that matter, even going into another room to sleep yourself probably makes him more likely to give up, but it's probably less emotional than kicking him out and making it his fault.

[archangle]

sweet as always... ain'tcha

Tough love.

How do you think she'll feel if he gives up on CPAP and then dies of something that might be due to untreated apnea?