Hi everyone:
Just a couple of quick questions from a rookie:
1) I've been using my machine for two months now. Should I be cleaning out the humidifier tank, frequently? Last night, before using it, I sprayed it on the inside with the cleaner I use for my mask, and gave it a good rinsing. This is the first time I did this since I've had the machine. Should I be doing this more often?
2) Usually a tank of water lasts me 3 nights. Should I be putting in new water (I use water from our reverse osmosis system) every day?
Thanks for any info you can offer.
Steve.
Care of humidifier tank
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northernlights
- Posts: 37
- Joined: Thu Jun 29, 2006 10:36 am
- Location: Thornhill, Ontario
Care of humidifier tank
"The longest journey begins with one step."
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MandoJohnny
- Posts: 305
- Joined: Sun Apr 23, 2006 11:23 am
- Location: St Louis, Missouri
Manufacturer's Recommendations
I follow a hybrid of the manufacturer's recomendations and my DME's recommendations. I change the water every day, even though that means throwing some out. I always use distilled water and it's not that expensive. BTW, I think it is funny that it's cheaper than bottled drinking water, like Dansani or Aquafina, even though the distilled water has to have more processing! I figure the water in the tank, even though it is distilled water, is always a medium for bacteria growth and the water in the tank has had room air blown over the top of it all night long.
Once a week, I take everything apart. Then I wash it all, including the humidifier tank and any removable seals, in warm soapy water. I rinse in cold water and let everything air dry. That may all be overkill, but I don't mind doing it.
Once a week, I take everything apart. Then I wash it all, including the humidifier tank and any removable seals, in warm soapy water. I rinse in cold water and let everything air dry. That may all be overkill, but I don't mind doing it.
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Guest
Steve,
You'll probably get quite a few replies as to what people do. Everyone has they're own particular ways. But the most important thing everybody mostly agrees on is to use distilled water. I too am able to get 3 nights on a fill up. Then I rinse it out with hot water and air dry it. Once a week I fill it with a few drops of baby shampoo and a little vinegar & hot water, shake, let sit for 10-15 minutes, rinse well and air dry. I don't take the humidifier apart as some people do, I'm afraid of breaking it.
You'll probably get quite a few replies as to what people do. Everyone has they're own particular ways. But the most important thing everybody mostly agrees on is to use distilled water. I too am able to get 3 nights on a fill up. Then I rinse it out with hot water and air dry it. Once a week I fill it with a few drops of baby shampoo and a little vinegar & hot water, shake, let sit for 10-15 minutes, rinse well and air dry. I don't take the humidifier apart as some people do, I'm afraid of breaking it.
Forgot to log in again,
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Bonnie
"People who say they slept like a baby apparently never had one"
"People who say they slept like a baby apparently never had one"
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rested gal
- Posts: 12881
- Joined: Thu Sep 09, 2004 10:14 pm
- Location: Tennessee
I just keep adding more distilled water. I don't even remove the tank to do that on the integrated humidifiers for the Respironics' machines I've used, or with the separate Fisher & Paykel humidifier I use with my PB 420E. I use a funnel to pour the distilled water into the chamber, bringing it back up to the fill line each night.
Every three or four months, even though the inside of the tank still looks crystal clear, I'll remove the chamber, dump the water out, use a vinegar/water solution in the water chamber to let the inside soak for a hour or so, rinse, and start all over again with my usual "topping off".
Been doing it that way for almost three years with no problems...so far.
Every three or four months, even though the inside of the tank still looks crystal clear, I'll remove the chamber, dump the water out, use a vinegar/water solution in the water chamber to let the inside soak for a hour or so, rinse, and start all over again with my usual "topping off".
Been doing it that way for almost three years with no problems...so far.
Hi everyone,
I disconnect the integrated humidifier from the PB GoodKnight 425 and my hose/mask each morning. I hang the mask up to let it dry out during the day.
I have a two gallon container of distilled water that I got from WalMart that sits on the shelf in my closet. I take the humidifier over to the container and hold it up to the container's faucet. With just a touch I can top offl the humidifier in a matter of a few seconds without the inconvenience of getting a jug/pitcher/funnel, etc.
Once a week, I take the humidifier apart and put it in the dishwasher.
Lowell
I disconnect the integrated humidifier from the PB GoodKnight 425 and my hose/mask each morning. I hang the mask up to let it dry out during the day.
I have a two gallon container of distilled water that I got from WalMart that sits on the shelf in my closet. I take the humidifier over to the container and hold it up to the container's faucet. With just a touch I can top offl the humidifier in a matter of a few seconds without the inconvenience of getting a jug/pitcher/funnel, etc.
Once a week, I take the humidifier apart and put it in the dishwasher.
Lowell
bbeck4x4 wrote
Probably the most significant difference between RO and distilled water is that distillation removes dissolved solids in the water. RO reduces them. The humidification process that occurs in your CPAP system is a slower form of distillation in that almost anything in the water gets left behind. Minerals and bacteria get left behind. VOC's would get evaporated and recondensed or you would breath them in-so don't use rocket fuel in your humidifier chamber. It is the dissolved minerals that get left behind that can crust in your humidifier. IMO-in this case distilled is better because nno mineral are left after the water evaporates.
It is a very extreme bacteria that can exist in distilled water or RO water. There just are not enough organic materials in either for bacteria. There are bacteria that can live in distilled water-but you would have a hard time getting them into your tank unless you do research with extreme organisms and bring some home with you. But even if you have bacteria in the water it can't travel on the water molecule produced by evaporation. Again they get left behind. Once in a while the perfect set of circumstances could occur that would allow something to to grow in the CPAP humidification system of one of the thousands of people using CPAP and somehow get into the nasal passages/lungs in sufficient numbers. Even then the person using that system has to be susceptible. Just clean out your system once in a while and you won't be that person. How often to clean-no one knows because it just doesn't happen often enough to get any statistics.
Distilled water remains the choice for "purity" in laboratories. RO tastes better in that it contains more minerals. Distilled is lower in pathogenic organisms (germs). Both have few VOC's. A distilled water system set up to get rid of VOC's first then collect the water would produce the purest water.FYI, Reverse Osmosis water is more pure than Distilled, not that Distilled water is bad just RO is better
Probably the most significant difference between RO and distilled water is that distillation removes dissolved solids in the water. RO reduces them. The humidification process that occurs in your CPAP system is a slower form of distillation in that almost anything in the water gets left behind. Minerals and bacteria get left behind. VOC's would get evaporated and recondensed or you would breath them in-so don't use rocket fuel in your humidifier chamber. It is the dissolved minerals that get left behind that can crust in your humidifier. IMO-in this case distilled is better because nno mineral are left after the water evaporates.
It is a very extreme bacteria that can exist in distilled water or RO water. There just are not enough organic materials in either for bacteria. There are bacteria that can live in distilled water-but you would have a hard time getting them into your tank unless you do research with extreme organisms and bring some home with you. But even if you have bacteria in the water it can't travel on the water molecule produced by evaporation. Again they get left behind. Once in a while the perfect set of circumstances could occur that would allow something to to grow in the CPAP humidification system of one of the thousands of people using CPAP and somehow get into the nasal passages/lungs in sufficient numbers. Even then the person using that system has to be susceptible. Just clean out your system once in a while and you won't be that person. How often to clean-no one knows because it just doesn't happen often enough to get any statistics.
Faced with the choice between changing one's mind and proving that there is no need to do so, almost everyone gets busy on the proof.....Galbraith's Law
If I used any type of water with any mineral content, I would empty and rinse it out at least once a week and a proper cleaning about once a month. No science or manufactor-based reasoning behind the once a month. It's just what I feel comfortable with.
I use distilled water, so I usually just keep topping it up until I clean it, making sure I rinse it completely with distilled water before drying. I use the distilled water like that because the local tap water here is heavily chlorinated (smells like it, anyway) and has a lot of minerals including a lot of iron (and iron rust.) Even if it didn't smell of chlorine, I couldn't use the tap water in my humidifier since I occasionally forget to refill and it sometimes dries out while it's on.
As a side note, I have fairly bad allergies, and the CPAP does a pretty good job of keeping me congestion-free when I use it, so I assume there's little or no dust getting through the filter or anything growing in there.
I use distilled water, so I usually just keep topping it up until I clean it, making sure I rinse it completely with distilled water before drying. I use the distilled water like that because the local tap water here is heavily chlorinated (smells like it, anyway) and has a lot of minerals including a lot of iron (and iron rust.) Even if it didn't smell of chlorine, I couldn't use the tap water in my humidifier since I occasionally forget to refill and it sometimes dries out while it's on.
As a side note, I have fairly bad allergies, and the CPAP does a pretty good job of keeping me congestion-free when I use it, so I assume there's little or no dust getting through the filter or anything growing in there.
Gained lasting notoriety for snoring at age four. Finally went to a sleep lab on June 23, 2005. Using CPAP since August 18, 2005.
If I was really concerned I would throw a DI resin cartridge at the end, the unit that I have also has two carbon prefilters, and a post carbon filter. my TDS is below 20 ppm(checked about two months ago),
I'm not sure what the TDS of distilled water is, probably zero considering how it is made, RO is low enough for me, thats for sure, my salt water reef uses about 2 gallons a day in evaporation, so for me filling a jug of ro is easier than going to the store and purchasing somthing extra.
as for the purity in labs, not sure I'll check with my chemist buddy and see what his reply is, though he has said in the past that the lab he works for uses RO for there tests.
Brian
I'm not sure what the TDS of distilled water is, probably zero considering how it is made, RO is low enough for me, thats for sure, my salt water reef uses about 2 gallons a day in evaporation, so for me filling a jug of ro is easier than going to the store and purchasing somthing extra.
as for the purity in labs, not sure I'll check with my chemist buddy and see what his reply is, though he has said in the past that the lab he works for uses RO for there tests.
Brian
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birdiebaby
- Posts: 137
- Joined: Tue Apr 18, 2006 9:34 pm
My doctor was adamant about keeping the humidifier clean on a daily basis. He is a CPAP user (and a bit of an oddball to boot, but then again, I wear a mask attached to a hose, too ), and he said that the molds that might grow could be dangerous. I'm also highly allergic to molds.
bbeck4x4 -- What's a DI resin cartridge?
bbeck4x4 -- What's a DI resin cartridge?
DI will take the water down to more than the 98%+ range but it becomes very aggressive at that point, (meaning it tends to attract things to it, but we are way off on a tangent at this point anyway )
here is more info than you probably wanted so read what you like, the good thing is that it makes a decent quality water in your home for many purposes, without the worry of little things like giardia getting through and most all bacteria's are waaaay larger than .5 microns.
(info on RO pulled from http://www.reefcentral.com)
Do I need a DI stage?
You can save some money by purchasing a three-stage filter lacking the DI stage. Reverse osmosis typically removes 90-98% of all the impurities of note. If that is good enough for your purposes, then the DI stage is not necessary. RO filtration by itself is certainly better than plain tap water and in many cases is perfectly adequate.
RO filtration by itself is not adequate if your tap water contains undesirable elements that need to be reduced by more than 90-98%. For example, if there is 10 PPM of phosphates in your tap water, reducing it by 90% takes it to 1 PPM, which is still too high.
To save money up front, a DI stage can be easily added to the system at a later date.
more on RO below(skip if you like)
What is RO/DI?
RO/DI stands for Reverse Osmosis and Deionization. The product is a multi-stage water filter, which takes ordinary tap water in and produces highly purified water.
Why do I need it?
Tap water often contains impurities that can cause problems when added to an aquarium. These may include phosphates, nitrates, chlorine, and various heavy metals. Phosphates and nitrates can cause algae blooms. Copper is often present in tap water due to leaching from pipes and is highly toxic to invertebrates. A RO/DI filter removes practically all of these impurities.
How does it work?
There are typically four stages in an RO/DI filter: sediment filter, carbon block, reverse osmosis membrane, and deionization resin. If there are less than four stages, something was left out (typically the DI stage). If there are more, something was duplicated.
The sediment filter, typically a foam block, removes particles from the water. Its purpose is to prevent clogging of the carbon block and RO membrane. Good sediment filters will remove particles down to one micron or smaller.
The carbon, typically a block of powdered activated carbon, filters out smaller particles (often down to 1/2 micron or smaller), adsorbs some dissolved compounds, and deactivates chlorine. The latter is the most important part: free chlorine in the water will destroy the RO membrane.
The RO membrane is a semi-permeable thin film. Water is forced through it under pressure. Molecules which are larger/heavier than water (which is very small/light) penetrate the membrane less easily and tend to be left behind.
The DI resin exchanges the remaining ions, removing them from the solution.
What is a TDS meter and do I need one?
A TDS (Total Dissolved Solids) meter measures the conductivity of the water, which is an indication of water purity. Without one, it's difficult to tell how well the RO/DI unit is working.
Read your tap water first. Readings in the 50-500 PPM range are typical for most households. The RO output should be less than 10% of the tap water. The DI reading should be 0 or 1. For example, if your tap water reads 200, the RO output should be less than 20 and the DI output should be 0 or 1.
Always let the unit run for a few minutes before measuring TDS on the output. The first half-gallon or so will normally have an elevated reading. That's because impurities will equalize across the RO membrane over time when the unit is idle.
New RO/DI units may need to be thoroughly flushed out before reading the TDS values. Let the manufacturer's instructions be your guide.
Note that TDS is not a good measure of water quality. It's entirely possible to have perfectly good water with a reading of 500 and toxic water with a reading of 50. Also note that some impurities don't register. The purpose of the TDS meter is to measure the efficiency of the RO/DI unit, not cast judgement on your water.
here is more info than you probably wanted so read what you like, the good thing is that it makes a decent quality water in your home for many purposes, without the worry of little things like giardia getting through and most all bacteria's are waaaay larger than .5 microns.
(info on RO pulled from http://www.reefcentral.com)
Do I need a DI stage?
You can save some money by purchasing a three-stage filter lacking the DI stage. Reverse osmosis typically removes 90-98% of all the impurities of note. If that is good enough for your purposes, then the DI stage is not necessary. RO filtration by itself is certainly better than plain tap water and in many cases is perfectly adequate.
RO filtration by itself is not adequate if your tap water contains undesirable elements that need to be reduced by more than 90-98%. For example, if there is 10 PPM of phosphates in your tap water, reducing it by 90% takes it to 1 PPM, which is still too high.
To save money up front, a DI stage can be easily added to the system at a later date.
more on RO below(skip if you like)
What is RO/DI?
RO/DI stands for Reverse Osmosis and Deionization. The product is a multi-stage water filter, which takes ordinary tap water in and produces highly purified water.
Why do I need it?
Tap water often contains impurities that can cause problems when added to an aquarium. These may include phosphates, nitrates, chlorine, and various heavy metals. Phosphates and nitrates can cause algae blooms. Copper is often present in tap water due to leaching from pipes and is highly toxic to invertebrates. A RO/DI filter removes practically all of these impurities.
How does it work?
There are typically four stages in an RO/DI filter: sediment filter, carbon block, reverse osmosis membrane, and deionization resin. If there are less than four stages, something was left out (typically the DI stage). If there are more, something was duplicated.
The sediment filter, typically a foam block, removes particles from the water. Its purpose is to prevent clogging of the carbon block and RO membrane. Good sediment filters will remove particles down to one micron or smaller.
The carbon, typically a block of powdered activated carbon, filters out smaller particles (often down to 1/2 micron or smaller), adsorbs some dissolved compounds, and deactivates chlorine. The latter is the most important part: free chlorine in the water will destroy the RO membrane.
The RO membrane is a semi-permeable thin film. Water is forced through it under pressure. Molecules which are larger/heavier than water (which is very small/light) penetrate the membrane less easily and tend to be left behind.
The DI resin exchanges the remaining ions, removing them from the solution.
What is a TDS meter and do I need one?
A TDS (Total Dissolved Solids) meter measures the conductivity of the water, which is an indication of water purity. Without one, it's difficult to tell how well the RO/DI unit is working.
Read your tap water first. Readings in the 50-500 PPM range are typical for most households. The RO output should be less than 10% of the tap water. The DI reading should be 0 or 1. For example, if your tap water reads 200, the RO output should be less than 20 and the DI output should be 0 or 1.
Always let the unit run for a few minutes before measuring TDS on the output. The first half-gallon or so will normally have an elevated reading. That's because impurities will equalize across the RO membrane over time when the unit is idle.
New RO/DI units may need to be thoroughly flushed out before reading the TDS values. Let the manufacturer's instructions be your guide.
Note that TDS is not a good measure of water quality. It's entirely possible to have perfectly good water with a reading of 500 and toxic water with a reading of 50. Also note that some impurities don't register. The purpose of the TDS meter is to measure the efficiency of the RO/DI unit, not cast judgement on your water.
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Darth Vader Look
- Posts: 411
- Joined: Fri Dec 30, 2005 3:15 am
I know this is a little off topic but where mineral count is high they usually run the water through a softener first because the minerals play havoc with the RO membrane requiring replacement quite often. My taste buds are such that I can still get a small salty taste to the RO water we buy to drink. I would be interested in what you have to say on any of this bbeck4x4 .
Darth Vader Look wrote:I know this is a little off topic but where mineral count is high they usually run the water through a softener first because the minerals play havoc with the RO membrane requiring replacement quite often. My taste buds are such that I can still get a small salty taste to the RO water we buy to drink. I would be interested in what you have to say on any of this bbeck4x4 .
I used to have this unit hooked up to a soft water softener, and the first set of filters lasted 3 years, without the filters are being replaced yearly, but I am now drawing much more water because of the reef tank, before it was used for a ice cube maker and drinking water in the kitchen.
I'm not sure that the membrane would get harmed by not using soft water first, they do make a backwash unit for RO membranes to help clean them out,(never used myself), as far as salt getting through, I would suspect a defect in the membrane as IMHO the salt ion is larger than the .5 micron that a RO will let pass.
But we are way outside of any expertise that I have on RO water, I researched it, it's great for my drinking water, and of 'course the fish tank needs it. so for me it was easy for me to use for the humidifier tank.