Another Newbie Seeking Advice

[SleepyKry]

I just recently completed my second sleep study needed to get a machine. I used the DME suggested by my doctor. I assumed I was going to be given some choice on hardware during their visit, but the rep only had one machine. I was given an F&P Icon+ Novo. My health care provider requires a 13 month rent to own which conveniently allows them to get two full deductibles for one machine. So when all is said and done I will be paying around 1200 for this machine(located in US, low deductible insurance). I'm not sure if this is common practice, but i sure feel like I'm being ripped off.

I started browsing this forum prior to getting the machine so I understood some have accessible data. Being in database administration and reporting for my day job I was excited to see what it would tell me. Unfortunately, as many of you know, the Icon+ Novo only provides compliance data. Which leads me to my second question/concern. I'm interested in the ResMed S9, but in reading the product pages on their site I see there are multiple models with not a whole lot of information on the difference between them. Can you point me in the right direction?

As for the F&P Icon+ Novo, I've had it a little over a week and so far the transition hasn't been too bad considering I've been fighting a cold in addition to the new machine. The only problem I have had is discomfort when exhaling and occasionally waking up and taking off the mask in my sleep. My wife usually wakes me and tells me to put it back on, and judging by the SleepyHead data it appears I still have the mask on about 7 hours a nigh. I think the ResMed Easy-Breathe technology will help with the resistance during exhale. Any suggestions would be much appreciated.

[hyperlexis]

That's outrageous. Unless your insurance is paying for this thing at a reduced, contracted rate, I'd say tell them to piss off and return it. This is a cheap, basic, straight CPAP that sells for $475 new. If you truly have to shell out $1,200, out of your own pocket, for this machine, to clear a deductible or something, then I would tell both the DME and your insurer that you don't appreciate being ripped off. You get no value add by using a DME in this case because its not like they are checking your data card to gauge your treatment results -- because this machine doesn't actually track such results. Don't get me wrong, F&P Icons are all great, high-quality machines. But this model they gave you is NOT a $1,200 machine. If you want the top of the line F&P, demand they at least give you the Icon+ Auto which sells online for a bit over $500, new. It at least has data tracking and is automatic.

Terrible how some vendors rip people off like this.

[SleepyKry]

The DME charged me 530 on delivery, now its 101 a month for 12 more months. After my 500 deductible i only pay 20 a month until the new year. I think some of the delivery charge was purchasing the mask and hose. Their receipt is confusing so I need to call and see what the deal is.

[kaiasgram]

Hyperlexis is right. You could have bought that data-barren machine out of pocket from an online retailer for half of what they're charging you. It really is outrageous.

You asked about the ResMed S9 series -- For a fixed pressure CPAP machine the S9 Elite has full treatment efficacy data. (There is another fixed pressure machine in the S9 series called the Escape -- another compliance-only brick, the same as what you have now.)

The S9 Autoset is an auto-adjusting cpap or APAP machine which can adjust the pressure as needed throughout the night, or alternatively can be set to operate in CPAP fixed pressure mode. A lot of folks choose the Autoset because of the option to run in either mode. (The S9 Escape Auto is an APAP machine that does not offer full treatment efficacy data.)

All the ResMed S9's have the EPR (exhale pressure relief).

You also said

My health care provider requires a 13 month rent to own ...

Just to clarify, it's your insurance company and not your doctor (or equipment supplier) that requires the terms of compliance and coverage. You could call your insurance company and get the names of other DMEs that they are contracted with -- you can work with any of them.

This article may be helpful to you since you've only had your machine for a week: http://maskarrayed.wordpress.com/2011/0 ... h-a-brick/

[SleepyKry]

Yes, it was my insurance company that requires it. I called them after setting the appointment and complained/got confirmation. That was before I knew what machine I was getting. Wonder if the DME will refund any of the initial payment.

Edit: That was a good blog post, thanks for pointing it out! It would seem my initial feeling of this company is much like the others described in it.

[Pugsy]

See this thread with particular interest to what Bama Rambler said
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=96687&start=15
Also check your private messages.
The Novo+ isn't a total brick like the Novo without the + was.

[jencat824]

I would suggest you try to return this & purchase the machine you want from cpap.com. They will give you a great price & great service (or so I've heard, my machine came from elsewhere). You are getting took - $1,200 for a Icon is highway robbery! I have an Icon, but I use it as my back-up machine, really don't like it. Long story, but I now have a PR S1 560 (an auto machine). If I could choose what I want rather than what my Dr. wanted, I would have gotten the ResMed S9 Autoset. Sounds like you are going to have to go out of pocket - if you can get that initial payment back from your DME - so I would get the S9 Autoset, a great machine with really good data reporting.

Good luck,
Jen

[SleepyKry]

Thanks for the replies. I spent some time talking to the DME and my insurance company today. Turns out my insurance company only requires rent to own until the purchase price is met, not necessarily 13 months unless that is their contract with this particular DME which they were unable to verify for me. I also went through the bill with the DME to see exactly why it cost me $530 the first month. Come to find out that they charged me $101 for the first months rent on the unit and an additional $272 to purchase (not rent) the humidifier. I don't understand how they can get away with this seeing that the humidifier is built into the machine! I'm going to call tomorrow and ask for a ResMed S9 Auto with the options I want otherwise I'll purchase from CPAP.com myself.

[Janknitz]

Come to find out that they charged me $101 for the first months rent on the unit and an additional $272 to purchase (not rent) the humidifier. I don't understand how they can get away with this seeing that the humidifier is built into the machine! I'm going to call tomorrow and ask for a ResMed S9 Auto with the options I want otherwise I'll purchase from CPAP.com myself.

I wonder what they would have done if you refused the humidifier???

[tortoisegirl]

Be clear that you are requesting a Resmed S9 Autoset (not S9 Escape Auto). There is a separate heated humidifier that attaches to this. You'll also likely want the heated hose (sold separately). Price it all out (get it in writing), double checking if the DME will let the rental period end before the end of the calendar year so you're only out one deductible, and see if it ends up being cheaper than paying out of pocket to go through CPAP.com.

You can try to get info on the insurance's negotiated price for the items, but you may only be able to get the list price from the DME (which is much higher), so it could be tough to compare. For example, if the DME charges $101/month for the rental, the insurance price might be $40/month, and you may only pay 100% up to your deductible, then a percent of that, such as 20%. Oddly enough my DME ran my CPAP as a straight purchase, as my insurance didn't require a rental, although they said I could return it in the first two months and they would re-bill it as a 1 or 2 month rental as applicable. With your $500 deductible, if you have to pay it twice, I see no way that going through a DME would be cheaper.

I would however consider keeping your mask purchase through the DME (if they will let you without purchasing the CPAP through them), assuming they have an exchange policy...often for the first 30 days you can swap out your mask (and only pay your portion of the difference in price if applicable). Although CPAP.com does offer some masks with free return insurance. Or if you really like your mask this could be n/a. I'm a newbie too (about 3 weeks), but once they got the right type of mask for me, I liked the first one just fine enough. Good luck! Best wishes.

[SleepyKry]

Update:

Turns out my insurance company has a policy that requires rent to own up to the purchase price of the machine, and the $101 a month for 13mo was a contract they had with this particular DME. After several phone calls and being very clear that I knew I was being ripped off and knew what I wanted I managed to get a new script for a ResMed S9 (in CPAP mode with original pressure). I was about to purchase out of market with CPAP.com when I found another DME near by that carried the S9 at a very good negotiated price with my insurance provider (they actually take a loss). When all is said and done I should be paying around 50% retail for the S9/humid/heated tube with the original DME returning most of my first payment (takes 2-3 weeks to process??). Let's just hope they bill what they told me they will.

Last night was my third night with the S9. The first two nights I took the mask off in my sleep, but last night I kept it on for 7h. I'm showing 2.71 AHI with 2.14 CA. This is unexpected since my sleep study showed I have obstructive apnea and not central, but it's only the first night with good data.

Thank you all for your advice in getting this straightened out. I'm now on my way to better sleep and geeking out over SleeyHead data