Someone is making a killing on the Hybrid

Issac · Post by **Issac** » Tue Jul 04, 2006 9:13 am

There are bound to be product bashers that haven't tried the product. I only want to hear from someone using it. And I hear it's very good, indeed.
I has a thought that even though people are saying you have 9 possible combinations of sizing. If the pillows can be inserted long or short, each, than that would be 18 possible sizes? Yes? No?

How much does the average full face mask cost? Excluding Resmed's, probably questionalby legal cost controlling price increases. Does it cost 150.00? I would pay 25.00 more for something so innovative and fantastically addressing the biggest problems with masks.

The Hybrid mask comes with 3 pillows that insert long or short. 3 mouth cushions ,also. That is a lot of silicone.

DME_store · Post by **DME_store** » Tue Jul 04, 2006 11:02 am

Issac wrote: How much does the average full face mask cost? Excluding Resmed's, probably questionalby legal cost controlling price increases. Does it cost 150.00? I would pay 25.00 more for something so innovative and fantastically addressing the biggest problems with masks.

The Hybrid mask comes with 3 pillows that insert long or short. 3 mouth cushions ,also. That is a lot of silicone.

Since this product has 4 HCPCS codes, I wouldn't mind paying a little more for it. I just realized that the monthly replacement of oral cushions (A7031) and the 2 pairs of nasal pillows (A7033) is well over $100. So, if my hybrid patients remain compliant (which they now have a better chance than ever), it should be more profitable in the long run.

But the manufacturer isn't selling those accessories separately yet. The rep who took my order over the phone last week didn't know if/when they would be available. Hopefully soon....

Snoredog · Post by **Snoredog** » Tue Jul 04, 2006 12:06 pm

DME_store wrote:
Issac wrote: How much does the average full face mask cost? Excluding Resmed's, probably questionalby legal cost controlling price increases. Does it cost 150.00? I would pay 25.00 more for something so innovative and fantastically addressing the biggest problems with masks.

The Hybrid mask comes with 3 pillows that insert long or short. 3 mouth cushions ,also. That is a lot of silicone.
Since this product has 4 HCPCS codes, I wouldn't mind paying a little more for it. I just realized that the monthly replacement of oral cushions (A7031) and the 2 pairs of nasal pillows (A7033) is well over $100. So, if my hybrid patients remain compliant (which they now have a better chance than ever), it should be more profitable in the long run.

But the manufacturer isn't selling those accessories separately yet. The rep who took my order over the phone last week didn't know if/when they would be available. Hopefully soon....

Since this product has 4 HCPCS codes, I wouldn't mind paying a little more for it.

I'm sure you wouldn't but what you forgot is you are the typical scum DME, the ones we despise here so much.

You take a mask that you receive as "one piece" comes with all the extra pillows and cushions and then charge the patient and insurance for each individual component of it separately ridiculously inflating the price along the way. A $100 mask turns into a $300 mask for you by the time you are done with it. You already admitted you like this mask because it has so many HCPCS bill codes and you can make even MORE profit from it.

You are the type DME when you get a mask in that comes with 3 pillow sizes and 3 cushions in the box, you remove 2 and send the patient home with 1 and that 1 is usually the wrong size and then charge them again to get the size correct. Then if another patient needs a different size you CHARGE for that pillow again when the mask originally came with it. Can you say Patient rip-off? We can.

I think you wondered into the lions den by mistake.

Issac · Post by **Issac** » Tue Jul 04, 2006 12:52 pm

Slow Down, Snoredog.
It doesn't hurt to have a friendly DME on board. That's probably how he gets paid and you can bet everyone who orders the Hybrid knows it comes with 3 pillow and 3 cushions. It's only the most talked about mask in the world right now. I found it doing an international search on some forum over in the UK and the fact that it's being talked about over there tells you how informed customers are now.
I have a question for the DME.
How much does the average full face mask cost? If thye Hybrid is 179.00 or so, how much is the F&P FF or Resmeds FF or the other FF's ? Do they average 150? 160? How much?

Wulfman · Post by **Wulfman** » Tue Jul 04, 2006 1:00 pm

Issac,

A little over a year ago, I was quoted $255 for a UMFF....and they wanted to add another $60 for the headgear. After some hemming and hawing, the said they MIGHT include the head gear for the $255 price.....this was after I pulled up the CPAP.COM website in their office and showed them that the whole works could be purchased for $140.

I imagine the typical prices are still around that.

Den

Sleepy-in-AL · Post by **Sleepy-in-AL** » Tue Jul 04, 2006 1:29 pm

For comparison purposes, the following prices are quoted from cpap.com as of the date of this post:

Hybrid: 174.99
Mirage Swift Nasal Pillow: 114.99
Ultra Mirage Full Face: 142.00
ComfortFull 2 Full Face: 89.00
ComfortFull Full Face: 69.99
Hans Rudolph 7600 VIP76 Full Face: 159.00
Mojo Gel Cushion Full Face: 155.00
Fisher & Paykel Flexfit HC431 Full Face: 110.00
Respironics Total Face Mask: 142.00

I personally own 2 different siae Ultra Mirage FF and a Comfort Full and have the hybrid on the way. If the hybrid works as well for me as the reports I've seen, I don't care how it compares to the others price wise because I won't be buying any of the others any more.

Snoredog,
I don't think ALL DMEs are as bad as you make them out to be. DME_STORE is working in the insurance world. They didn't say anything about removing anything from the package or charging extra for it. In the insurance world, there are seperate billing codes for each of these pieces and even the manufacturer's brochure spells them out. Each of these pieces will need to be replaced seperately from time to time. I just hope the manufacturer hasn't adopted the ResMed mentallity that the entire mask needs to be replaced every 3 months or less.

DME_STORE,
Hopefully they will provide replacement parts details soon. I think this should have been required prior to hitting the market.

DME_store · Post by **DME_store** » Tue Jul 04, 2006 3:40 pm

Sleepy-in-AL wrote: Snoredog,
I don't think ALL DMEs are as bad as you make them out to be. DME_STORE is working in the insurance world. They didn't say anything about removing anything from the package or charging extra for it. In the insurance world, there are seperate billing codes for each of these pieces and even the manufacturer's brochure spells them out. Each of these pieces will need to be replaced seperately from time to time. I just hope the manufacturer hasn't adopted the ResMed mentallity that the entire mask needs to be replaced every 3 months or less.

Snoredog,
I could try to rip you to pieces but I won't because you probably had a bad experience with a greedy DME or knew someone who did. I'm not at all thinking of (have never in my 9 years of being in business) done such a thing. There is enough money to be made on the Hybrid using legitimate means because it has such good reimbursement. I initially did not believe when I heard that this Hybrid had been approved for 4 HCPCS codes. The Hudson RCI rep gave me a copy of the DMERC letter stating the approvals. I guess the SADMERC folks must have also been impressed with this Hybrid and decided to get a bit generous

DME_store · Post by **DME_store** » Tue Jul 04, 2006 3:53 pm

Issac wrote: I have a question for the DME.
How much does the average full face mask cost? If thye Hybrid is 179.00 or so, how much is the F&P FF or Resmeds FF or the other FF's ? Do they average 150? 160? How much?

Issac,
First, I did not pay $179 for the Hybrid. I bought 20 on my first order directly from the distributor Hudson RCI and the price was a little over $130. My best guess is that cpap.com and other online retailers also must be buying the Hybrid from Hudson RCI for similar prices and they are pricing it for $175-180 because they have to make money too.

I'm not a big fan of the Resmed UM FF and I only give it if there is a clear script. So, I don't buy enough of them to get a good deal from Resmed. I think I pay around $120. I put out more F&P HC431s and I pay around $110 for that. So, the Hybrid is only about 10-20% more expensive for me ad with the higher resimbursement, it doesn't hurt my pocketbook. I don't think I'll be doing much with the Resmed and F&P masks (particularly the full face) anymore with the advent of the Hybrid.

beneyw · Post by **beneyw** » Tue Jul 04, 2006 5:40 pm

The more I read, the less I understand. Medicare says I can get a new mask after 3 months...enter the Hybrid. Now, my DME says he can only give me the mask but NOT the head gear, Ok, now I have to pay for the head gear which can only be replaced every 6 months. My question is, how did Medicare develop this ridiculous system? What good is a new mask without the head gear? Oh, I know...the new mask every 3 months is predicated on the assumption the first mask you got is the one you will keep. Well, all you 'good' DME's know that is hardly reality.

So, to keep up your 'good work' someone has to tell insurance providers a new mask should mean a new mask with all the parts required to make it work. I would love to know how many people are still using the original mask they got when first diagnosed with sleep apnea. Bottom line, if you can get a new mask after 3 months, it should be THE COMPLETE mask period, IMO.

Sleepy-in-AL · Post by **Sleepy-in-AL** » Tue Jul 04, 2006 8:32 pm

beneyw wrote:The more I read, the less I understand. Medicare says I can get a new mask after 3 months...enter the Hybrid. Now, my DME says he can only give me the mask but NOT the head gear, Ok, now I have to pay for the head gear which can only be replaced every 6 months. My question is, how did Medicare develop this ridiculous system? What good is a new mask without the head gear? Oh, I know...the new mask every 3 months is predicated on the assumption the first mask you got is the one you will keep. Well, all you 'good' DME's know that is hardly reality.

So, to keep up your 'good work' someone has to tell insurance providers a new mask should mean a new mask with all the parts required to make it work. I would love to know how many people are still using the original mask they got when first diagnosed with sleep apnea. Bottom line, if you can get a new mask after 3 months, it should be THE COMPLETE mask period, IMO.

I know what you mean. But, someone probably got paid a ridiculous amount of money to do a study that showed that headgear lasts 6 months. As if the hard plastic shell of a mask doesn't??

Anyway, it could be worse. My insurance companies policy is "replace as medicall necessary." They won't define exactly what that means and won't make an "official" decision until a claim is made. However, they did say that I need a prescription for every little piece that is claimed. So, if I want to get reimbursed for pollen filters, I need a prescription. Thanks, I'll pay for them myself.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Wed Jul 05, 2006 6:57 am

tooly125 wrote:
Sleepy-in-AL wrote: I think its been a while (if ever) that there has been a firestorm like this in the cpap mask sales market. I'm not sure the manufacturer was completely prepared for the response.
Lesson for Resmed:
If you come up with a new inovative product people will buy it even though the cost may be high.
If you just raise the price of your old stuff people will get pissed off and stop buying from you.

torontogal · Post by **torontogal** » Wed Jul 05, 2006 5:20 pm

My DME in Toronto today quoted me 290 Canadian dollars for the Hybrid and said the earliest he will have it available would be late July/early August. I'm probably better off buying it on cpap.com!

Darth Vader Look · Post by **Darth Vader Look** » Wed Jul 05, 2006 11:45 pm

torontogal wrote:My DME in Toronto today quoted me 290 Canadian dollars for the Hybrid and said the earliest he will have it available would be late July/early August. I'm probably better off buying it on cpap.com!

If you do order online from the USA remember that there is no PST/GST on medical devices coming into Ontario. The shipping companies like UPS, Fedx, etc. will put that in even though they should know better. Expect to pay around $35 in brokerage fees. Since the order is over $100 dollars ask about free shipping. There are other online sites that may match cpap.com prices that are closer to Ontario, just make sure they have a good reputation or stick with cpap.com.

roztom · Post by **roztom** » Thu Jul 06, 2006 3:24 pm

I don't really see what all the fuss is about the price of the Hybrid.

You can get a mask that doesn't work for you, I got the UMFFM, $142., it leaks into my eyes - useless. OR spend $35. extra for something that works.

Of course, the Hybrid probably won't work for everyone - no mask does (so far) but the real cost, IMHO, is the difference between what you use now say UMFF and Hybrid. About $35

No one would invest in a Hybrid if what they are using now was a "perfect" solution.

We all want the best sleep and comfort possible..considering we sleep with these things every night - it seems like a small cost to bear in the scheme of things.

Heck a tank of gas is $60 -$70 and how far does that get you? Two to three tanks of gas and you got a potential solution for your xPAP comfort.

Let's support innovation !! Masks are like the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow. It's elusive and maybe unattainable but something worth pursuing.

I'd love to finally get a full nights sleep without leaks or occasional mouth breathing. I need to believe in rainbows.

Best,

Tom

Nightowl · Post by **Nightowl** » Thu Jul 06, 2006 7:44 pm

The main RT at my local Apria branch (she happens to be my cousin) told me that in a phone conference they had yesterday morning, a bunch of RTs at several branches complained that they are being hit with requests for the Hybrid but they can't offer it. So, Apria assured them that it would be addressed immediately and they would be able to stock it.

Finally, somebody got Apria to listen to patient needs!

Someone is making a killing on the Hybrid

Re: Someone is making a killing on the Hybrid

Hybrid at Apria!

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Additional Comments: Pressure MinE 11 MaxI 17.5

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Additional Comments: Pressure MinE 11 MaxI 17.5