How Long Do Machines Really Last?

[Drowsy Dancer]

I am aware of private insurance/Medicare guidelines for machine replacement.

Second Wind CPAP's website states (without attribution): " The average life expectancy of a CPAP or BIPAP machine is approximately 20,000 hours."

Old thread from another board: http://www.apneasupport.org/how-long-do ... t8124.html

I am interested in anecdata about how long people have actually made their machines last.

[chronic]

My first one lasted 5 years and was running fine when I packed it away and got my new one which is probably going past 3 years now and doing fine.

[Wulfman...]

I am aware of private insurance/Medicare guidelines for machine replacement.

I am interested in anecdata about how long people have made their machines last.

Some thoughts.........
From my readings on the forum over the years, I've read some pretty high numbers.......like over 20K - 30K hours.
If you take a number like 8 hours per night and multiply times 365, you get somewhere between 2900 and 3000 hours. (I know, it's actually 2920, but nobody actually sleeps the same number of hours every night.)
So, in five years (insurance allowable), you may be looking at roughly 15000 hours.
I really question the longevity of the newer machines compared to the older ones. Somewhere along the way, I think the manufacturers figured out the planned obsolescence, dropped their prices, but added some software improvements.

Personally, I have put over 10000 hours on one of my machines and over 6000 hours one other.......and a few thousand (each or collectively) on some others. My total hours of usage since beginning therapy is around 26000 hours. I've had a tendency to rotate my machines since starting therapy in May of 2005, mostly so I can compare the different firmware on them, even though they're all (10 of them) basically the same machine (Legacy models). But, I do have a couple that are my "favorites".
Other than the very first one, I've never used "insurance" to acquire any of the rest. They were all out-of-pocket. I really like those particular models and I'm hoping they will last me till I'm "planted".

On the other hand, I've seen postings by folks whose machines didn't last them very long. So, I'm a firm believer in having multiple backups.


Den

.

[Stevoreno_55]

My first machine which I acquired from my first DME back in 1999 was a straight CPAP Sullivan unit set to a pressure of 16cm which didn't even have a heated humidifier but it lasted until late 2007. My second and current machine; a Philips Respironics DS400S which is almost 7 years old is beginning to play out. My current DME agreed to ship it off to Philips Respironics last month since I couldn't do it to have it checked out; the DME received a repair estimate back from Philips Respironics 2 weeks ago.

The repair estimate was a page long and the cost to repair my DS400S was over $300.00. I told the DME to tell Philips Respironics thanks but no thanks so I'm waiting to hear back from my doctor who told me on April 09, 2014 when I went to see him to ask him to write me a script for a new machine; he said no to a script for a new machine but he did say he would write me an order for a new two night sleep study. My insurance company told me in February 2014 that I would have to undergo a new sleep study before they would consider paying for a new machine and in their words it would have to be "deemed medically necessary" so I continue to wait and have been waiting since the day I saw my doctor and we discussed it for the first time on April 09, 2014.



Stevoreno_55
MS Gulf Coast
05/04/14

[Drowsy Dancer]

There seems to be very little that one can do to make the machine itself last longer other than (1) not dropping it long distances onto hard surfaces; and (2) changing/cleaning the filters regularly and otherwise not blocking the air intake.

It does seem that CPAPs, like many electronics, failed either very early or quite late in the past, but I don't know if that's still true as the electronics in the machine have grown more complex.

[Drowsy Dancer]

My first machine which I acquired from my first DME back in 1999 was a straight CPAP Sullivan unit set to a pressure of 16cm which didn't even have a heated humidifier but it lasted until late 2007. My second and current machine; a Philips Respironics DS400S which is almost 7 years old is beginning to play out. My current DME agreed to ship it off to Philips Respironics last month since I couldn't do it to have it checked out; the DME received a repair estimate back from Philips Respironics 2 weeks ago.

The repair estimate was a page long and the cost to repair my DS400S was over $300.00. I told the DME to tell Philips Respironics thanks but no thanks so I'm waiting to hear back from my doctor who told me on April 09, 2014 when I went to see him to ask him to write me a script for a new machine; he said no to a script for a new machine but he did say he would write me an order for a new two night sleep study. My insurance company told me in February 2014 that I would have to undergo a new sleep study before they would consider paying for a new machine and in their words it would have to be "deemed medically necessary" so I continue to wait and have been waiting since the day I saw my doctor and we discussed it for the first time on April 09, 2014.



Stevoreno_55
MS Gulf Coast
05/04/14

I saw that on your other thread and I admit I'm a little baffled by the request for a two-night study. I wonder if you couldn't pick up a replacement machine at some place like secondwindcpap or (using caution) Craigslist.

I appreciate hearing about the length of time your machines have lasted.

[Stevoreno_55]

My first machine which I acquired from my first DME back in 1999 was a straight CPAP Sullivan unit set to a pressure of 16cm which didn't even have a heated humidifier but it lasted until late 2007. My second and current machine; a Philips Respironics DS400S which is almost 7 years old is beginning to play out. My current DME agreed to ship it off to Philips Respironics last month since I couldn't do it to have it checked out; the DME received a repair estimate back from Philips Respironics 2 weeks ago.

The repair estimate was a page long and the cost to repair my DS400S was over $300.00. I told the DME to tell Philips Respironics thanks but no thanks so I'm waiting to hear back from my doctor who told me on April 09, 2014 when I went to see him to ask him to write me a script for a new machine; he said no to a script for a new machine but he did say he would write me an order for a new two night sleep study. My insurance company told me in February 2014 that I would have to undergo a new sleep study before they would consider paying for a new machine and in their words it would have to be "deemed medically necessary" so I continue to wait and have been waiting since the day I saw my doctor and we discussed it for the first time on April 09, 2014.



Stevoreno_55
MS Gulf Coast
05/04/14

I saw that on your other thread and I admit I'm a little baffled by the request for a two-night study. I wonder if you couldn't pick up a replacement machine at some place like secondwindcpap or (using caution) Craigslist.

I appreciate hearing about the length of time your machines have lasted.

When I saw the doctor on April 09, 2014 and he asked me about my previous study I told him it was a 2 night study done in late 2007 so he said I'll write you an order for another 2 night study; I said fine. If I'm going to have to do this all over again to get a new machine I'll do it and I would also like to have another 2 night study so the lab can get all the sleep data they need. As for buying a used machine off of Craigslist I've never done that. I'll do another study; it's time for me to have another study and hopefully I'll be able to get a new "smart" machine when it's all over because I will not settle for a "brick".



Stevoreno_55
MS Gulf Coast
05/04/14

[echo]

My 2 puritan bennet 420Es each lasted about 10,000 blower hours or about 3 years. The 2nd one would have gone longer but a stupid plastic piece, critical to its functioning, broke off. Recently I repaired the 1st one - it was a blower problem that magically fixed itself after disassembling and reassembling it - so at the moment that one is actually working fine, but has a strange "dusty" smell coming out of it.

I was hoping to have gotten at least 5 years out of it. :/ Maybe Resmed/Respironics are sturdier.

[Drowsy Dancer]

I read the following statement on a website that I find somewhat dubious for a reason that I will state in a minute:

"Some common issues people experience with CPAP machines are no on/off power, loud blower motors, irregular airflow, random loss of power, flashing error codes or onscreen messages such as “service required”. The number one culprit that is behind those problems is due to excessive moisture damage from heated humidifiers. The premature corrosion will cause havoc on CPAP motors. This damage inevitably leads them to become louder over time and eventually seizing up completely. Even if you do not have a humidifier, years of using a CPAP machine night after night, moving parts (blowers) will wear out regardless. [the last sentence seems legit]"

Elsewhere on the site they offer a $39.95 annual maintenance service for CPAPs (which is why I find the first statement/website dubious):

"As with any high dollar investment, proper maintenance on CPAP equipment is of utmost importance to ensure the longest lifespan possible. Equipment manufactures [sic] highly recommend at least once a year you have your CPAP/ Bilevel machine be checked for proper function and calibration [they do? news to me]. We at ****** offer a full refresh program to ensure your CPAP/ APAP/ Bilevel device is operating at its full potential at a very reasonable cost of only $39.99.

Below is a list of what services are included in the Annual Maintenance Program:

• Full disassembly and inspection.
• Internal dust contamination removal.
• Moisture contamination removal.
• CPAP/ APAP/ BiLevel machine calibration.
• Suggestions for any further servicing if need be."

Here's what the User Manual for my PR System One says:

"Service

The device does not require routine servicing."

[LSAT]

If they were servicing your car they would probably suggest changing the air in you tires.

[StuUnderPressure]

I read the following statement on a website that I find somewhat dubious for a reason that I will state in a minute:

"Some common issues people experience with CPAP machines are no on/off power, loud blower motors, irregular airflow, random loss of power, flashing error codes or onscreen messages such as “service required”. The number one culprit that is behind those problems is due to excessive moisture damage from heated humidifiers. The premature corrosion will cause havoc on CPAP motors. This damage inevitably leads them to become louder over time and eventually seizing up completely. Even if you do not have a humidifier, years of using a CPAP machine night after night, moving parts (blowers) will wear out regardless. [the last sentence seems legit]"

"

The air from the heated humidifier does NOT go THROUGH the machine - so, HOW can it damage the machine?

[StuUnderPressure]

My previous machine is a Respironics tank / brick with a heated humidifier that I use as a backup & for traveling only.

It currently has just over 26,000 hours & is approaching 11 years old.

[Drowsy Dancer]

I read the following statement on a website that I find somewhat dubious for a reason that I will state in a minute:

"Some common issues people experience with CPAP machines are no on/off power, loud blower motors, irregular airflow, random loss of power, flashing error codes or onscreen messages such as “service required”. The number one culprit that is behind those problems is due to excessive moisture damage from heated humidifiers. The premature corrosion will cause havoc on CPAP motors. This damage inevitably leads them to become louder over time and eventually seizing up completely. Even if you do not have a humidifier, years of using a CPAP machine night after night, moving parts (blowers) will wear out regardless. [the last sentence seems legit]"

"

The air from the heated humidifier does NOT go THROUGH the machine - so, HOW can it damage the machine?

I had wondered about that too. Apparently it wafts backwards against the rushing air, much like salmon swimming upstream to spawn.

[StuUnderPressure]

I read the following statement on a website that I find somewhat dubious for a reason that I will state in a minute:

"Some common issues people experience with CPAP machines are no on/off power, loud blower motors, irregular airflow, random loss of power, flashing error codes or onscreen messages such as “service required”. The number one culprit that is behind those problems is due to excessive moisture damage from heated humidifiers. The premature corrosion will cause havoc on CPAP motors. This damage inevitably leads them to become louder over time and eventually seizing up completely. Even if you do not have a humidifier, years of using a CPAP machine night after night, moving parts (blowers) will wear out regardless. [the last sentence seems legit]"

"

The air from the heated humidifier does NOT go THROUGH the machine - so, HOW can it damage the machine?

I had wondered about that too. Apparently it wafts backwards against the rushing air, much like salmon swimming upstream to spawn.

But then the salmon die. Too hard of a job to survive.

The moisture is going to take the path of least resistance - which is AWAY from the machine.

[Guest]

howdy, i'll respond to the allegation that moisture from the humidifier may damage the blower. I think most likely that would occur from transporting or dropping it with water in the tank which then enters the blower section and if not dried properly could damage the assembly?

lotsa good sleep to ya
ken