Sleep Apnea and Atrial Fibrillation are connected

[Todzo]

If an apnea event occurs due to high respiratory control system gain plus CPAP pressure the body responds to too little carbon dioxide in the blood by stopping breathing for a time which allows the carbon dioxide levels to move more toward normal (above the apneic threshold). A common condition associated with the is long term facilitated hyperventilation.

Any time the blood lacks carbon dioxide circulation to the brain and other regions is suppressed. As well oxygen transport from blood cell to hungry cell is frustrated by the Bohr effect. Since a knot in my stomach is one of the symptoms I have found associated with over breathing (hyperventilation) in my own life I have often wondered if our “enteric brain” is affected by hypocapnea in a way similar to our brain perhaps the blood supply and metabolism being suppressed in both. Regardless I know that when I restore eucapnic conditions to my body the knot in the stomach will consistently go away a few minutes later and indeed the stomach will relax and continue digestion.

So perhaps GERD is a consequence of high respiratory control system gain plus the pressure of CPAP.

[Todzo]

I have seen no studies that prove that Obstructive Sleep Apnea (OSA) causes heart conditions. I think there is a general agreement that OSA is associated with heart conditions but the mechanism appears unspecified.

Studies which might look into how mis-managed xPAP therapy might cause heart attack are very unlikely to exist. There would be ethical problems in purposely mis-managing someones therapy. As well, after usability studies showed very bad numbers they mysteriously stopped. I do not think the medical community being so in bed with the manufactures facilitates good research looking into the possible down sides of xPAP therapy.

Whenever a weakness of xPAP is brought up here, for example, shills, trolls, sockpuppets, and astroturfers show up to do damage control.

I do not believe they are likely to look into whether mis-managed xPAP therapy causes damage to the heart.

But for those who could be and perhaps are affected by this simply we need to know!!!!!!!!!!!!

[HoseCrusher]

Lannie, one of the safest, inexpensive, and often effective methods to stimulate the flow of digestive juices prior to eating is to use a vagal response of the tongue to get things going.

In order to stimulate this response you need to just taste something bitter about 10 minutes prior to eating. A good source of something bitter is dandelion leaf. You can break the leaf and just touch it to your tongue. You don't have to eat it, just taste it. If your ground is still covered with snow you may have to go to the store and pick up some bitters. Angostura bitters can be found for around $10 for a 118 ml bottle. All you need is a single drop so a bottle lasts about 6 months. You shake out a drop on your tongue and that's it.

It takes a few weeks to get things moving again so don't expect overnight results. It is an excellent starting place and if it helps great. If it doesn't you can mix up an Old Fashion and add a dash of bitters and sit back and enjoy the sunset...

Beyond this you can also supplement with hydrochloric acid. This can be dangerous, but it is not anywhere near as dangerous as taking a prescription drug, so you need to do it under the observation of a naturopath that understands this therapy. Acids can irritate the esophagus. Too much can give you diarrhea and too little is ineffective. It takes some fiddling around but oral hydrochloric acid therapy has been around since the 1920's with varying degrees of success.

[musculus]

1. Pressure change should always be done gradual and slow, and with careful review of CPAP data.
2. Untreated sleep apnea will lead to a whole lot of health problems, heart injury being one important one.
3. CPAP helps even if you still cannot get great sleep with it. It's much harder to reduce the number of arousal than the number of apnea.

[welshmike]

I stumbled upon this thread while searching for another topic.

My situation supports the subject statement.
I've Congestive Heart Failure and have had Paroxysmal Atrial Fibrillation for at least a couple of years and am convinced that such damage has been caused by my, unsuspected until recently, Obstructive Sleep Apnoea, OSA, over as much as two decades.
My Atrial Fibrillation episodes had occured about every 9 days until recently.
Since my OSA has been controlled, especially by forcing myself to sleep on my right hand side, I have been free of AF for 24 days until 14 April, then another 11 days since 17 April.

Mike
P.S. I believe that the 15 and 16 April AF episode was caused by MonoSodium Glutamate in some snack foods I ate on 14 April especially as I had an AF episode in March after eating Chinese food.
P.P.S, You can see my first message on this forum here viewtopic.php?f=1&t=94329&st=0&sk=t&sd= ... ke#p871402

[Lannie]

If an apnea event occurs due to high respiratory control system gain plus CPAP pressure the body responds to too little carbon dioxide in the blood by stopping breathing for a time which allows the carbon dioxide levels to move more toward normal (above the apneic threshold). A common condition associated with the is long term facilitated hyperventilation.

Any time the blood lacks carbon dioxide circulation to the brain and other regions is suppressed. As well oxygen transport from blood cell to hungry cell is frustrated by the Bohr effect. Since a knot in my stomach is one of the symptoms I have found associated with over breathing (hyperventilation) in my own life I have often wondered if our “enteric brain” is affected by hypocapnea in a way similar to our brain perhaps the blood supply and metabolism being suppressed in both. Regardless I know that when I restore eucapnic conditions to my body the knot in the stomach will consistently go away a few minutes later and indeed the stomach will relax and continue digestion.

So perhaps GERD is a consequence of high respiratory control system gain plus the pressure of CPAP.

Todzo,
I wear a full face mask but am a side sleeper. I change sides often during the night. I am also a mouth breather, and even though I concentrate on keeping my mouth closed it obviously is not staying closed because I end up with very dry mouth. Maybe I am hyperventilating while sleeping with my mouth open because my nose often stuffs up and I have to open mouth to breathe. Possibility. You could be right about sucking in too much air at those times making GERD worse. Thanks for the info.

[Lannie]

I stumbled upon this thread while searching for another topic.

My situation supports the subject statement.
I've Congestive Heart Failure and have had Paroxysmal Atrial Fibrillation for at least a couple of years and am convinced that such damage has been caused by my, unsuspected until recently, Obstructive Sleep Apnoea, OSA, over as much as two decades.
My Atrial Fibrillation episodes had occured about every 9 days until recently.
Since my OSA has been controlled, especially by forcing myself to sleep on my right hand side, I have been free of AF for 24 days until 14 April, then another 11 days since 17 April.

Mike
P.S. I believe that the 15 and 16 April AF episode was caused by MonoSodium Glutamate in some snack foods I ate on 14 April especially as I had an AF episode in March after eating Chinese food.
P.P.S, You can see my first message on this forum here viewtopic.php?f=1&t=94329&st=0&sk=t&sd= ... ke#p871402

Mike,

On the Atrial Fibrillation forums people are also saying they are being told or are suggested to get sleep study and go on cpap therapy. I think all the apneas and hypopneas do take a toll on the heart over time before one gets on cpap therapy. Even Cleveland Clinic and other major hospitals as well as medical journals list sleep apnea as one of the causes of Atrial Fibrillation. Once we are on cpap therapy that former stress on the heart is relieved and A Fibbers do much better. Therefore, I believe you are right. 20 years or more of sleep apnea undiagnosed and untreated probably had a big part in your congested heart failure which is attributed to Atrial Fibrillation being untreated.

[Lannie]

[quote="musculus"]1. Pressure change should always be done gradual and slow, and with careful review of CPAP data.
2. Untreated sleep apnea will lead to a whole lot of health problems, heart injury being one important one.
3. CPAP helps even if you still cannot get great sleep with it. It's much harder to reduce the number of arousal than the number of apnea.[/quote]



Musculus,

Agreed!

[Lannie]

Lannie, one of the safest, inexpensive, and often effective methods to stimulate the flow of digestive juices prior to eating is to use a vagal response of the tongue to get things going.

In order to stimulate this response you need to just taste something bitter about 10 minutes prior to eating. A good source of something bitter is dandelion leaf. You can break the leaf and just touch it to your tongue. You don't have to eat it, just taste it. If your ground is still covered with snow you may have to go to the store and pick up some bitters. Angostura bitters can be found for around $10 for a 118 ml bottle. All you need is a single drop so a bottle lasts about 6 months. You shake out a drop on your tongue and that's it.

It takes a few weeks to get things moving again so don't expect overnight results. It is an excellent starting place and if it helps great. If it doesn't you can mix up an Old Fashion and add a dash of bitters and sit back and enjoy the sunset...

Beyond this you can also supplement with hydrochloric acid. This can be dangerous, but it is not anywhere near as dangerous as taking a prescription drug, so you need to do it under the observation of a naturopath that understands this therapy. Acids can irritate the esophagus. Too much can give you diarrhea and too little is ineffective. It takes some fiddling around but oral hydrochloric acid therapy has been around since the 1920's with varying degrees of success.

HoseCrusher,

Thanks for the information. First, I cannot afford a naturopath but will try the dandelion taste (which is horrible. I remember as a child trying to eat one). I already have acid damage to my esophagus so wouldn't risk anything that might make that worse. I am on protein pump inhibitor but would love it if I didn't need to be.