Tap Pap Rainout Issues

[Kiralynx]

Okay. I've been using -- and liking -- the Tap Pap mask since about March. No hassles once I figured out how to adjust the mouthpiece so my teeth didn't end up sore. (Thanks, Pugsy!)

I use it with my Bipap ASV (five year old model, no longer available) with the heated humidifier set on the lowest setting above pass-over.

Passover humidification does not work for me. I wake up with my sinuses clogged, dry, and sore. It is not a matter of mouth-breathing. My brandy-keg solved that problem years ago.

However, the last month or so, I've begun having minor rainout issues with the Tap Pap. It whistles. On whichever side is up. If I run my finger over the exhaust holes, I can feel a tiny bit of moisture squeezing out the upper row.

The mask whistles. With every exhalation. It wakes me up, and it's very irritating.

I can get rid of the rain out if I do what the mask instructions say -- lower the humidification. For me, that means going to pass-over humidification.

Which does not work for me. Pass-over humidification results in not only the clogged, dry, and sore sinuses mentioned above, I end up with a sinus headache. And a dry, raw throat. My only solution is to get up, sit upright for several hours with a room humidifier blowing at me, and wait for things to re-moisturize.

Well, not the only solution. I said "To heck with it!" last night, and returned to my beloved Headrest, with the humidifier set on low, as always. I slept wonderfully well, with nary a bit of rain out, and no dry throat or sinus issues.

The question is -- why is this happening now with the Tap Pap, after using it for a good eight months with no problems?

[ems]

I don't use the Tap Pap, but after so many months perhaps you need a new mouth piece???

I should also add that after using my mask (Nano) for around 10 weeks, I think I'll have to replace the cushion. It's getting soft and mushy and starting to get annoying.

If you got eight months of use, I think that's quite good.

[SleepyToo2]

Kiralynx, do you use a heated hose? That would stop any moisture condensing there. Even wrapping the main part of the long hose in fleece might help? Maybe you need to raise the temperature of your bedroom? Only other thought is to take that part of the mask and wash it thoroughly - maybe a bit of dust settled in one of the vent holes? I have had a problem with the mask making a noise, but a wipe with a tissue usually gets rid of the problem.

[Janknitz]

That's exactly what's stopping me from trying the Tap Pap.

I had the same issue with other nasal pillow masks. I don't have a heated humidifier on my circa 2011 PRS1 Auto (550), and we don't run our heat at night. So in the winter the room air is COLD (and no, we would not use a space heater to warm the room, we both sleep better in a cold room). Even with cozies on the nasal pillows, the short and long hose, there would be condensation on the pillows themselves because the air from the machine was inevitably colder than my nose, and the condensation drove me BONKERS.

Maybe a heated hose would help? However, I do like the cool air, most of the time.

[Kiralynx]

I don't use the Tap Pap, but after so many months perhaps you need a new mouth piece???

I should also add that after using my mask (Nano) for around 10 weeks, I think I'll have to replace the cushion. It's getting soft and mushy and starting to get annoying.

If you got eight months of use, I think that's quite good.

Actually, I just replaced both the mouthpiece and the cushions, as I was wondering the same thing.

[Kiralynx]

That's exactly what's stopping me from trying the Tap Pap.

Oh, WINTER might stop you, but come spring, definitely try it! I have not had this problem before, with either my Headrest or the Comfortlite 2.

I had the same issue with other nasal pillow masks. I don't have a heated humidifier on my circa 2011 PRS1 Auto (550), and we don't run our heat at night. So in the winter the room air is COLD (and no, we would not use a space heater to warm the room, we both sleep better in a cold room). Even with cozies on the nasal pillows, the short and long hose, there would be condensation on the pillows themselves because the air from the machine was inevitably colder than my nose, and the condensation drove me BONKERS.

Our heat is, I admit, on low, but it has been colder than usual this winter, for New Orleans. I tend to like the room cooler because I am almost always hot when sleeping (and almost always cold when I'm up). But Harry freezes, so I have a bed fan to give me circulating air.

Maybe a heated hose would help? However, I do like the cool air, most of the time.

I thought about a heated hose, but as I'm due for a new machine (just gotta quit procrastinating and go see my GP for a script), and the new machine could have a built in one for an option, I hate to buy a separate one.

Plus, like I said... same conditions, same machine, and the Headrest did not give me a hassle last night.

I am really struggling to find a replacement mask for both the Headrest and the CL2. I cannot, repeat, cannot, tolerate straps on my face. I loathe the Swift FX, which, IMO, is the most worthless piece of junk ever made, and does not give me good therapy. See viewtopic.php?p=611505#p611505 for my adventures with the Swift FX.

I tried the Fisher-Paykel Opus 360, and the straps drove me crazy. Besides the nose piece pressing into the septum, hard. I tinkered and tinkered and tinkered with the straps on that one, going looser and looser and looser until the dang thing fell off my face, and it still hurt.

I have three different full face masks for use when I have a respiratory infection -- Hybrid, Liberty, and Zzz-mask. Liberty was the best of the lot for me, but I still hate full face masks, and will not use one on a regular basis.

The Tap Pap has, to date, been the best mask other than the Headrest or CL2 for me... and the Headrest wins out over the CL2 by a few hairs.

Which makes this problem with rain out a dang nuisance.

[Lazer1234]

Several of the posts above, takes up the cause of your problem. The hose and the mask is cooler than the dew point of the air that blows into cpap. And when it becomes winter so the air can hold less moisture than in summer.
You have to do something of this:
First, use the heated hose. Your problems will be solved. I had the exact same problem, now I run the hose of 4 (1-5).
Turn on the tube sock and isolate TapPap.
Place the tubing under the covers if possible, so the hose is kept warm.
Raise the temperature in the bedroom.
Lower humidification.

My cpap Respironics 560 has climate control, so it automatically adjusts the humidifier to be 70, 80 or 90% reached the mask. Even so, I got rain out in TapPap. But with heated hose the problem disappeared.
You must do what is necessary to solve the problem, because you do not want to go back to the stone age and use someone else mask than TapPap, right?

[SleepyCPAP]

Dear Kiralynx,

When cool weather came to my bedroom I started experiencing the same thing. The heated hose on the PRS1 didn't help, as the humidity can't be set low enough (for me, and it seems for you, something just above pass-over humidification is the preference, not the minimum 70% with heated hose).

I hadn't been doing a daily rinse of my TAP PAP, but after the moisture-in-holes trouble started, I started doing that. And wiping the insides with a cotton swab. That seems to rinse out whatever might help my breath condense into big droplets the next night. It made a big difference most nights, though it did not eliminate the issue completely. Ear plugs also help. If my bedroom seems particularly cool, I've also held the mask in my hands for a moment before putting it on -- that little bit of warmth gets it off to a good start.

--SleepyCPAP

[Mgsnorer]

I love my tap pap, but moisture can accumulate. I think some of it due to the unusual shape of the space near the pillows. If I make sure that the entire hose is below my nose, I get a lot less moisture accumulation in the vent holes. I use very little humidification, I think some of the moisture is from my own breath. Using gravity to have it run away from me helps tremendously. Good luck!

[Kiralynx]

First, use the heated hose. Your problems will be solved. I had the exact same problem, now I run the hose of 4 (1-5). Turn on the tube sock and isolate TapPap. Place the tubing under the covers if possible, so the hose is kept warm. Raise the temperature in the bedroom. Lower humidification.

I did consider this hose:

https://www.cpap.com/productpage/hybern ... -hose.html but I'm rather short on funds right now, because Apria refuses to order the Tap Pap, so I've had to buy two of them out of my own funds, in addition to paying for the new pillows.

I cannot raise the temperature in the bedroom because I will end up not sleeping from the heat. Raising the temperature in the bedroom will result in lying awake all night, drenched in sweat.

My cpap Respironics 560 has climate control, so it automatically adjusts the humidifier to be 70, 80 or 90% reached the mask. Even so, I got rain out in TapPap. But with heated hose the problem disappeared.
You must do what is necessary to solve the problem, because you do not want to go back to the stone age and use someone else mask than TapPap, right?

Actually, if the Headrest were still available, I would probably never have tried the Tap Pap.

[Kiralynx]

When cool weather came to my bedroom I started experiencing the same thing. The heated hose on the PRS1 didn't help, as the humidity can't be set low enough (for me, and it seems for you, something just above pass-over humidification is the preference, not the minimum 70% with heated hose).

Well, my machine is over 5 years old, and has setting 1,2,3,4, and 5, not percentages. I normally run it at 1, as anything else causes rain-out in any pillow mask. I've used the highest setting with full face masks when I have a respiratory infection because the moisture eases my lungs.

I hadn't been doing a daily rinse of my TAP PAP, but after the moisture-in-holes trouble started, I started doing that. And wiping the insides with a cotton swab. That seems to rinse out whatever might help my breath condense into big droplets the next night. It made a big difference most nights, though it did not eliminate the issue completely. Ear plugs also help. If my bedroom seems particularly cool, I've also held the mask in my hands for a moment before putting it on -- that little bit of warmth gets it off to a good start.

I do rinse it daily, but I'll try swabbing it dry with a cotton swab. I had been just letting it air dry as we have a ceiling fan going year round which dries almost anything placed under it. Might also try holding it in front of the bathroom heater fan for a few minutes.

[Bobshouse]

Sorry, didn't read the entire thread, so if someone mentioned this already, kudos to you!

What I did was take an old toothbrush and poked the brissles through the exhalation holes in the tappap during one of its cleanings. Seems after a while they get slightly clogged which causes a whistling sound.

[Kiralynx]

I love my tap pap, but moisture can accumulate. I think some of it due to the unusual shape of the space near the pillows. If I make sure that the entire hose is below my nose, I get a lot less moisture accumulation in the vent holes. I use very little humidification, I think some of the moisture is from my own breath. Using gravity to have it run away from me helps tremendously. Good luck!

I'm trying to picture how you have the hose below the mask without having the hose tug at the mask and pull the mouth piece.

I'm not succeeding.

My hose hangs from a hose manager over my head, with a small loop over the side of the bed, but the hose from the mask goes up over the pillow.

[Kiralynx]

Sorry, didn't read the entire thread, so if someone mentioned this already, kudos to you!

What I did was take an old toothbrush and poked the brissles through the exhalation holes in the tappap during one of its cleanings. Seems after a while they get slightly clogged which causes a whistling sound.

I'll try scrubbing it more vigorously when I do the weekly cleaning. Most of the time, I just rinse it out.

[Kiralynx]

May have found an alternate possibility. I'll test further tonight. I normally wear medium nasal pillows. This afternoon, I decided to catch a nap because I knew I would be up very late tonight. I inserted the LARGE pillows, and they did not fit badly.

No whistling.

I'll see if it works for more than two hours tonight.