Lost Data??? >> ResMed S9 Elite

[Zzzer]

So I'm 3 1/2 months into my CPAP therapy and I have to say, things are going well. My sleep has gotten better (fewer wake-ups) and my Avg. AHI has been below 4 for the last month. However, when I went to upload my SD card data onto Sleepy Head thoday, I noticed I am now missing nearly 5 weeks of data in the middle of my overall usage. Sleepy Head shows my first month and last 5 weeks, but not the 5 weeks in the middle.

My question is, do I have to upload my data to Sleepy Head every so often, or lose it? I.e., does the ResMed wipe the card clean after a certain number of days? Or could I have inadvertently cleared some data myself? By the way, today was the first day I loaded data to SH in about 2 months.

Thanks in advance.

[Pugsy]

do I have to upload my data to Sleepy Head every so often, or lose it?

Yes. The machine starts overwriting some of the detailed data files after 7 nights...and even more of them after 30 nights.
SleepyHead needs all the files for it to be able to do its calculations.
Now if you were to use ResScan...you would have more detailed graphs available but after 30 nights..you again lose the bulk of the detailed graphs and instead only keep the summary usage and general AHI.
ResScan doesn't need all the files (the ones that get written over) but SleepyHead does.

I usually tell people to upload to SH at least once every 7 days to make sure nothing gets lost. While not really lost...SH can't do its calculations without the entire package of data files...so SH will report a big goose egg for those nights...just like if the card is left out of the machine during the night.

You didn't do anything wrong. The SD card is plenty big enough to handle all the data for a long period of time but the S9 machine itself starts overwriting the files for the detailed and hi definition graphs (like flow rate) so that data gets lost if it hasn't been downloaded.
Especially with SleepyHead since it needs those data files to do anything.

[Zzzer]

Thanks Pugsy.

I figured you would know .

[LSAT]

do I have to upload my data to Sleepy Head every so often, or lose it?

Yes. The machine starts overwriting some of the detailed data files after 7 nights...and even more of them after 30 nights.
SleepyHead needs all the files for it to be able to do its calculations.
Now if you were to use ResScan...you would have more detailed graphs available but after 30 nights..you again lose the bulk of the detailed graphs and instead only keep the summary usage and general AHI.
ResScan doesn't need all the files (the ones that get written over) but SleepyHead does.

I usually tell people to upload to SH at least once every 7 days to make sure nothing gets lost. While not really lost...SH can't do its calculations without the entire package of data files...so SH will report a big goose egg for those nights...just like if the card is left out of the machine during the night.

You didn't do anything wrong. The SD card is plenty big enough to handle all the data for a long period of time but the S9 machine itself starts overwriting the files for the detailed and hi definition graphs (like flow rate) so that data gets lost if it hasn't been downloaded.
Especially with SleepyHead since it needs those data files to do anything.

Pugsy......I understand what you are saying, but I have had occasions where I downloaded after 10-14 days without losing data. I generally do it at about 7 days.

[Pugsy]

Pugsy......I understand what you are saying, but I have had occasions where I downloaded after 10-14 days without losing data. I generally do it at about 7 days.

Which software? SleepyHead or ResScan?
Have you checked for the detailed graphs for something that might have been 13 days since last download? I bet you are missing something like the flow rate graph but the other graphs will still be there.
ResScan won't lose all that much and the statistics page will be there but the detailed data graphs will have some flow rate graph missing after 7 nights and the other graphs after 30 days. It gives the appearance of everything being there until you start looking real close.

SleepyHead...if all the detail files aren't there...it can't report anything even if there is partial data present. It's a limitation of SleepyHead.
That's why if we leave the SD card out of the machine over night...and put the SD card back in the machine the next morning...it will write to the SD card the data that it stores on the machine and ResScan will still give some data but SleepyHead will say you didn't use the machine.
Of this I am certain because I have done it personally when I was using the S9 VPAP.

Now the Respironics machines store more files on the machine so we don't lose anything but the flow rate graph if the SD card is still in the computer during the night. It doesn't start overwriting the older files until around the 30 day mark and that's the machine's internal storage.
Once a file gets written to the SD card the machine doesn't mess with it anymore...so I could wait 60 days between downloads and not lose anything.

[idamtnboy]

Pugsy......I understand what you are saying, but I have had occasions where I downloaded after 10-14 days without losing data. I generally do it at about 7 days.

As Pugsy said.

After 7 days you WILL lose the high resolution flow data and high resolution pressure data. It's hardwired into the S9 and there's no way to change it. All other detail data is retained for 30 days. The flow data is graphed in Resscan by default but the pressure data is not. I think SH may ignore the high res pressure data completely. Not seeing the pressure data is no big deal. I've looked at it and I haven't been able to derive any meaningful information from it. The flow data is however, what we all look at to see what exactly is occurring during the night.

[LSAT]

Pugsy......I understand what you are saying, but I have had occasions where I downloaded after 10-14 days without losing data. I generally do it at about 7 days.

Which software? SleepyHead or ResScan?
.

I'm using Sleepyhead. I really only GLANCE at the AHI and Leak data as well as the summary data. I don't pay any attention to the other charts.

[Pugsy]

I'm using Sleepyhead. I really only GLANCE at the AHI and Leak data as well as the summary data. I don't pay any attention to the other charts.

Hmm...and you don't have big goose eggs for entire nights when you go past the 7 night download window.??

I am wondering if SleepyHead's latest version doesn't have to have those detailed files. I sold my S9 VPAP about the time the latest version came out so I don't know if it can now at least do without the hi def files and still be able to calculate AHI and give leak graphs. I know the older version couldn't but since I am sure that you are using the latest version...maybe that version fixed that little problem.
So maybe all is not lost unless someone goes past 30 days between downloads.

I think I will still recommend at least weekly downloads with either software though...just to cover the possibility since we know for a fact that some of the files on the SD card are for sure overwritten at the 8th day and 31st day mark.

[LSAT]

I'm using Sleepyhead. I really only GLANCE at the AHI and Leak data as well as the summary data. I don't pay any attention to the other charts.

Hmm...and you don't have big goose eggs for entire nights when you go past the 7 night download window.??

I am wondering if SleepyHead's latest version doesn't have to have those detailed files. I sold my S9 VPAP about the time the latest version came out so I don't know if it can now at least do without the hi def files and still be able to calculate AHI and give leak graphs. I know the older version couldn't but since I am sure that you are using the latest version...maybe that version fixed that little problem.
So maybe all is not lost unless someone goes past 30 days between downloads.

I think I will still recommend at least weekly downloads with either software though...just to cover the possibility since we know for a fact that some of the files on the SD card are for sure overwritten at the 8th day and 31st day mark.

I went back and checked data and found a few dates where the Flow charts are missing and some where there is just a flat line. I will watch it more closely. I will wait at least 10 days before I download the next time.

[LSAT]

Pugsy....I downloaded my SD card data from 12/6 - 12/15 (10 days) this AM and I can't see anything missing.

[Pugsy]

Pugsy....I downloaded my SD card data from 12/6 - 12/15 (10 days) this AM and I can't see anything missing.

Hmmm. Maybe the latest version of SH isn't dependent on all the data files like the older version was. I know for a fact that it was because I had big goose eggs for nights when SD card was in the computer.
For your 12/6 nights with the SD card being in the computer every night...all I would expect to think would be missing would be the flow rate on the flow rate graph....the fuzzy looking black line.

If you have the fuzzy black line for flow rate...it doesn't compute, the one that shows breath by breath graphs when zoomed in real close. The 6th flow rate should have been overwritten.
Can you post the graphs for 12/6 or 7th flow rate?

Are you willing to try a different experiment? Leave the SD card out of the S9 overnight? Then put it back in the S9 the next morning and let it write what data it has stored to the SD card...then upload to SleepyHead to see if SH finds anything. With the older SH version it wouldn't find anything at all and I got a big goose egg. If SH can now report AHI and summary stuff without the detailed files then you should at least have summary usage and no big goose egg.

[LSAT]

Pugsy....I downloaded my SD card data from 12/6 - 12/15 (10 days) this AM and I can't see anything missing.

Are you willing to try a different experiment? Leave the SD card out of the S9 overnight? Then put it back in the S9 the next morning and let it write what data it has stored to the SD card...then upload to SleepyHead to see if SH finds anything. With the older SH version it wouldn't find anything at all and I got a big goose egg. If SH can now report AHI and summary stuff without the detailed files then you should at least have summary usage and no big goose egg.

I already did that by accident a few months back and there was no daily data for those days. I am using SH version v0.9.3

[Pugsy]

I already did that by accident a few months back and there was no daily data for those days. I am using SH version v0.9.3

Okay, at least that didn't change.

I don't know why you aren't missing the flow rate that is over 7 nights old.
BTW...the actual Flow rate graph will still show up in SH but it normally simply won't have the big fuzzy black line...so it isn't real obvious that it is missing.

If you have it...I have no explanation except that you are indeed special. It doesn't follow what even ResMed says it will do with the data files.

Do you want to try ResScan to see what you get for days last Aug or Sept or Oct?

[LSAT]

Pugsy....I downloaded my SD card data from 12/6 - 12/15 (10 days) this AM and I can't see anything missing.

Hmmm. Maybe the latest version of SH isn't dependent on all the data files like the older version was. I know for a fact that it was because I had big goose eggs for nights when SD card was in the computer.
For your 12/6 nights with the SD card being in the computer every night...all I would expect to think would be missing would be the flow rate on the flow rate graph....the fuzzy looking black line.

If you have the fuzzy black line for flow rate...it doesn't compute, the one that shows breath by breath graphs when zoomed in real close. The 6th flow rate should have been overwritten.
Can you post the graphs for 12/6 or 7th flow rate?

Are you willing to try a different experiment? Leave the SD card out of the S9 overnight? Then put it back in the S9 the next morning and let it write what data it has stored to the SD card...then upload to SleepyHead to see if SH finds anything. With the older SH version it wouldn't find anything at all and I got a big goose egg. If SH can now report AHI and summary stuff without the detailed files then you should at least have summary usage and no big goose egg.

OK...I went back and looked at each graph for 6th and 7th. The mask pressure lower line is gone...Pressure chart was blank..as is the Tidal Vol and Flow Limit. Flow rate chart is missing.

[Pugsy]

OK...I went back and looked at each graph for 6th and 7th. The mask pressure lower line is gone...Pressure chart was blank..as is the Tidal Vol and Flow Limit. Flow rate chart is missing.

Ahhh...that is what I would expect to be absent. Those are the high def file graphs. I totally forgot to tell you to look for mask pressure and the others as a guide. Guess you aren't so special after all.

I think if you went more than 30 days between downloads to SH that you would likely get some goose eggs for nights older than 30 days and this is why someone who gets SH after being on the machine for 2 or 3 months will have missing data for nights older than 30 days.
Even with ResScan...the first download that contains usage for 2 or 3 months will have only the summary usage available for those older dates.