Need moisture but not heat

[BetsyV]

Hi all,

I'm hoping some of you have the same problem I do and can offer some advice.

Lately, I've only been able to wear my mask for a couple of hours each night because after that I wake with a throat so dry and sore that I can't tolerate it. I can't use the heated humidifier because I require a cold environment in order to sleep. Now that my menopause is beginning, this is much worse -- too much heat from any source seems to trigger the night sweats -- but it was bad even before.

I've bumped up the room humidifier as high as it can go without getting significant ice buildup on my windows, as I need to shut them again in the morning. The room is typically between 17 and 19 degrees celsius (about 60-65 fahrenheit, I think); because I live in an apartment, I get a lot of spillover heat from other units so my only means of temperature control is to open the window more. I already sleep in just a thin t-shirt with just a sheet over me, and often a fan blowing across my side of the bed.

I really don't want to rely on sleeping pills every night, and my doctor will not prescribe sufficient quantities of medication to make that a possibility anyway.

Any tips on keeping one's throat comfortably hydrated in a cold environment? Someone else has got to have this problem... my poor husband is not only faced with living in a freezing home, but he has to put up with my incessant coughing too!

Thanks!

[robysue]

BetsyV,

It would help if we knew what machine, humidifier, and mask you were using. It would also help if we knew whether the DME had set you up with a heated hose. (Some do set people up with a heated hose almost by default---assuming that everyone will "obviously" do better using one.)

But for now:

If the DME set you up with a heated hose, the first step is to turn the heated hose completely off and maybe go with a non-heated hose replacement.

Next you can use the humidifier with water in it, but the humidifier set to "off". This is what's known as passover mode. It doesn't add much moisture to the air, but it does add some. Maybe it will add enough to keep your nose happy. At least you can see if it's enough. Some people are even known to put ice cubes in the humidifier tank at the beginning of the night.

You could also see if you can redirect the exhaust flow from your mask so that it hits you somewhere that you enjoy. I sleep in a cold bedroom (60-62F) and have my System One humidifier set to 5 with a non-heated hose. And the exhaust flow from my Swift FX feels like a blast of cold air on my arms or where ever else it hits me. I have to take precautions to protect myself from that cold, cold exhaust air, but then I never much cared for sleeping under a fan.

Next, if you are using a nasal mask that covers the tip of your nose or a full face mask that covers both your nose and your mouth, you may notice the warmth from your own exhalations. Using a cloth mask liner can reduce the "mugginess" of the warm exhaled air before it's blown out the exhaust vents (by being mixed with a whole lotta cool, fresh room air pulled in through the tube.)

Finally, keeping yourself well hydrated during the daytime is also critical. You may also find that using a saline nasal spray and/or a neti pot or sinus rinse bottle shortly before bedtime may also help keep the mucosa in the upper airway happier.

[BlackSpinner]

Lately, I've only been able to wear my mask for a couple of hours each night because after that I wake with a throat so dry and sore that I can't tolerate it. I can't use the heated humidifier because I require a cold environment in order to sleep.

If you have a nasal mask/pillows this means you are mouth breathing.
If not, then you really do need to use the humidifier but you don't have to have it turned all the way up.

[Guest]

It would help if we knew what machine, humidifier, and mask you were using.

I have a Swift LT mask, REMstar Pro M Series. No heated hose; I'll try the humidifier set to off. The ice cubes are a very interesting idea!

You could also see if you can redirect the exhaust flow from your mask so that it hits you somewhere that you enjoy. I sleep in a cold bedroom (60-62F) and have my System One humidifier set to 5 with a non-heated hose.

The exhaust isn't positioned to hit me but the fan works pretty well, and I'm totally impressed that you don't get rainout -- it happens to me in the winter even when I don't use the humidifier!

Finally, keeping yourself well hydrated during the daytime is also critical. You may also find that using a saline nasal spray and/or a neti pot or sinus rinse bottle shortly before bedtime may also help keep the mucosa in the upper airway happier.

I do have saline nasal spray and sinus rinse, although I admit I don't use the rinse every night because it makes me gag horribly and I'm kind of a wimp that way. I know my dehydration is exacerbated by decongestant nasal spray I use every night because of my allergies (it's the only solution I've found, because I'm sensitive to most allergy meds). As for the hydration, it hadn't occurred to me until just now, but this is the first winter I've been on diuretics. That may be having an effect. Hmmm. Maybe I can get off those....

Thanks for all the good ideas!

[Guest]

If you have a nasal mask/pillows this means you are mouth breathing.
If not, then you really do need to use the humidifier but you don't have to have it turned all the way up.

I'm not a mouth breather, unfortunately -- I find it difficult and uncomfortable to breathe through my mouth even when I'm awake and completely congested. My husband confirms that my mouth is shut.

I'm going to try filling the humidifier but not turning it on; maybe that will be enough moisture to do the trick.

Thanks!

[BetsyV]

Oops, the two "guest" posts upthread are both mine; I hadn't realized I wasn't logged in on this computer!

betsyv

[robysue]

You could also see if you can redirect the exhaust flow from your mask so that it hits you somewhere that you enjoy. I sleep in a cold bedroom (60-62F) and have my System One humidifier set to 5 with a non-heated hose.

The exhaust isn't positioned to hit me but the fan works pretty well, and I'm totally impressed that you don't get rainout -- it happens to me in the winter even when I don't use the humidifier!

First, I use the System One humidifer in the "Smart" mode, so it adapts to the cold temps and the relative humidity in an effort to prevent rainout. Next, I keep the hose in a hose cozy from Padacheek. And I run the hose under my covers. I also use a pillow barrel cozy (and on the coldest nights, I'll add a second barrel cozy.) And I sleep with my head under the blankets. So all that helps keep the air in the nasal pillows warm enough to minimize the rainout.

To keep myself cool on those (rare) nights when the menopausal hot flashes kick in, I simply stick my bare feet outside the covers. That's usually enough to keep me cool. But then hot flashes are not a huge issue with me. And prior to menopause, I was always cold.

Finally, keeping yourself well hydrated during the daytime is also critical. You may also find that using a saline nasal spray and/or a neti pot or sinus rinse bottle shortly before bedtime may also help keep the mucosa in the upper airway happier.

I do have saline nasal spray and sinus rinse, although I admit I don't use the rinse every night because it makes me gag horribly and I'm kind of a wimp that way. I know my dehydration is exacerbated by decongestant nasal spray I use every night because of my allergies (it's the only solution I've found, because I'm sensitive to most allergy meds). As for the hydration, it hadn't occurred to me until just now, but this is the first winter I've been on diuretics. That may be having an effect. Hmmm. Maybe I can get off those....

That daily use of a decongestant nasal spray is NOT helping. When used for more than three days, the decongestant nasal sprays start to trigger rebound congestion. In other words, your nose is likely getting congested about an hour or two before you usually squirt the decongestant spray into the nostrils because of rebound congestion---without the decongstant spray, the nose gets congested regardless of whether there are any allergens to trigger congestion. Unfortunately, the only way to deal with rebound congestion is to go through about three to five nights of pretty bad congestion while going off the nasal decongestant spray cold turkey.

[BetsyV]

That daily use of a decongestant nasal spray is NOT helping. When used for more than three days, the decongestant nasal sprays start to trigger rebound congestion. In other words, your nose is likely getting congested about an hour or two before you usually squirt the decongestant spray into the nostrils because of rebound congestion---without the decongstant spray, the nose gets congested regardless of whether there are any allergens to trigger congestion. Unfortunately, the only way to deal with rebound congestion is to go through about three to five nights of pretty bad congestion while going off the nasal decongestant spray cold turkey.

Yes, I've done that a few times, usually when the nosebleeds get too annoying. But ultimately I always go back because any rebound congestion (and there is surprisingly little; I use a half-strength version with moisturizers for long term use) isn't as bad as the untreated allergies. When I was allowed to use steroidal nasal sprays I loved them. Now I can't have those, for other reasons. If anyone knows of an first-generation antihistamine, like chlortrimeton or Benadryl or Tavist, that comes in an 8-12 hour version, I'd definitely give it a try. The manufacturer discontinued the one I had been using a year or two ago.

[Goofproof]

Using ice or cold water in your HH, can cause condensation on the heater element, and failure. Off with normal water temps and cool room is best.I no longer use water in the Hh, and keep ice water to sip, when I wake up which is every two hours, I set the water back down and am asleep soon.

I too require a cold room 63 or less, I use a ac unit in the winter too.

[jaybeem]

My machine...if I turn the Climate Control off...will allow me to adjust the humidity level and the temperature separately. Can you do that with whatever machine you are using? To stop rainout, I still have to use the heated hose and a Pad-a-Cheek hose cover.

I also have bad allergies and congestion. But when I was at the allergist several months ago, she asked me if I knew how to use nose spray. Duh, spray it up my nose. No! She told me to tilt my head down, point the nose spray to the outer corner of my eye that was on the same side, and spray; if it was going down my throat I was doing it wrong. Since I started spraying that way, I have stopped using my steroid nose sprays. Just the saline nose spray half an hour before bed does the job. Who knew?

Hope you find a solution!

[jaybeem]

If anyone knows of an first-generation antihistamine, like chlortrimeton or Benadryl or Tavist, that comes in an 8-12 hour version, I'd definitely give it a try.

According to Wikepedia, chlorpheniraminea is a first-generation antihystamine: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chlorphenamine
Available in 12-hour dosage at: http://www.amazon.com/dp/B003V9OKBC/?ta ... jtgasdpw_b

[zoocrewphoto]

That daily use of a decongestant nasal spray is NOT helping. When used for more than three days, the decongestant nasal sprays start to trigger rebound congestion. In other words, your nose is likely getting congested about an hour or two before you usually squirt the decongestant spray into the nostrils because of rebound congestion---without the decongstant spray, the nose gets congested regardless of whether there are any allergens to trigger congestion. Unfortunately, the only way to deal with rebound congestion is to go through about three to five nights of pretty bad congestion while going off the nasal decongestant spray cold turkey.

Yes, I've done that a few times, usually when the nosebleeds get too annoying. But ultimately I always go back because any rebound congestion (and there is surprisingly little; I use a half-strength version with moisturizers for long term use) isn't as bad as the untreated allergies. When I was allowed to use steroidal nasal sprays I loved them. Now I can't have those, for other reasons. If anyone knows of an first-generation antihistamine, like chlortrimeton or Benadryl or Tavist, that comes in an 8-12 hour version, I'd definitely give it a try. The manufacturer discontinued the one I had been using a year or two ago.

Ask your local pharmacist for a longer acting version of chlortrimeton. My pharmacist said he could order a longer acting version, but the pill is larger, and I have trouble swallowing pills. So, I still use the 4 hour pills.

[StuUnderPressure]

Might be a stupid Question here - but isn't the cold room (via the open window) just getting rid of the humidity added by the Humidifier because you are letting in drier colder air into a room that has more humid air?

Just sounds like a vicious cycle to me.

[Pugsy]

Might be a stupid Question here - but isn't the cold room (via the open window) just getting rid of the humidity added by the Humidifier because you are letting in drier colder air into a room that has more humid air?

Just sounds like a vicious cycle to me.

Depends on if a furnace is being used which will dry the air (or even wood heat which will dry out the air even more) out even more and what the outside humidity might be.
When it rains the outside humidity is about as high as it can get no matter what the temperature happens to be and opening the window will allow more humidity in. That's how come we don't use as much water when it's raining outside and we sleep with the window open.

The xpap machine humidifier is limited to adding moisture to a small amount of air going to the mask.
Unless a whole room humidifier is being used there really isn't going to be much measurable moisture added to the room air by the little cpap humidifier. A tiny bit out the vent holes maybe but far from being enough to change the ambient room humidity ..I would think.

[StuUnderPressure]

Might be a stupid Question here - but isn't the cold room (via the open window) just getting rid of the humidity added by the Humidifier because you are letting in drier colder air into a room that has more humid air?

Just sounds like a vicious cycle to me.

Depends on if a furnace is being used which will dry the air (or even wood heat which will dry out the air even more) out even more and what the outside humidity might be.
When it rains the outside humidity is about as high as it can get no matter what the temperature happens to be and opening the window will allow more humidity in. That's how come we don't use as much water when it's raining outside and we sleep with the window open.

The xpap machine humidifier is limited to adding moisture to a small amount of air going to the mask.
Unless a whole room humidifier is being used there really isn't going to be much measurable moisture added to the room air by the little cpap humidifier. A tiny bit out the vent holes maybe but far from being enough to change the ambient room humidity ..I would think.

Still may be a Stupid Question OR maybe I am just over analyzing this too much or just not explaining my thoughts adequately.

BetsyV IS using a Room Humidifier.
And, since the windows are open, I ASS-U-ME she is not running a furnace or a fireplace.

So, wouldn't the cold outside air have less humidity in it than the air in the bedroom with the Room Humidifier running? Letting that less humid air in will just remove some of the humidity put in the bedroom by the Room Humidifier, won't it?

I live in a very humid climate. Not unusual in the summer to see 90+% Humidity (withOUT rain). Humidity on cold winter days can be 50% or even lower. And cold for us is in the mid 30s.

Cold front just came through last night.
Temperature today is low 50s with 63% Humidity.
When it gets down into the mid 30s tonight, the Humidity will probably be 45 - 55%.
Temperature yesterday was 81 with 87% Humidity (again no rain).