Any device can wake you up at apnea event?

[danielqk]

Do you know any device can wake you up at the beginning of apnea ?

A device simmilar to Zeo with headband and wireless bed side display.
Zeo has SmartWake alarm feature looking for a "natural awakening point"
based on your sleep patterns to decrease the grogginess associated with
waking from Deep sleep but not apnea events

Cpap can detect apnea events with pressure sensor but compliance rate is low
because it is hard to tolerate of high pressure.

In sleep lab, polysomnography is the recording of brain signals and based on
these signal the software will analyze to figure out how many apnea events.
There is no commercial device in the market yet.

[chunkyfrog]

The brain tries to do this when you are suffocating.
This happened all the time before I got my wonderful machine.
I'd rather just prevent the events and get my beauty sleep--(and I need it).

[LSAT]

Since even mild OSA can have 30-40 events a night, would you want to be AWAKENED that many times? A properly set CPAP detects and stops apnea events without waking you.

[DreamDiver]

Do you know any device can wake you up at the beginning of apnea ?

Yeah, that's not going to happen. Here's why.

Apneas are wake events. You're already waking up. It's just that you go right back to sleep.
If you were not on cpap and had an AHI of 30, but you were using a device to fully wake you up at every apnea, you would be fully awoken with an alarm on average every two minutes.
You would likely be repeating studies of REM-sleep deprivation that cause all sorts of problems like hallucinations and additional health decline issues.

I would not recommend full-wake sleep deprivation as a method to cure sleep deprivation caused by sleep apnea.

Just sayin'...

Incidentally, danielqk, why not fill out your equipment profile? It would help us know a little more about how you're getting better sleep.
In the user control panel, click the Profile tab and the "edit equipment" sub tab. It's a snap.

[squid13]

I'd rather just prevent the events and get my beauty sleep--(and I need it).

chunky you look beautiful just the way you are sitting on that leaf.

[Goofproof]

You seem to be missing the point of dealing with sleep apnea, treatment to lessen or prevent apneas, and promote sound sleep, is the goal. Jim

[robysue]

Do you know any device can wake you up at the beginning of apnea ?

You can't detect the apnea at the beginning of the apnea---even with all the equipment strapped to you during a PSG. The apnea can only be detected after it has been going on for 10 seconds or so.

And others have explained how in untreated OSA your body is naturally arousing itself during each apnea event just enough to open up the airway and restart the airflow before falling back asleep. In a person with untreated severe OSA, this cycle of waking up just enough to restart the breathing and falling back asleep immediately is literally repeated hundreds and hundreds of times each night. Fully waking up to fix each and every apnea event is simply not a feasible way to treat OSA because it would cause the OSA sufferer to literally get no sleep at all during the night.

Cpap can detect apnea events with pressure sensor but compliance rate is low
because it is hard to tolerate of high pressure.

CPAP compliance is low for a wide variety of reasons. Tolerating the pressure is only one small problem. The real reason CPAP compliance is so low is that the vast majority of new CPAPers are given bricks that record nothing but compliance data, an ill-fitted mask with instructions to overtighten the head gear if they detect leaks, and are taught nothing more than how to turn on their machine and (possibly) clean the equipment. And then they're told to go make it work without any additional support from the DME or the doctor.

If the PAPer complains? The DME and doc find all kinds of ways of "blaming" the patient: You must be mouth breathing so switch to a FFM (even if there's no leak data and no complaint of leaks). You need to use a chin strap (even if there's no leak data and no complaint of leaks). You need to be patient, these things take time (even if you've been faithfully PAPing for months and months with no improvement). And so on and so forth.

And because the person is using a brick, there's no data to look at. Hence nobody---not the doc, not the DME, not the patient---can ever definitively determine whether the person's problem is leaks (which do exist), insufficient pressure (so the OSA is not well controlled), or perhaps too much pressure (which can lead to mundane problems such as aerophagia and unnecessary wakes as well as clinically significant problems such as pressure-induced central apneas, which if detected lead to a proper diagnosis of complex sleep apnea and a change in type of machine).

In sleep lab, polysomnography is the recording of brain signals and based on
these signal the software will analyze to figure out how many apnea events.
There is no commercial device in the market yet.

It is true that there is no consumer-based product that could be used to diagnose sleep apnea by detecting apneas in a person who is not being treated with a PAP machine.

But the full efficacy data machines do a damn good job of recording the number of apnea-type events in a person using the machine to treat their OSA. It's true that the full efficacy data machines have no EEG, so they can't determine whether the events occur during sleep or not. Hence their AHI's are an estimate of the true treated AHI. But it turns out that the machines' estimated AHIs are pretty good---particularly for measuring long term trends and effectiveness of CPAP at the prescribed pressure for managing the OSA.

[Sir NoddinOff]

Out on the fringes of this forum (from last year). Read and enjoy this classic:

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=80702&st=0&sk=t&sd= ... +apnea+dog

[chunkyfrog]

And for any need, there will be a solution--if you can afford it!
http://www.pawsibilitiesunleashed.org/o ... rvice-dogs

[sleepsecure]

Device? Not yet. Looking at a year for introduction.
"Wakening" is bad. Arousal is better. A non-EEG arousal (lasting <3 seconds) is best.
I have over a hundred research papers that speak to the benefits of initiating a arousal rather than allowing a Apnea self extinguish.

actually you can anticipate an Apnea; changes to the respiratory duty cycle presage the total collapse of the airway.

The issue is whether you cannot/will not use a PAP machine/mask. The other issue is can you tolerate your current level of Excessive Daytime Sleepiness (EDS), fatigue, and or cognitive impairment? 20% of us do not have any of those symptoms.

Are you willing to use a treatment that should lessen the possibility of developing a number of morbidities/chronic diseases (i.e. Stroke, Heart Attacks, Disease, and Arrhythmias, as well as Cancer, Diabetes, Hypertension, Cognitive impairment due to the loss of cerebral grey matter, and non-alcoholic fatty liver disease (NAFLD)), all of which are associated with OSA.

No oral or nasal interfaces, thus avoiding the issues of claustrophobia, entanglement, skin irritation, and air leakage that contribute to the poor compliance levels for PAP devices. It does not lead to facial deformities (as Mandibular Advancement Devices and PAP Masks have been accused of doing), and does not involve surgery. It is easy to use and adapt to.

[zoocrewphoto]

I have an untreated ahi of 79. A device to wake me up for each event would be waking me up more than once a minute part of the night, and pretty much every minute most of the night. Why bother going to bed at all?

I think I would rather use my cpap machine

[robysue]

Device? Not yet. Looking at a year for introduction.
"Wakening" is bad. Arousal is better. A non-EEG arousal (lasting <3 seconds) is best.
I have over a hundred research papers that speak to the benefits of initiating a arousal rather than allowing a Apnea self extinguish.

actually you can anticipate an Apnea; changes to the respiratory duty cycle presage the total collapse of the airway.

This is, in essence, what folks with untreated UARS do all night long: They have little mini arousals (some long enough to be "EEG arousals", but many probably not, every time their brain detects a slight change in the respiratory pattern that is due to changes presaging a airway at risk of collapse before the collapse has reached the stage where it can be called a hypopnea or an apnea. And yet folks with untreated UARS present with many of the same daytime symptoms of excessive daytime sleepiness, fatigue, and cognitive impairment that folks with untreated OSA have.

Turning folks with OSA into folks with UARS as a way of treating the OSA does not seem to be the way to go if you ask me.

[chunkyfrog]

Apnea-caused arousals (wake-ups, whatever) were the rule for me pre-pap. I could (and did) fall asleep anywhere,
sitting, standing, driving, etc, but my apnea always disturbed my sleep--and I usually woke with that horrible oxygen-shorted headache.
Cpap was such a relief for me, that I made it work, even though I was started out with a mask that did not fit and moved my teeth;
--even though my first machine was straight cpap set for at least 2 cm higher than I needed.
I did have nose sores and lines on my cheeks that persisted until noon; but it was a welcome trade-off,
as I was finally getting the REST I really needed. More waking up was NEVER anything I would ever want!

[Chaspsmith]

I have used a CPAP for years. I use a full face mask and never sleep without the CPAP. I have several so that I can conveniently travel with one.
And they work well, as long as I do not move and cause a leak. When that happens I keep sleeping until the apnea kicks in. I never feel the leak. But I know I was stopping breathing because I wake with headache, an elevated heart rate, and I don’t feel rested.
The posts I have seen so far, just tell me why I don't need to wake up. This is no help.
Having a record of what happened doesn’t help. I need to be able to detect when the problem starts so that I can adjust for it.
Help!

[Goofproof]

De-Fib Unit, unless you wait too long. Jim