New to APAP - Need Help Reading Data

General Discussion on any topic relating to CPAP and/or Sleep Apnea.
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WearyOne
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New to APAP - Need Help Reading Data

Post by WearyOne » Sat Oct 12, 2013 11:25 am

I tried out my new-to-me M Series Remstar Auto for most of the night last night. The machine I've been using since I started this journey almost seven years ago is an M Series Remstar CPAP. The APAP has 196 blower hours and my CPAP has 16,073 blower hours. (I only mention this in case the heavier used machine might not be working correctly?)

Would love some opinions on the reading from this APAP, since I had never used one before. I woke up a lot and ended up moving back to my plain CPAP (where I still wake up, but not as much) in another room (had the APAP at the couch; CPAP in my room). Had an episode when I woke up the last time on APAP that I don't know whether was related or not. I was terrified, in a panic, heart racing---stuff that used to only happen before going on cpap at all. Ended up having to take anti-anxiety med to calm down and be able to go back to sleep. Again, can't recall this ever happening except pre-xpap use.

My normal straight CPAP pressure is 8.5; I set the APAP range for 8 to 10.

Not sure what some of this means as I'm used to reading reports from straight CPAP.

1. What does 90% mean at the highest pressure when the number of minutes is less than under the 8.8 pressure?
2. What's the the large vibratory snore (112) at the highest pressure on Daily Events per hour? How does this correlate with the sleep therapy flags that has a much lower number (35)? Snores are usually less than 10 on CPAP, but I was on the couch with this one and might have been in some really odd positions!
3. Why is the average leak so low? On the straight cpap machine it's always around 40. (Innomed Hybrid) Could I have been covering up vent holes in my sleep or something? Never had it this low.

AUTO STATISTICS
Image

DAILY EVENTS PER HOUR
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SLEEP THERAPY FLAGS AND LEAKS
Image

Any thoughts, suggestions, or advice would be welcome!!

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robysue
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Re: New to APAP - Need Help Reading Data

Post by robysue » Sat Oct 12, 2013 12:24 pm

WearyOne wrote: 1. What does 90% mean at the highest pressure when the number of minutes is less than under the 8.8 pressure?
Weary One, you are not reading the labels on the summary pressure numbers very clearly: The posted Encore report says that your mean pressure was 8.8. The posted graph indicates your 90% pressure is about 9.65 cm.

Both mean and 90th percentile (90%) are statistical terms. For a detailed explanation of how these numbers are typically computed and what they mean statistically see my blog entry Average, Median, 95% numbers: A guide to those who don't remember their introductory stats

The mean pressure = 8.8 simply means that if you multiply each (distinct) pressure setting by the time you were at that pressure and add those numbers together and then divide by the total run time, you get 8.8. In other words, the mean pressure number is nothing more than a weighted average.

The 90th percentile )90%) is a statistical term. When Encore says that your 90% pressure is 9.65, that means for 90% of the time the machine was running your pressure was BELOW or AT 9.65 cm. It also means that for 10% of the night your pressure was ABOVE or AT 9.65cm.

As for the numbers in the table: First, you need to understand that the PR machines increase pressure in .5 increments. And in the table, the *.5 pressures are rounded UP, not down. So any time you spent at 9.5 cm of pressure is part of the 10cm box. If you add the times at pressure numbers together you get:

114 + 55 + 73.5 = 242.5 minutes of therapy time.

And 90% of 242.5 is 218.5 minutes. So to compute the 90% pressure level, we look for the 218.5 minutes at LOWEST pressures. We keep a running total:

Time at 8 cm = 114.0 (So the 90% pressure level must be > 8 cm)
Time at 8 + time at 9 cm = 169.0 (So the 90% pressure level must be > 9 cm)
Time at 8 + time at 9 cm + time at 10 cm = 218.5 (So the 90% pressure level must be <= 10 cm)

The actual 90% pressure level shown in the graph is 9.65. The reason why is pretty simple: When the machine increases the pressure from 8.0 to 8.5 cm, the pressure increases linearly. In other words, as the pressure is increased, there is a tiny amount of time spent at 8.1, 8.2, 8.3, and 8.4 cm. And when the Encore program analyzes all of the data, the pressure when the running total of time first equals or exceeds 218.5 minutes is about 9.6 or 9.7 cm.

2. What's the the large vibratory snore (112) at the highest pressure on Daily Events per hour? How does this correlate with the sleep therapy flags that has a much lower number (35)? Snores are usually less than 10 on CPAP, but I was on the couch with this one and might have been in some really odd positions!
The large vibratory score at 10cm is computed using the snore data gathered WHEN the pressure was between 9.5 and 10 cm and then the total of the snore data is divided by the time spent with the pressure between 9.5 and 10 cm.

In looking at the the event table data as well as the "time at pressure data", it appears that you started snoring and the machine quickly raised your pressure to the max setting and you continued to snore. The snore total while you were between 9.5 and 10 cm of pressure can be computed as follows:

VSI at 9.5-10 cm = 112.5 "snores"/hour

==> "total snore total at 9.5-10 cm" = 112.7 * (time in hours at 9.5-10 cm)
==> "total snore total at 9.5-10 cm" = 112.7 * (73.5 minutes/60) hours
==> "total snore total at 9.5-10 cm" = 137 or 138 (due to round off error)

Now almost none of your snoring seems to occur at pressures less than 9.5 cm because as soon as you started snoring the machine increased the pressure all the way up to 10 cm. Hence if we divide the "total snore total at at 9.5-10 cm" by the "time the machine was running" we get a rough, lower bound on the VSI for the whole night. You used the machine for 218.5 minutes, which is 3.64 hours. So the VSI for the whole night must be a bit larger than

137/3.64 = 37.63, which is about what you say your VSI typically runs on the straight CPAP.

3. Why is the average leak so low? On the cpap it's around 40. (Innomed Hybrid)
This one stumps me.

Any thoughts, suggestions, or advice would be welcome!!
If you found the changing pressures of the APAP bothersome, why not simply set the APAP into CPAP mode and use your normal pressure of 8.5cm?

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WearyOne
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Re: New to APAP - Need Help Reading Data

Post by WearyOne » Sat Oct 12, 2013 1:54 pm

I never had a statistics class, which is probably why my confusion. I'm good at a lot of things, but math/statistics is not one of them. I will read the information at the link you provided...thanks!

I don't know if it makes a difference in anything you were posting, but you mentioned a PR machine. I don't have a PR machine. The auto was mentioned in the first paragraph as an M Series Remstar Auto. Again, that might not make any difference, but I know the PRs and M Series are different in some respects

I didn't even go into flow limitations (was diagnosed with mostly RERAs on my original sleep study).

Guess I have a lot of studying to do on the new data I'm getting that I'm not used to and what it all means

The reason I'm trying out the APAP is that since I always feel so bad in the morning (always have) and the AHI numbers are always good, I wanted to be able to check out things that a cpap doesn't track, like flow limitations.

Thanks robysue!

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Pugsy
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Re: New to APAP - Need Help Reading Data

Post by Pugsy » Sat Oct 12, 2013 6:21 pm

WearyOne wrote: I don't know if it makes a difference in anything you were posting, but you mentioned a PR machine. I don't have a PR machine.
Makes no difference. The definitions are the same and the theory behind what RobySue said is the same with either machine in terms of what the numbers mean.

Like RobySue I have no idea why the difference in the average leak numbers. I would expect a little variance because of the slight varying pressures but not that much of a difference but I wouldn't worry about it.

Should you wish to go back to a fixed pressure you might consider setting minimum to maximum in apap mode so that you don't lose Flow limitation scoring. That feature is turned off in cpap mode because it is something that triggers a pressure increase in apap mode. Why they turned off that feature is beyond me but they did and I think if it is worth flagging in one mode it's worth it in another mode...but hey..that's they way they have always done it. So it is what it is.

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