Engineer, and I'm curious if I can help

[renatae]

I think focusing on improvements to nasal pillow masks that will help "mouth-breathers" use them would be a plus for the CPAP community.

That reminds me. Ok slight rant which I hope helps at least one person. When you go to get a mask realize that you are going to a business and the sleep tech wants to get you in and out as fast as possible with as little call back as possible to make the most money. LOTS of times they will put people on a full face mask to start with because it prevents you from calling back saying you open your mouth. Even if you open your mouth before CPAP you may not after you start using it. Getting the air you need through the nose could make your body happy and keep your mouth closed. Baisically, don't just assume you are a mouth breather because they say you are, Nasal or nasal pillows are FAR easier masks to get used to if you can use them and they break seal a lot less. Also, don't just be happy with the mask they want to give you. Every Tech has a favorite "go to" mask that they use 99% of the time if they can. It may not be the right mask for you or the one that you would like the best. ASK to see a couple options.

Sorry, that was left over frustration from when they fit my dad. They were not happy when I went back in with him...

Anyway, pillows masks for mouth breathers like the Mirage Liberty? Or are you looking more for soutions that would allow a mouth breather to use a Pillows mask like the Swift FX or GoLife?

I have found, even though I have always been a mouth breather likely due to a deviated septum, that I can and usually do keep my mouth closed while using the Swift FX. I think it's due to the fact I am getting enough air with the pillows.
At first, I used Chin Up Straps, which are a bandaid type of thing to keep your chin from dropping during sleep. They worked very well. Then I got a bit lazy about all the bedtime preps and tried sleeping without them and found I did very well. One of the tricks others have mentioned is to tuck your tongue right behind your upper teeth. I don't know why that works, but I was already doing that on my own before others mentioned it.

Once in a while I do wake up with extreme gravel mouth, a sure indication I've had my mouth open, but not more often than my hubby, a non mouth breather does.

It's worth a try if a pillow mask is something you'd like to use. I know it was not recommended for people with deviated septum and mouth breathers, but I knew it was my best hope of not being a therapy drop out due to other issues I have.

[renatae]

Make a vent that can be directed any direction the mask wearer wants it to point. Then the ability to lock it into that position.

Both masks I have used vent out at about a 45 degree angle. So if I position the hose down towards my body, the vent exhaust bounces off the bed clothes and my body if I don't encase myself in the sheets. If I position the hose up towards the headboard, the vent exhaust disperses air towards my eyes.

Amen to this! One of my biggest problems is that I have to make sure my hands are under the covers as the vent makes them cold, or else blows on my covers making a loud hissing noise.

[NateS]

enghelp,

I am very grateful you are here, and thanks for starting this thread.

The first two issues that come to my mind, mentioned elsewhere also, are:

1) Mouth breathing. So far, there doesn't really seem to be a good solution for mouth breathing for people unwilling to wear a full face mask. Most chinstraps are rather ineffective. I hope that some research in being done in trying to build some mechanism into masks which will be effective in discouraging or halting mouth breathing.

2) Exhaust venting. There needs to be a way to build more user control into exhaust venting, as to its directions, the location of the vent itself along the hose and perhaps as to diffusion of the stream. There need to be more options in the location of the exhaust on the mask or on the short hose. For example, I am 90% happy with my new Wisp tiny nasal mask with a great seal, but the direction of the exhaust vent seems to assume that everyone will want to route the hose between their eyes and over their head. When I disregard that choice and let my short hose hang down over my chin, the exhaust air blows right into my eye(s).

As I think more about your invitation, I may come up with additional suggestions, and I am sure others will too.

Best wishes, Nate

[mon]

I'd like to see more fabric masks like SleepWeaver. The comfort level of these masks is so superior to any other mask. Surely other companies could look at making masks in fabric. There are no rainouts and no marks left on your face. By far the best mask available at present for me.

[enghelp]

My husband is using a FF mask now and can't find one that fits his face. They seem to fit then when he moves in his sleep they shift and he gets leaks.

What FF mask is he using currently? Quatto is typically seen as the best mask on the market for full face. I also went to sleep show recently where I ran into a lady from PAD A CHEEK who has a very interesting product called a Anti-Leak Strap. I don't know anyone that has tried it personally but the testimonials on the website seem convincing.

Really, I'd love to know how many Quattro users have to see the Chiropractor at least twice a month

OK, I know this is probably just our summer semester statistics schmoozer, but in case the OP is legit, here's what I'd like to see:

• Universal Headgear & clips between the same manufacturer's products
• Hose swivels that actually work
  

and most importantly:

• QC Protocols that force the designers to use and be compliant with their own products for 60 days before market release

I have never heard that hose swivels don't work. you mean at the end of the elbow the swivel doesnt spin? right out of the bag or after a while. and I have to ask because lots of people in our trials don't... you are cleaning the mask right?

[49er]

As someone with a petite to small face, I would like to have the option when I order a mask from an online dealer like cpap.com to have the option of choosing a small size headgear without having to pay an extra fee. Expecting one size headgear to fit all types of heads is absurd in my opinion.

49er

[enghelp]

As someone with a petite to small face, I would like to have the option when I order a mask from an online dealer like cpap.com to have the option of choosing a small size headgear without having to pay an extra fee. Expecting one size headgear to fit all types of heads is absurd in my opinion.

49er

This one I wish I could help more but it falls more into marketing and business than the rest. We know one size headgear won't fit everyone which is why we offer the additional headgear sizes. If you are living in the US Those should be covered by insurance (except for possiblty the first one, Sorry!) to keep inventory down in Sleep Labs and DMEs they ask us to make as few variations a possible which is why the end or the spectrum specific components usually are seperate. I would have hoped that the for wemem masks would be special in some way but they are just pink, you might as well take a sharpie to your current headgear and make it camo and call it "For Hunters." I can tell you though that if you select a youth version of a mask, it typically is adult parts except it uses the small cushion and smaller headgear, that could be a good alternative for adults with smaller heads.

[enghelp]

ok everyone thanks so much! This thread isnt even 24 hours old and already I have a list of issues to help make your lives better

• Adjustable venting direction
  FF Jaw Dropping
  FF sliding up the face
  Pillows masks for mouth breathers
  Custom masks for individual faces
  Pillows that don't wear out over time
  Universal components for a manufacturer such as headhear and clips
  Hose swivels that swivel better
  Half sizes for pillows
  more fabric masks

Keep them comming. realize it takes over a year to deveope a mask but at least this gets the ball rolling and will help everyone in the long run.

[enghelp]

Has everyone heard of the Acurest TrueFIT mask? Has anyone ever tried it? It is a mask developed specifically for your face. Last I heard insurance won't cover it so it is like $500 out of pocket with no replacement part program and I was wondering what people think about that.

[MagsterMile]

Enghelp: I too appreciate you being on the site and asking for opinions and suggestions on how to improve mask fit. I liked an earlier suggestion someone had about having the ability to direct the masks venting to where it is most convenient. That would be especially useful in the winter. I would like to see a material other than silicone and gel be tested for usability. My neighbor and myself, who both use the FFM have a skin condition called 'rosacea'. This is a chronic condition and the silicone and gel materials used in masks are not friendly to the skin. I will try a pad-a-cheek liner down the road when I can be reasonably sure that I have found a permanent mask that I want to stick with. It would be nice to not have to take that extra step for comfort.

[49er]

As someone with a petite to small face, I would like to have the option when I order a mask from an online dealer like cpap.com to have the option of choosing a small size headgear without having to pay an extra fee. Expecting one size headgear to fit all types of heads is absurd in my opinion.

49er

This one I wish I could help more but it falls more into marketing and business than the rest. We know one size headgear won't fit everyone which is why we offer the additional headgear sizes. If you are living in the US Those should be covered by insurance (except for possiblty the first one, Sorry!) to keep inventory down in Sleep Labs and DMEs they ask us to make as few variations a possible which is why the end or the spectrum specific components usually are seperate. I would have hoped that the for wemem masks would be special in some way but they are just pink, you might as well take a sharpie to your current headgear and make it camo and call it "For Hunters." I can tell you though that if you select a youth version of a mask, it typically is adult parts except it uses the small cushion and smaller headgear, that could be a good alternative for adults with smaller heads.

As far as I know, there are no youth full face masks. So I am perplexed by your advice.

I mean no disrespect but your post reminds me of the computer software companies blaming the hardware for bugs in their programs and vice versa. No ones seems to want to take responsibility for improving things that are real issues.

49er

PS - I don't have health insurance

[DiverCTHunter]

• Hose swivels that actually work

I have never heard that hose swivels don't work. you mean at the end of the elbow the swivel doesnt spin? right out of the bag or after a while. and I have to ask because lots of people in our trials don't... you are cleaning the mask right?

This is right out of the bag.

I'm referring to the majority of mask designs where there are two swivels. The go-to mask design has an elbow swivel attached at the mask and another barrel swivel that doubles as an inline connector between the main hose and a "jumper" hose that attaches to the elbow swivel.

The problem is that the barrel design has too large a surface area and and can't rotate freely on it's axis if there's any force on the other axis. The excessive surface area acts like a friction brake as soon as any force is applied to the non-rotating axises. The amount of force needed for the torque along the rotating axis to overcome the braking effect is about the same to pull the thinner rubber of the "jumper" hose away from the swivel, thereby rendering it useless. As the "jumper" hose ages, the problem gets progressively worse.

Here's an example of Resmed's (inline) Hose Swivel Adapter from our host's site. Notice how the friction surface comprises about 3 cm or 2/3 of the total length of the swivel.

The same company's Mirage Quattro Elbow Assembly solved this issue by mating the two swivels at the elbow and placing the quick-disconnect at the join between the two. Note how the friction surface is only 1-2 cm on each swivel axis, and how mating both swivels transfers the torque on one swivel's non-rotating axis to the rotating axis of the other swivel.

Unfortunately, neither swivel parts nor headgear are interchangeable between masks, even within the same manufacturer's products.

[49er]

Has everyone heard of the Acurest TrueFIT mask? Has anyone ever tried it? It is a mask developed specifically for your face. Last I heard insurance won't cover it so it is like $500 out of pocket with no replacement part program and I was wondering what people think about that.

Unfortunately, the website no longer exists so I assume the company has gone out of business. And even when it was operational, the only choices were going to Texas or Australia to get a custom made mask. Not very feasible if you don't live near either place.

49er

[enghelp]

49er,

Your right, I'm sorry. I am here to learn about all the issue and see if I can help in any way I can. I will discuss with my marketing manager about putting out specific assemblies that work for smaller people.

As for the youth FF masks there aren't any that i know of either, I need to get in the habbit of looking at what equipment you are using also and not just reading the post.

[enghelp]

Enghelp: I too appreciate you being on the site and asking for opinions and suggestions on how to improve mask fit. I liked an earlier suggestion someone had about having the ability to direct the masks venting to where it is most convenient. That would be especially useful in the winter. I would like to see a material other than silicone and gel be tested for usability. My neighbor and myself, who both use the FFM have a skin condition called 'rosacea'. This is a chronic condition and the silicone and gel materials used in masks are not friendly to the skin. I will try a pad-a-cheek liner down the road when I can be reasonably sure that I have found a permanent mask that I want to stick with. It would be nice to not have to take that extra step for comfort.

I also have mild rosacea and it is no bueno, expecially when trying to wear CPAP. I will take that note back with me to the rest of the team.