Attorney-urges-Congress-end-sleep-apnea-claims-abuse

[Todzo]

It does work, *IF* people use it. The problem isn't the cpap treatment. The problem is adjusting to the treatment.

I do agree that more people could use CPAP - - - *IF*

They were better educated about CPAP and the process of adjusting to it

Due diligence was used regarding monitoring their CPAP data and therapy effectiveness along the way

The doctors monitoring the therapy knew what to look for and how to respond to it

CPAP was more developed

*BUT* that is not the way things currently are.

As it is currently most people simply cannot use CPAP.

[hyperlexis]

Absolutely -- it's outrageous. +$1B in costs to the taxpayers as a result of this scam, they should definitely put an end to such fraud and abuse of the system. How many other crippled servicemen cant get the services they need because of these folks trying to take advantage of the system to get 'disability' payments. This is wrong on so many levels. Shame on anyone who does this.

Don't believe everything you read. There is no way to scam it. You have to have a sleep study showing apnea and a doc prescribing a xpap. Last time I checked there is no way to fake sleep apnea. Some people have done the at home studies, but if they are positive, then they are required to have a lab study. So, unless there is a lot of service members, doctors, and sleep techs at all the various military hospitals all participating in this cam, it isn't happening.

There are issues with how the VA does ratings for some things. Some are too high, some too low, but this article is rediclous to try to call out one condition and act like they are going to save the government piggy bank. Sleep apnea compensation isn't even a top 10 for VA compensation.

Wait a second here -- the scam is not that someone may have developed sleep apnea, but that: 1.) they developed it as a direct result of an injury received during their military service; and 2.) that they are 'disabled' and deserve disability pay as a result. I have OSA but I am not 'disabled' in that I am unable to perform one or more activities of daily living as a result. Does one having allergies equal disabled? Gastric reflux? Sleep disordered breathing is not a disability in and of itself. I'm sure there are objective measures that physicians use to define disability resulting from abnormal sleep and hypersomnolence, but simply having sleep disordered breathing is not, per se, a disability. A disorder, but not a disability.

[zoocrewphoto]

At the end of the day you or I do not know if even 20% reach good levels of treatment. It may well be that bad!!!

I think it is BS. For many people using cpap puts them in much much better shape. I know within 3 months of starting cpap I was writing better code then I had in years, understanding the stuff I was researching and designing better art. I was speaking French fluently again and getting my Dutch back. In essence I was back to where I had been a decade before.

I am very glad that CPAP works for you BlackSpinner. But I have never found any research that indicates more than 50% were able to use CPAP effectively (more than four hours a night) at the one year mark and most way under that mark.

Apparently it simply does not work for most.

You are confusing the issues.

You are giving a statement about people who were issued a machine and quit using it. That is completely different from whether the machine (properly set and used consistently) gives good therapy.

CPAP does work when the settings are right and the person uses it. People fail for many reasons. Some are in denial and looking for any excuse to quit using it. Some have bricks and don't know that their settings are not providing enough therapy. Some were handed one mask and told to go home and use it, never realizing that they can try other masks. There are lots of reasons for people to quit. Many have to do with doctors and DMEs who don't help. That does not mean that the actual method of therapy (cpap) doesn't work. For those who push pas the struggles, it usually works great.

Don't you realize that when you post that cpap doesn't work for most people, it just encourages all those in denial to simply quit? You are sending them into that category that fails, because you told them to expect failure. Yet most people who come here and get help do find success. Why don't you encourage people to succeed rather than tell them they will fail?

Why do you stay here if you think people are doomed to fail?

[Todzo]

At the end of the day you or I do not know if even 20% reach good levels of treatment. It may well be that bad!!!

I think it is BS. For many people using cpap puts them in much much better shape. I know within 3 months of starting cpap I was writing better code then I had in years, understanding the stuff I was researching and designing better art. I was speaking French fluently again and getting my Dutch back. In essence I was back to where I had been a decade before.

I am very glad that CPAP works for you BlackSpinner. But I have never found any research that indicates more than 50% were able to use CPAP effectively (more than four hours a night) at the one year mark and most way under that mark.

Apparently it simply does not work for most.

You are confusing the issues.

You are giving a statement about people who were issued a machine and quit using it. That is completely different from whether the machine (properly set and used consistently) gives good therapy.

CPAP does work when the settings are right and the person uses it. People fail for many reasons. Some are in denial and looking for any excuse to quit using it. Some have bricks and don't know that their settings are not providing enough therapy. Some were handed one mask and told to go home and use it, never realizing that they can try other masks. There are lots of reasons for people to quit. Many have to do with doctors and DMEs who don't help. That does not mean that the actual method of therapy (cpap) doesn't work. For those who push pas the struggles, it usually works great.

Don't you realize that when you post that cpap doesn't work for most people, it just encourages all those in denial to simply quit? You are sending them into that category that fails, because you told them to expect failure. Yet most people who come here and get help do find success. Why don't you encourage people to succeed rather than tell them they will fail?

Why do you stay here if you think people are doomed to fail?

One way or the other the truth is that most people cannot use CPAP as it is currently administered.

In order to get to where you want to go (in my case all people prevented from OSA or at least well treated for their OSA) you have to admit where we actually are right now.

You do not want to give people false hope for that makes the heart sick.

You do not want to further bad medical practice, that makes people think that what they are doing is OK when it is actually ineffective.

You do need to face reality and start to deal with it.

Most people cannot use CPAP.

We start from where we are.

[hyperlexis]

This makes no sense whatsoever. Who in the world, of any authority, has proclaimed that most people cannot use CPAP? Was this in JAMA or NEJM? Where is there a study showing most people cant use CPAP? Not a one off, but a definitive study.

[zoocrewphoto]

One way or the other the truth is that most people cannot use CPAP as it is currently administered.

Wrong. Many people have trouble when given a brick, no instruction, and no help. Those who receive a good machine and help (or find their way to help like this forum DO succeed). It isn't that they can'y use their machine. The problem is that their machine is necessarily set up for them and needs to be.

In order to get to where you want to go (in my case all people prevented from OSA or at least well treated for their OSA) you have to admit where we actually are right now.

You do not want to give people false hope for that makes the heart sick.

False hope would be to tell them keep at it without making any changes. But that isn't what we do here, is it? We help them figure out the correct settings. We explain things like mask fit, ramp not always helping, etc. We give them REAL suggestions that can take them from failure to success.

Would you rather we tell them all to quit and then see how fast thier health declines? Maybe we should send them to get surgery, or a dental device. Then they can try something that really is a failure.

You do not want to further bad medical practice, that makes people think that what they are doing is OK when it is actually ineffective.

So, we should let them fail because their machine is not giving them therapy, when all they may need is a change in their pressure settings?

You do need to face reality and start to deal with it.

Most people cannot use CPAP.

We start from where we are.

BS. MOst people CAN use it. They just need to make sure that the settings are providing therapy and learn to use it. This therapy has a steep learning curve. That makes it harder to master. It took me 6 weeks to master my mask. By your standards, I should have quit after a week or two and admitted failure. But with advice here and a different size of headgear, I got success.

Why don't you try helping people instead of encouraging failure. Every week, we get new people who are in denial. How many of them quit because they saw one of your posts telling them they will likely fail?

I still don't understand why you are here. Do you use a cpap machine? Do you want people to quit trying? Do you want them to fail?

[Todzo]

This makes no sense whatsoever. Who in the world, of any authority, has proclaimed that most people cannot use CPAP? Was this in JAMA or NEJM? Where is there a study showing most people cant use CPAP? Not a one off, but a definitive study.

Show me any study that says that at a year or greater more than 50% of those medically commended to CPAP therapy are still using it more than four hours per night!

[zoocrewphoto]

This makes no sense whatsoever. Who in the world, of any authority, has proclaimed that most people cannot use CPAP? Was this in JAMA or NEJM? Where is there a study showing most people cant use CPAP? Not a one off, but a definitive study.

Show me any study that says that at a year or greater more than 50% of those medically commended to CPAP therapy are still using it more than four hours per night!

You claimed that most people cannot use their cpap machine. That is different than - won't use their machine.

So, not only do YOU need to prove that only 20% are still using their machine, you also need to prove that they CANNOT.

You made the claim here. You prove it.

Reminder. Lots of people have arrived here unable to make it 4 hours a night. But with time, patience, and good advice, they are now able to use it more than 4 hours a night. Just because a person tells you they can't use a cpap machine, doesn't mean that they truly can't. Only that they haven't been able to YET.

Stop combining every reason for quitting and then blaming it all on the machine.

[Todzo]

This makes no sense whatsoever. Who in the world, of any authority, has proclaimed that most people cannot use CPAP? Was this in JAMA or NEJM? Where is there a study showing most people cant use CPAP? Not a one off, but a definitive study.

Show me any study that says that at a year or greater more than 50% of those medically commended to CPAP therapy are still using it more than four hours per night!

You claimed that most people cannot use their cpap machine. That is different than - won't use their machine.

So, not only do YOU need to prove that only 20% are still using their machine, you also need to prove that they CANNOT.

You made the claim here. You prove it.

Reminder. Lots of people have arrived here unable to make it 4 hours a night. But with time, patience, and good advice, they are now able to use it more than 4 hours a night. Just because a person tells you they can't use a cpap machine, doesn't mean that they truly can't. Only that they haven't been able to YET.

Stop combining every reason for quitting and then blaming it all on the machine.

My challenge still stands!

Most people cannot use CPAP as it is currently administered.

We do not have a good answer for those with Obstructive Sleep Apnea at this time.

[zoocrewphoto]

This makes no sense whatsoever. Who in the world, of any authority, has proclaimed that most people cannot use CPAP? Was this in JAMA or NEJM? Where is there a study showing most people cant use CPAP? Not a one off, but a definitive study.

Show me any study that says that at a year or greater more than 50% of those medically commended to CPAP therapy are still using it more than four hours per night!

You claimed that most people cannot use their cpap machine. That is different than - won't use their machine.

So, not only do YOU need to prove that only 20% are still using their machine, you also need to prove that they CANNOT.

You made the claim here. You prove it.

Reminder. Lots of people have arrived here unable to make it 4 hours a night. But with time, patience, and good advice, they are now able to use it more than 4 hours a night. Just because a person tells you they can't use a cpap machine, doesn't mean that they truly can't. Only that they haven't been able to YET.

Stop combining every reason for quitting and then blaming it all on the machine.

My challenge still stands!

Most people cannot use CPAP as it is currently administered.

We do not have a good answer for those with Obstructive Sleep Apnea at this time.

As it is currently administered. Easy solution. Administer it better.

Okay, so it isn't easy to fire all the DMEs and hire new ones. But seriously, we don't need a new form of treatment. We need a new way to help patients use the treatment.

And most people CAN use it. CANNOT and WILL NOT are not the same.

I can take my pills every day. I am physically capable of doing so, even mentally capable of doing so. But that doesn't mean I will.

[Todzo]

And most people CAN use it. CANNOT and WILL NOT are not the same.

Much "blame the patient" assumption here. We all have had way too much of that. Please stop that!!!!

Again, it does not matter why people stop or use CPAP less or not at all. Either way it does not work for them.

Most people cannot use CPAP therapy as it is currently administered.

We do not have a good answer for Sleep Apnea at this time.

[Zomglawlz]

Does one having allergies equal disabled? Gastric reflux?

As a matter of fact, yes, both are frequently compensated by the VA. Below is a link to the VSRD that is used to rate all veterans. It can easily explain all ailments, the requirements to meet each various %.

http://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/text-idx?c= ... :1.0.1.1.5

Next link is the link for the VA compensation tables that everyone is bickering over. Since people seem to think that the money is such a big deal, you can see that the lower % is a sliding scale.

http://benefits.va.gov/COMPENSATION/res ... comp01.asp

[MagsterMile]

A good friend of mine (we used to work together) has a sister who has been on cpap for 10 years or more. Her sister only uses her machine now for an hour or so each night or if she even uses it for the one hour on a consistent basis. I don't have any other details about her health condition or if she has easy access to a DME. I can't help but wonder if she is being monitored at all. Sometimes people end up being lost in the shuffle or don't even make it to a data base that tracks compliance. A new neighbor of mine has been on cpap for 5 years using the same machine. He hasn't seen a doctor for years about sleep apnea. He just moved here from St Louis and his main concern is what to do if his machine craps out. He's been in this area since last Aug. and has yet to even try to locate a doctor. He did tell me that he does notice a difference if he doesn't use the machine for a few nights. It doesn't sound likes he's being tracked at all.

[BlackSpinner]

And most people CAN use it. CANNOT and WILL NOT are not the same.

Much "blame the patient" assumption here. We all have had way too much of that. Please stop that!!!!

Again, it does not matter why people stop or use CPAP less or not at all. Either way it does not work for them.

Most people cannot use CPAP therapy as it is currently administered.

We do not have a good answer for Sleep Apnea at this time.

This is total BS. Most people I know personally who have a machine use it without the least problem. It helps them, it makes them feel better. I know only two poeple who do not use their machine regularly - one who had their lungs burnt with chemicals and has real issues and one who considers that cleaning the mask makes it too much trouble.

Lets look at diabetes - according to you the fact that some people have a issue with injecting insulin means there is no real effective therapy for it. That the medial system is the blame because people don't take the medications. That people have absolutely no responsibility to take their medication as required if they don't feel like it and it is the systems fault.

Oh and there is a real "gold standard" for OSA, it is a tracheotomy - it has the benefit that once you have it you can't forget it. According to you we should force this on everyone since it is the 100% effective remedy for OSA.

[zoocrewphoto]

And most people CAN use it. CANNOT and WILL NOT are not the same.

Much "blame the patient" assumption here. We all have had way too much of that. Please stop that!!!!

Again, it does not matter why people stop or use CPAP less or not at all. Either way it does not work for them.

Most people cannot use CPAP therapy as it is currently administered.

We do not have a good answer for Sleep Apnea at this time.

I'm not blaming the patient. I blame the doctor and DME.

But YOU are basically telling people to quit because you are telling them it probably won't work for them anyway.


You don't seem to care that while you mean people have trouble using them, you are implying that the machine won't be effective. That is completely different.